How (s)low can you get?

[ThePlotter]

Here we go again another attack on the motorist where this amazing Government of ours has given all Local Authorities the power to impose 20mph limits on residential roads.Portsmouth is the first and will have 187 miles of road with the absurd speed limit.They claim this will cut down accidents and save lives.They quote 'A pedestrian hit at 20mph is likely to suffer slight injuries,at 30mph they are likely to be severly hurt and at 40mph they are likely to be killed.

Now it might be me but is this argument not arse about face(am I allowed to say that)surely instead of hitting the motorist over and over and no doubt more speed camera revenue (you try driving at 20mph)and maybe even lower limit for caravans,would they not be better employed in educating the pedestrians on how to behave because after all if they do not walk into the road unless it is clear they will not get hit at all.Or am I being to simplistic,I think not.

 

[IanP1]

I'm sorry but I dont agree with you, I am all for the speed reductions in residential area, I dont think they mean all of the main roads but possibly the side streets and roads near parks ect where children play.

We live in one of those areas and have 20mph limits in operation, yes people shouldnt walk out into the road but it does happen, children sometimes forget as do us adults. I for one wouldnt want the guilt on my mind to know I have seriously injured or the worst killed someone because I wanted to get to my destination say 5 or 10 mins faster. I am all for the speed restricions in areas that would benifit from them, my children play out and they are very safe while crossing the roads and they dont play in the street, I have seen vans doing more than 30mph in the 20mph zones near me and have reported them to the company as a matter of concern, they were very appologetic and they took action that day and made sure none of their drivers did it again. Do you need to speed no, have you got gears on your car yes, they are there to allow you to travel at a different range of speed including 20mph or less. Would you be happy to have your child or loved one in one peice and alive or would you prefer to keep residential areas 30mph zone and possibly loose your loved one or have them seriously injured mmm I know what I would prefer im sorry.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Recently in Port Talbot an Air Ambulance had to be brought in to take an elderly gent. to hospital. The reason for this was that the paramedics were afraid to transport him by road ambulance as the speed ramps would jolt his system too much and possibly cause more harm than good.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi ian p

I dont agree either I live in a small estate that intersects 3 major roads in and out of town.

at peak times our estate was used as a rat run between the busy roads, cars vans and even hgv zooming around us, to gain 5mins in a traffic jam, I have seen the estate gridlocked on occasions and not been able to get my car out to go to work.

after a major incident involving two cars and a van (a white one of course) the council after much pressure from residents groups made the main street a 20mph zone (near a playing field) and made two of the roads no entry exept for access.

the rat run dissapeared almost over night and we got some peace at last.

anyone wanting to rush round or is in a hurry should use major roads or motorways and not residetial streets.

 

[RogerL]

Modern planning of housing and commercial areas uses a lot of "D" roads connected by arterial roads with no direct access to premises, specifically to prevent rat-runs - this generally works well with no need to reduce the speed limit below 30.

Older areas often unsuitable for most traffic, however, do get used as rat-runs and need to have some restrictions placed on them. A 20 limit shouldn't cause much delay or inconvenience as drivers shouldn't be spending any longer than necessary in those areas.

There is no magic answer, all motorists are pedestrians when they get out of the car. This is a small, overpopulated island but if you suggest measures to restrict our population growth, you're branded a racist!

 

[ThePlotter]

The point I was trying to make maybe not very well is that the speed of the vehicle is held to be the reason for the problem relating to the severity of the injuries however you cannot deny that if pedestrians took more care then they would not get hit by a car at 20mph or 40mph.

When I was at school(in the days of the dinosaurs) we were taught about road safety and parents took a part and ensured that children new how to behave,yes accidents still happened and then speed limits were often greater or non existent and cars more able to speed as there were less cars on the road.

I just feel it is the thin end of the wedge and not based on reliable evidence or any evidence at all,next thing apart from the 20mph limit in your street combined with the compulsory speed humps will be for the LA to block off roads to traffic altogether.We seem to want to go backwards and not forwards.

 

[BobT_5041460]

They adopted this in Aberdeen earlier this year. The whole of the city centre has a 20mph limit. Bit of a joke really as there is so much traffic in the city centre it is impossible to reach 20mph anyway.

 

[ajmacintosh]

Any speed restrictions or traffic calming measures that can save lives have to be a good thing. never mind how much it inconveniences the motorist. As for the comments made by colin(bridgend)regarding Port Talbot, I assume he was refering to the Sandfields estate. living locally, I remember the days of the Boy Racers on this estate and the maniac speeds some of them reached. speak to the residents of that estate and i bet the vast majority would say it was the best thing that could have happened.

Andrew (Maesteg)

 

[ThePlotter]

Sorry I am not trying to be controversial but I am not sure you see my point which is no matter what speed limit you impose unless you get to the root of the problem it will make no difference.The problem is as I said before pedestrians walking in front of cars if cars were travelling at 60mph nobody would get injured if you dont walk into the road when cars are coming.Why blame and penalize the motorist and not the cause of the problem,why not be like the states and ticket jay walkers.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

If they were to put a speed limit of 20mph on my Road I would welcome it with open arms, if it were to save just one Childs life, or drastically reduce injuries it would be well worth the effort. Tests have proven that if you hit a child head on at around 20mph they stand a good chance of recovery, at 30mph there head is thrown that far back it normally results in a broken neck, or as one test showed, it severed the head completely off (simulated test dummy) and don't forget young children are no different in this Day and age as they were 40yrs ago, pretty much no road sense at all, game of football in the street, and all of a sudden there David Beckham a million miles removed from the dangers of road traffic and invincible. Just take a look around next time your out with your caravan, at the speed some of the nerds drive around the site at, and I'm afraid to say they are no longer in the minority, the ones that take there time looking out for children playing, or running out in to the road, at a safe pace, are very few and far between, my wife sums it up by saying : show them a straight stretch of road, be it a motorway, side street, or a road round a caravan park, and some drivers have to travel down it as quick as they can, why???

Allan & Gill.

 

[ThePlotter]

I repeat at 20mph slight injury,30mph severe injury,40mph dead the secret is dont walk inthe road and then none of these figures apply.

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Plotter, explain your theory to a young child, or the elderly person who's sight and judgment is impaired, or someone's pet, don't forget that when you get behind the wheel of your car you have a duty of care for other road users be they pedestrians or otherwise, yes in an ideal world they would not walk out in to the road, Blair would not have joined forces with bush, and invaded Iraq, but unfortunately we are in the real world and mistakes happen it's called human nature, how many times have we herd people say "if only" lets try and compensate for other peoples errors by cutting our speed, and don't forget we are talking about "Residential areas" that are full of hazards .

Allan & Gill.

 

[will2]

Around Wigan we have 20 mph restrictions near schools,so its just a case of a few hundred yards either side of the school, I think this is ok as children can easily get distracted and walk into the road.

Will

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Andrew it was on the Sandfields Estate. I drove through there a couple of weeks ago and it was a nightmare. There are so many sleeping policemen it is ridiculous. I do think on that estate they have gone over the top. I remember the estate as a child as I had friends living in Sunny Road, Dalton Road, Dalton Close and Ruskin Avenue. It was a pleasure to go down there in those days - cycled from Pentyla via Water Street and Victoria Road. When I drove around the estate it did not stop speeding motor bikes as they were weaving through the traffic calming humps.

 

[Alex_374296729]

I don't have a problem with these speed limits. But where is individual responsibility in all this. Drive around any town centre and you will see people of all ages (though mostly the young) aimlessly crossing the road within feet of a crossing. Today I was approaching a crossing at about 2 mph when a youth walked straight in front of me; he saw the car but honestly didn't give a sh**. The attitude was hit me if you dare.

The second point is the number of people with headphones on who are oblivious to any presence.

Is it just have a go at the motorist, easy to blame ...

 

[ThePlotter]

Alex,I knew somebody would see logic.

 

[ajmacintosh]

Colin, I agree, the Sandfeilds Est is a nightmare to drive through; I try to avoid it if at all possible (I guess thats the idea). however, i would say that when you were a child, there was probably much less of a traffic flow through the Estate. As for the speeding motorcycles, i cant comment on that because i havent seen them. but thats a good point.

Andrew (Maesteg)

 

[Countrylass]

They adopted this in Aberdeen earlier this year. The whole of the city centre has a 20mph limit. Bit of a joke really as there is so much traffic in the city centre it is impossible to reach 20mph anyway.

Bob

Wrong, the buses seem to manage to get over 20mph whatever peril this puts passengers in!

A

 

[SteveW77]

Why don't we just go the whole hog and go back to a man ( sorry Person ) walking in front with a red flag. People should take responsibility for their actions as individuals, whether drivers or pedestrians. You cannot legislate for all the potential dangers that people face in this ever more crowed and consequently more dangerous world

Steve w

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Steve you are correct in what you say regarding each has a duty and responsibilty to one and another. However if we could achieve this it would be Utopia but unfortunately there will always be the irresponsible idiot who will abuse this duty and expect to be the goody goody whilst all else are wrong. It is these minority groups in all walks of life who create the problems for the majority and then we all end up as the evil majority.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

There was case in south Wales this week where a 51 year old headmaster of a junior school has been sent to prison for just over a year for causing injury by dangerous driving. He drove head on in a Subaru Impreza at over 120mph into a Fiesta. The other driver was hospitalised for many months and is now confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. Apparantly the Subaru was covered in go faster stickers and tarted up like a boy-racer car. The judge sentencing the driver said that the way the car was fitted out with stickers, etc. and the evidence from eye witnesses it was an accident waiting to happen and that at his age and with his responsibilities he should have known better. In my opinion the sentence was too leanient he should have been locked up for far longer.

 

[Robert_374242026]

So there i was keeping to the speed limit and behind me were lots of vehicles, when one of them overtook me on hatched lines with his horn going then proceeds to cut me up to the point of evasive action by me.I noticed he had children on board and with much hand waving off he went, couple of miles later at a roundabout his was the car in front of us. what was the point.

 

[joeby]

Its not just on the highway ,you get dangerouse driving ,i was nearly hit yesterday in B&Q car park by a person cutting through the car bays ,instead of using the marked road ,doing triple the speed limit ,also i was at Hurn Lane CC site a few weeks ago ,sitting out side the van sunning my self ,when i saw a delivery driver speeding around the site ,then i saw 2 camper vans driving the wrong way around ,nobody come out of the reception ,and that was just in few hours

 

[GeorgeB]

I've read this thread with interest, but i would pose the following question..............

Should the debate be; how do we seperate the traffic from the pedestrians and not how low can we set a speed limit?

The problems start with most of our towns & cities were developed long before the automobile was even thought of, when nearly all transport (by horse & cart) was done at walking pace, but even then there were fatalities.

Should we not now be designing all "new build estates" to be traffic seperation zones, i.e. access only.

What do you think?

 

[Robert_374242026]

I've read this thread with interest, but i would pose the following question..............

Should the debate be; how do we seperate the traffic from the pedestrians and not how low can we set a speed limit?

The problems start with most of our towns & cities were developed long before the automobile was even thought of, when nearly all transport (by horse & cart) was done at walking pace, but even then there were fatalities.

Should we not now be designing all "new build estates" to be traffic seperation zones, i.e. access only.

What do you think?

Of course your comment has been taken up for a few years now especially in town centres where roads have been blocked off and made into pedestrian way's only.Ilive on a steep hill and even emergancey vehicles come down far to fast to stop in time , the police have once or twice put up the rader thing but for a 30mph area its solved nothing