How many people inform their insurer that they tow

[Gafferbill]

.

Out of interest, how do you find out if it includes this type of cover BEFORE you take the policy out? I always tend to do mine online.
My current one does include it but I didn't know that until I got the policy document/booklet!

Hi Len_Cuff..........I download the policy document from the company website to see what cover they provide.
I do not do business with a company that does not offer this facility or make their policy readily available.
I am currently with Liverpool Victoria and this is their policy document

 

[Len_Cuff]

It's normally in Section 3 - well it is in mine which is 3rd party cover but I don't see anything in that document referring to a trailer or caravan? Mine clearly states it so which section is yours in?

BTW I'm with Hastings Direct.

 

[intransient1]

While it is not a question that the insurance company asks it is still your responsibility to advise them of anything that has an impact on the vehicle, and towing certainly does that.
If insurance companies asked questions to cover all eventualities the proposal for would be like reading war and peace, and no one would want to fill them in.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Hi Len_Cuff..........I download the policy document from the company website to see what cover they provide.
I do not do business with a company that does not offer this facility or make their policy readily available.
I am currently with Liverpool Victoria and this is their policy document

It's normally in Section 3 - well it is in mine which is 3rd party cover but I don't see anything in that document referring to a trailer or caravan? Mine clearly states it so which section is yours in?

BTW I'm with Hastings Direct.

Very interesting guys as a mater of interest, the LV was the one I used to use that had the 3rd party liability in the policy document, but changed when the premium rocketed.
Hastings is the one I am with now that did not have the wording I required it is them that sent the email.
so Len should have nothing to worry about it's covered

 

[Len_Cuff]

Hi Len_Cuff..........I download the policy document from the company website to see what cover they provide.
I do not do business with a company that does not offer this facility or make their policy readily available.
I am currently with Liverpool Victoria and this is their policy document

It's normally in Section 3 - well it is in mine which is 3rd party cover but I don't see anything in that document referring to a trailer or caravan? Mine clearly states it so which section is yours in?

BTW I'm with Hastings Direct.

Very interesting guys as a mater of interest, the LV was the one I used to use that had the 3rd party liability in the policy document, but changed when the premium rocketed.
Hastings is the one I am with now that did not have the wording I required it is them that sent the email.
so Len should have nothing to worry about it's covered

Colin, bit puzzled now by your reply. Hastings most certainly do have the wording you need in Section 3 - Liability to third parties of the policy handbook. I can see no mention of it in the LV one?

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Len, a quick explaination if I may,
the LV was informed I have a tow bar and tow a van, while getting a quote, when the paperwork arrived the schedual clearly had "towbar fitted" under modifications.
this meant they understood the car had a bar fitted and was used for towing, (therefore must give 3rd party cover for trailers).
however when Hastings, sent the paperwork "nothing" no mention of towbar and under modifications had written "none" I found this unacceptable as I had told them I have a bar fitted and tow a caravan, I then sent them a email stating that I was returning the paperwork because of the omission. their reply was that although it did not say "towbar" on the documents they did know I towed a trailer as it was on the company database and they did not consider a towbar as a modification so wrote none on the schedual, this was fine,
it may well be in the policy handbook somewhere but I prefer it in black and white thank you.

 

[Gafferbill]

Colin, bit puzzled now by your reply. Hastings most certainly do have the wording you need in Section 3 - Liability to third parties of the policy handbook. I can see no mention of it in the LV one?

Section 3 of the Liverpool Victoria policy document does indeed show the Third Party cover provided and it refers to cover provided for Your car as stipulated on the Insurance Certificate.

This is where you need to understand LV's definition of your car for the purposes of the cover provided.....
This is shown on page 3 of their Policy Document under Definitions

I quote.

Your car.......................the insured vehicle shown on your schedule. As well as any vehicle
loaned or hired to you under our Recommended Repairer Service or by
a member of the motor trade while the insured vehicle is in custody
of the motor trade for service, repair or MOT. In section 3 of your
document of car insurance it also includes a trailer, caravan or
broken-down motor vehicle while they’re attached to your car
for towing.

 

[Len_Cuff]

OK thanks, typically they put it in a different place to confuse us mere mortals!!
At least we now know that both LV and Hastings Direct cover this by default.

 

[Len_Cuff]

Hi Len_Cuff..........I download the policy document from the company website to see what cover they provide.
I do not do business with a company that does not offer this facility or make their policy readily available.
I am currently with Liverpool Victoria and this is their policy document

It's normally in Section 3 - well it is in mine which is 3rd party cover but I don't see anything in that document referring to a trailer or caravan? Mine clearly states it so which section is yours in?

BTW I'm with Hastings Direct.

Very interesting guys as a mater of interest, the LV was the one I used to use that had the 3rd party liability in the policy document, but changed when the premium rocketed.
Hastings is the one I am with now that did not have the wording I required it is them that sent the email.
so Len should have nothing to worry about it's covered

Not sure if you meant to type it that way but Hastings Direct certainly DO have it in the policy booklet, it's in Section 3 about the 3rd line down.

 

[Raywood]

Under the RTA the car insurance has to provide cover against third party claims for accidents caused by any trailer being towed and it does not matter if it is in the policy or not. The point you have to remember is that if you are asked if the car has been modified then you should inform them of the tow bar, although almost all insurers do not charge, one or two do. If they do move elsewhere as drivers who tow are statistically safer.
Some insurers including mine ask if it has been modified to improve performance in which case the answer should be no unless you think a tow bar makes it go faster.

 

[Len_Cuff]

Quick update. Had a message left to call Hastings today ref my accident. Instantly thought they were going to a wriggle job on the non informing of the tow bar but it was something else completely. While on the phone I asked the question about tow bars and he said that they DON'T treat them as modifications as they neither add performance or value to the car.

 

[Raywood]

Len, That is Ok with Hastings but not all insurers take that view so you have to declare the tow bar if asked if the car has been modified. If they do not regard it as relevent that is Ok, but if you change insurers remember it is a modification and some insurers do charge. Far better to be safe than sorry with these things.

Quick update. Had a message left to call Hastings today ref my accident. Instantly thought they were going to a wriggle job on the non informing of the tow bar but it was something else completely. While on the phone I asked the question about tow bars and he said that they DON'T treat them as modifications as they neither add performance or value to the car.

 

[Len_Cuff]

Have no fear, I'll be telling them even if I've changed the ashtray if I change insurer

Lady luck shone this time but I won't be taking any chances in the future!!

 

[paws]

A word to the wise.....
When making a "disclosure of information" or other statement, it is sensible to be able to provide documentary evidence that the disclosure or statement was made and its exact form...(should such evidence ever be required in the future...E.G if a claim arises, it could save you a lot of hassle and maybe quite a lot of money, if you can lay your hands, quickly on documents that show that the proper disclosure was made)

The use of "recorded delivery" services where a signature is obtained can be useful, as can obtaining a receipt, in person or by electronic mail, snail mail etc.

It is unwise (to say the least) to rely upon a telephone conversation, even when it is said by reputable insurers that such telephone conversations are recorded, as your primary evidence of having made a sufficient disclosure.

Amalgamations, take overs, management reorganisations, systems and computer failures, and even, dare I say it, the loss or destruction of important material even within a well run insurance company is not totally unknown.

For these reasons (and some others) it is recommended that such documentary evidence is kept under your control and in a place of safety..... hopefully it will never be needed, but if it is then....at least you will have a sporting chance of reinforcing your spoken word, by suitable documentation.

Regards to all
paws

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Paws,

I totally agree , It dots the I's and crossed the t's and every body has evidence.

 

[Raywood]

Prof, The insurers can only turn down a claim for non disclosure if the missing information is relevant and you have failed to answer correctly.
Essentially the test is would a reasonable and competent underwriter have adjusted the premium upwards if the onformation had been given. On the basis that most insurers do not increase the premium then they could not take the point. Those that do would have to show some basis for doing this and I doubt that they could but I would not take the risk.
If they simply ask if the vehicle has been modified then the answer is yes and you should declare it. If they do not ask a question then with the law as it now stands they cannot take the point. The law on disclosure has changed so that only information the insurer asks for has to be declared.
Having worked in insurance all my working life I can say that in general insurers do not go through the claim that thoroughly, the staffing levels are too low for there to be time. These points do usually come out though so you have to be honest or risk the consequences.
Ray

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The problem is many insurers may not show any interest in such things until you try to make a claim, when as stated above they will go through the documents with a fine tooth comb, and if anything arises about which they were not informed, they may turn round and say the policy holder failed to inform the insurer of some relevant fact. Not only could they decline the claim, they could void the policy which has wide ranging implications for obtaining any insurance in the future.

The insurer should always ask an prospective policy holder if there are any other relevant facts that should be considered whilst preparing the proposal. The safest course of action is to inform your insurer you are having a tow bar fitted and you intend to tow, then they can't hold it against you.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof, The insurers can only turn down a claim for non disclosure if the missing information is relevant and you have failed to answer correctly.
Essentially the test is would a reasonable and competent underwriter have adjusted the premium upwards if the onformation had been given. On the basis that most insurers do not increase the premium then they could not take the point. Those that do would have to show some basis for doing this and I doubt that they could but I would not take the risk.
If they simply ask if the vehicle has been modified then the answer is yes and you should declare it. If they do not ask a question then with the law as it now stands they cannot take the point. The law on disclosure has changed so that only information the insurer asks for has to be declared.
Having worked in insurance all my working life I can say that in general insurers do not go through the claim that thoroughly, the staffing levels are too low for there to be time. These points do usually come out though so you have to be honest or risk the consequences.
Ray

I think that's what I said???

 

[Martbo]

We are picking up our Van in 3 weeks and I've informed my Insurer, eSure. They have sent out revised documents showing that I am covered for Towing. There was a £20 Admin Fee but I reckon better safe than sorry.

 

[Dustydog]

We are picking up our Van in 3 weeks and I've informed my Insurer, eSure. They have sent out revised documents showing that I am covered for Towing. There was a £20 Admin Fee but I reckon better safe than sorry.

See section 1A page 10 of your policy booklet. It talks about coverinv you for liabilities arising out of towing trailers caravans etc.
So why have they charged you £20 to issue an endorsement covering something that was already covered? ?

 

[Gafferbill]

My understanding is that all UK Private vehicle insurance policies up to 3.5 tons must by law include Third party Insurance for towing.
Perhaps Raywood could confirm this?
Equally an insurance company can charge what it likes for any service it provides.

 

[Dustydog]

My understanding is that all UK Private vehicle insurance policies up to 3.5 tons must by law include Third party Insurance for towing.
Perhaps Raywood could confirm this?
Equally an insurance company can charge what it likes for any service it provides.

Bill.
The Road Traffic Act makes it mandatory to have third party property and bodilyinjury cover. The problem hhighlighted in this thread is the poor policy drafting by some Insurers. We have already seen that both Aviva and Saga denied they covered the TP risks whilst towing a caravan. After public complaints both did a U turn and confirmed cover was in force.
I cannot understand the legality of an insurer issuing an endorsement and charging for it when the full cover was in place from the start.
A bit like me charging you £20 to tell your name is Bill.

 

[Gafferbill]

Under the RTA the car insurance has to provide cover against third party claims for accidents caused by any trailer being towed and it does not matter if it is in the policy or not. The point you have to remember is that if you are asked if the car has been modified then you should inform them of the tow bar, although almost all insurers do not charge, one or two do. If they do move elsewhere as drivers who tow are statistically safer.

Hi Alan

My post to which you refer was really totally agreeing with Raywood's post above as I think he is factually correct and has stated he has worked in the Insurance industry for over 20 years.

I agree a £20.00 charge for unnecessary paperwork can only be justified as an admin fee for the extra work incurred in providing it.

Martbo says he has insurance with esure ..........well they may cover towing a caravan but they have restrictions that he needs to be aware of......length...height ......weight.

 

[Martbo]

I was aware that the policy "should" have covered towing but I was keen to get my disclosure of the fitment of a towbar (as a modification to the vehicle) and that I will be towing a caravan on paper and the conversation recorded.

They did ask about the size of the van and also ensured that I knew that the actual Van would need separate insurance. Of course I knew that, but at least they left nothing to assumption.

I agree that the Admin Fee is a bit rich but it was a price I was willing to pay to avoid any doubt should a claim arise.

 

[Raywood]

To comply with the RTA policies must cover the drivers liability for the trailer, but this does not mean that if there has been non disclosure that the cover is there. Effectively the RTA requires the insurer to pay out in most circumstances where there is a successful claim against the driver and/or owner irrespective of whether the policy covers it or not. The catch is that if the insurer has to pay out for something not covered or where there has been non disclosure then the insurer can then look to the policyholder to recover their payments.
In the example here if the insurer would not have covered driving with a trailer or would have charged extra then they would have to pay the claim but could then attempt to recover from the policyholder.

 

[TheTravellingRooster]

Hi to you all following this topic. I most definitely tell my insurers that I tow and just in-case they might believe that I periodically fit extra heavy duty bungee cords I also formally inform them that I have towing gear & the associated electrics fitted.
When questioned as to why I wanted it recording and a confirmation letter sent to me clearly showing that not only have they taken notice but that it is recorded in my client file.
I replied that I had no intention of giving them any opportunity to find a reason to not honour any claim in the future and that included whether I was towing or driving solo and also whether I was the victim or the cause of any incident/accident that might result in a claim.
I also pointed out that giving them any reason to delay matters with reams of unnecessary paperwork and potential objections and or prevarication from their underwriters was not on my agenda.