Nice one sparkes! I'll ask the man when I see him.May be a long time tho'. LPG cars don't need to be serviced very often!
Emmerson
Remember that is only the engine that can go longer without a service. the rest still wears as normal.
LPG is a great alternative to petrol, can even be fitted to generators now. Me, I will carry on with a derv and 36-40p per litre. Great having a "all use" fuel card as a perk of my job!
Steve
Remember that is only the engine that can go longer without a service. the rest still wears as normal.
LPG is a great alternative to petrol, can even be fitted to generators now. Me, I will carry on with a derv and 36-40p per litre. Great having a "all use" fuel card as a perk of my job!
Steve
Hi Lol,
You asked "Can we grow enough crops to make bio-diesel a fuel ..." In the strict terms of how bio-diesel is defined (vegetable oil chemically processed into FAME), very probably not.
There is enough "surplus" vegetable oil to allow a 5% mix with pump diesel throughout Europe. And approximately enough "surplus" alcohol to add 5% of alcohol into petrol, but this alcohol would be better used making the ester part of the bio-diesel FAME - simply because a diesel engine is more efficient than spark ignition.
But, if the Shell "synthesised diesel" pilot plant in Germany is successful in economic terms then this could be a solution.
Will this process ever be used to make petrol? It could but probably won't, it would use additional energy at the refinery for the further processing, and spark ignition engines (petrol, CNG, LPG) are less efficient than diesel - 25% of the energy in petrol goes into movement as opposed to 33% with diesel.
It makes sense to follow the most efficient route - and today this means diesel - but it would be great if newer or different engine technologies could push engine efficiency towards 50%.
North Sea Oil:
The original discoveries are all in "depletion", which means that they are down to the last 5% or 10% of capacity.
Newer fields have been discovered and are in production, but the UK is now an importer of oil.
Coal:
Probably yes, in the very early 80's I remember visiting a research station somewhere around Edinburgh, and for some reason I think it was operated by the Gas industry, that was researching the production of petrol from coal. It was successful, but the price of crude oil dropped enormously and I think the station closed down.
Robert
You asked "Can we grow enough crops to make bio-diesel a fuel ..." In the strict terms of how bio-diesel is defined (vegetable oil chemically processed into FAME), very probably not.
There is enough "surplus" vegetable oil to allow a 5% mix with pump diesel throughout Europe. And approximately enough "surplus" alcohol to add 5% of alcohol into petrol, but this alcohol would be better used making the ester part of the bio-diesel FAME - simply because a diesel engine is more efficient than spark ignition.
But, if the Shell "synthesised diesel" pilot plant in Germany is successful in economic terms then this could be a solution.
Will this process ever be used to make petrol? It could but probably won't, it would use additional energy at the refinery for the further processing, and spark ignition engines (petrol, CNG, LPG) are less efficient than diesel - 25% of the energy in petrol goes into movement as opposed to 33% with diesel.
It makes sense to follow the most efficient route - and today this means diesel - but it would be great if newer or different engine technologies could push engine efficiency towards 50%.
North Sea Oil:
The original discoveries are all in "depletion", which means that they are down to the last 5% or 10% of capacity.
Newer fields have been discovered and are in production, but the UK is now an importer of oil.
Coal:
Probably yes, in the very early 80's I remember visiting a research station somewhere around Edinburgh, and for some reason I think it was operated by the Gas industry, that was researching the production of petrol from coal. It was successful, but the price of crude oil dropped enormously and I think the station closed down.
Robert
For the "unbelievers" out there - here's another reference source that gives a non-techy overview of the benefits of LPG.
http://www.channel4.com/4car/buying-guide/advice/lpg-yourquestionsanswered
And they also say it is high octane!! In fact their reference souce - Tickfords quote it as being 105 !! "Better than the old 5 Star".
Come on Rob - if it really is only 90 there must be some documentation to that effect?
http://www.channel4.com/4car/buying-guide/advice/lpg-yourquestionsanswered
And they also say it is high octane!! In fact their reference souce - Tickfords quote it as being 105 !! "Better than the old 5 Star".
Come on Rob - if it really is only 90 there must be some documentation to that effect?
Rob - South Africa during the aparthied years when sanctions applied was quite successful at making fueloil etc from coal.
They had several Sasoil plants operating - not economic when the embargo ceased but it can be done.
Thanks Rob, that has filled in a few blanks. I thought that with the over production of some crops there might be room to grow a larger slice of our fuel. Seems farmers subsidies get paid on the fact that they are capable of growing crops, just thought that if there was the market for it, a more substantial proportion could be used for bio.
Just to add a few points on this topic.
The original and mostly large North Sea oilfields are indeed in decline, however, this decline has been offset by newer smaller fields being discovered and greater technology to extract remaining oil. The industry expects to get only about 35% of the the total reserves from a current field. The UK is still an exporter of oil but it must be noted that a lot of this is due to the fact that North Sea crude is a very light crude and although excellent for fuel is poor for use in industrial purposes. So a lot of light crude is 'swopped' for heavier crude from the Middle East, for industry. Gas, which mostly comes from the southern North Sea is in decline, but it should be remembered that a lot of gas was 'sold' to Europe in past years, for revenues by the Government. The current shortfall in gas is politically created by certain parties in Europe, rather than any physical shortfall. The Offshore industry still expects to be producing 1.5 - 2 million barrels of oil per day by 2020, if...and it is a big if, the government allows the industry to develop profitably. The recent tax raid will not help our future in this respect. Global Companies will happily walk away, and come back to 'play' another day. So the supply of the raw material for both petrol and diesel is potentially still in good supply. I quote the following taken from UKOOA sources.
The original and mostly large North Sea oilfields are indeed in decline, however, this decline has been offset by newer smaller fields being discovered and greater technology to extract remaining oil. The industry expects to get only about 35% of the the total reserves from a current field. The UK is still an exporter of oil but it must be noted that a lot of this is due to the fact that North Sea crude is a very light crude and although excellent for fuel is poor for use in industrial purposes. So a lot of light crude is 'swopped' for heavier crude from the Middle East, for industry. Gas, which mostly comes from the southern North Sea is in decline, but it should be remembered that a lot of gas was 'sold' to Europe in past years, for revenues by the Government. The current shortfall in gas is politically created by certain parties in Europe, rather than any physical shortfall. The Offshore industry still expects to be producing 1.5 - 2 million barrels of oil per day by 2020, if...and it is a big if, the government allows the industry to develop profitably. The recent tax raid will not help our future in this respect. Global Companies will happily walk away, and come back to 'play' another day. So the supply of the raw material for both petrol and diesel is potentially still in good supply. I quote the following taken from UKOOA sources.
best coment of the year, chuck a prawn on for me mateJust a question? Can you get a bbq connector fitted to the car?
MH...
One thing that has been troubling me for the last couple of days was the view that some people prefer to use information gleaned of the net or "read it in a magazine" than take it from people who have studied their subject because it performs part of daily life.
Unless they've already been frightened off we have (on the forum) contributions by employees from would class companies (in their field) such as Ricardo and research chemists who clearly have invested in themselves because of an interest in the subject and the want that drives some of us to understand our subject more. I think and I could be wrong but you don't do a BSc in chemistry because you're guaranteed to earn 30k graduation.
For me; my parents and I invested a lot in me to gain qualifications and training that has given me a lot of pleasure. Only at one employer briefly was my job a "a chore" moreover I like many others be they in teaching, accountancy the law etc have invested in CPD - Continuous Professional Development. So what I read and trained for 10 years ago isn't out of date but that it forms a baseline of knowledge that I've built on.
I gone on long enough probably only a few will bother to read this (but it's important to me and my family) I'll leave you with one thought -- do you say "I think I've suffered a mild heart attack because I've read it on the net or do you go to a doctor and he use his ability and that of others to make a correct diagnosis"
I thought it would cost a few hundred pounds at least to set up a website - you can set them up with a free domain, hosting and even a link form Yahoo for 99P - what price is the truth
Unless they've already been frightened off we have (on the forum) contributions by employees from would class companies (in their field) such as Ricardo and research chemists who clearly have invested in themselves because of an interest in the subject and the want that drives some of us to understand our subject more. I think and I could be wrong but you don't do a BSc in chemistry because you're guaranteed to earn 30k graduation.
For me; my parents and I invested a lot in me to gain qualifications and training that has given me a lot of pleasure. Only at one employer briefly was my job a "a chore" moreover I like many others be they in teaching, accountancy the law etc have invested in CPD - Continuous Professional Development. So what I read and trained for 10 years ago isn't out of date but that it forms a baseline of knowledge that I've built on.
I gone on long enough probably only a few will bother to read this (but it's important to me and my family) I'll leave you with one thought -- do you say "I think I've suffered a mild heart attack because I've read it on the net or do you go to a doctor and he use his ability and that of others to make a correct diagnosis"
I thought it would cost a few hundred pounds at least to set up a website - you can set them up with a free domain, hosting and even a link form Yahoo for 99P - what price is the truth
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=217896
I thick this would do me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark
I thick this would do me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark
With the greatest of respect. We only know these people are employees etc, because they say so. They have exactly the same credentials as web sites etc.
Monkey,
I am sorry but I for one, do not understand the point you are trying to make. Throughout the history of our civilisation the main source of information has been the written word, usually in books. (the original tablets of stone were too heavy!) The advent of the Internet has in many ways expanded the availability of much of this knowledge to people who might not otherwise have reason, or the desire to look at it. I do however, accept that a lot of the information on the Net is opinionated, but you can say exactly the same thing of information handed over verbally, regardless of the qualifications of the author. Otherwise we would all believe our Governments totally, wouldn't we?
Magazine articles will naturally reflect the viewpoint of the contributor, but in technical type magazines such as caravan magazines, there has to be certain factual base or the magazine would rapidly go out of business. In addition, it has to be accepted that as newer information is released, what may have been deemed correct at time of publication, may be incorrect subsequently.
Even your local Doctor has gained a large portion of his knowledge from the study of written text. The question could be raised that before you even went to the Doctor how would know a heart attack had actually occurred unless you had studied First Aid, or read a book.
I would like to think most of us are adult enough to recognise that 'just because Jimmy told me, it must be true' is not necessarily the case.
I am sorry but I for one, do not understand the point you are trying to make. Throughout the history of our civilisation the main source of information has been the written word, usually in books. (the original tablets of stone were too heavy!) The advent of the Internet has in many ways expanded the availability of much of this knowledge to people who might not otherwise have reason, or the desire to look at it. I do however, accept that a lot of the information on the Net is opinionated, but you can say exactly the same thing of information handed over verbally, regardless of the qualifications of the author. Otherwise we would all believe our Governments totally, wouldn't we?
Magazine articles will naturally reflect the viewpoint of the contributor, but in technical type magazines such as caravan magazines, there has to be certain factual base or the magazine would rapidly go out of business. In addition, it has to be accepted that as newer information is released, what may have been deemed correct at time of publication, may be incorrect subsequently.
Even your local Doctor has gained a large portion of his knowledge from the study of written text. The question could be raised that before you even went to the Doctor how would know a heart attack had actually occurred unless you had studied First Aid, or read a book.
I would like to think most of us are adult enough to recognise that 'just because Jimmy told me, it must be true' is not necessarily the case.
- Mar 14, 2005
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This thread seems to have radically lost its way! and I am suprised that the Moderator hasn't called you all to book about it.
However whilst we are here - I have sympathy with both camps regarding the validity and value of contributors postings. On Monkey's side, yes I recognise the effort of people who have studied and gained qualifications. But it does not mean that they have the monopoly on valid comment or opinion.
On Scotch Lads side, it is a fact that all recorded information is biased. for example, history books are only written by the victor!
I do not always agree with the opinion of highly qualified people. Just as an example, whilst at college, a lecturer waxed lyrical about a piece of writing. I my opinion it was waste of paper, and what it actually said could have been written more effectively in four sentences. It turned out that the lecturer was on an exchange arrangement with a university and had string of letters after his name. His opinion was of course more important than mine! after all he had written the piece so how dare I question it.
Well we all have our opinions don't we!
However whilst we are here - I have sympathy with both camps regarding the validity and value of contributors postings. On Monkey's side, yes I recognise the effort of people who have studied and gained qualifications. But it does not mean that they have the monopoly on valid comment or opinion.
On Scotch Lads side, it is a fact that all recorded information is biased. for example, history books are only written by the victor!
I do not always agree with the opinion of highly qualified people. Just as an example, whilst at college, a lecturer waxed lyrical about a piece of writing. I my opinion it was waste of paper, and what it actually said could have been written more effectively in four sentences. It turned out that the lecturer was on an exchange arrangement with a university and had string of letters after his name. His opinion was of course more important than mine! after all he had written the piece so how dare I question it.
Well we all have our opinions don't we!
once upon a time there was a man walking across a park with a lion.the centre piece in the park was a sculpture of a man choking the life from a lion.the man pointed this out to the lion,who kindly replied:if lions could sculpt youd see lots of lions choking the life from men.
I cant really believe this thread is still going. It did die a death where it should have stayed but was resurrected again this month.. sigh! Reading the original post I also cant believe anyone even bothered to reply - it was so obviously Stinky / Daventura / Kanga. The nic - SloppyPerformer gave it away without reading the crap thats been repeated in so many threads in here to do with the same (yawnnnnnnn) subject, 4x4s. Please dont rise to their bait and they will give up if they have more than one brain cell (ok I know its debateable with some but we can live in hope). It should be obvious to them that they aren't going to change the opinion of anyone who drives them so why do they carry on? Is it because they are so passionate about their cause? Maybe they are but the overriding reason they keep posting is because it is needling others and they are getting under their skins and that is true from the postings in reply. Unlike Clive I cant call them anti's because I think that is a misused word, all of us are anti something or other as in my case, hunting. After all that piffle might I add they are still entitled to their views, we still do live in a democracy, well at least until the next election ;O) I'm already getting despondent at the thought of another 17 years of Toryism - oops thats another thread heheheh!
Finger on lips now L.B. They are talking about fuel, not 4x4s that in itself is an achievement. Lets not blow it all by mentioning the two dirty words (4x4, Anti) (doh!) and let them get on with it. Quiet now, fingers on lips...
Don't go too hard on it Your Lordship. Isn't it amazing how these threads have become almost a living thing, changing and adapting to the current thought or opinion. It's that flexibility in a forum that can allow for some really interesting debate/discussion if only it's left to mature.
The old LRe forum used to be like that until the magazine turned snotty and told the Mod's that it had to be LR topics or nothing. Killed it really, from a Public Bar - discuss anything sort of place - it became tech/LR only which isn't what people wanted. Doesn't matter now as they closed it eventually anyway, although it is now reborn as LR Addict and is back with most of the old Mod' crew like it used to be.
In my opinion topics like this should just be left to run their course. Yes it drags up the usual old stuff, but it can also bring in new opinions/ideas too.
Just my slant on it.
The old LRe forum used to be like that until the magazine turned snotty and told the Mod's that it had to be LR topics or nothing. Killed it really, from a Public Bar - discuss anything sort of place - it became tech/LR only which isn't what people wanted. Doesn't matter now as they closed it eventually anyway, although it is now reborn as LR Addict and is back with most of the old Mod' crew like it used to be.
In my opinion topics like this should just be left to run their course. Yes it drags up the usual old stuff, but it can also bring in new opinions/ideas too.
Just my slant on it.
Good God, I haven't even posted for 5 days and I still get slagged off by LB!
P.S. NIC = "Network Interface Card". It has nothing to do with username or nicknames.
P.S. NIC = "Network Interface Card". It has nothing to do with username or nicknames.
Pete
You posted that message on the 12th and the previous one on the 10th. Either your maths is off or we have the impersonation problem again.
Mind you, if its the maths, I can now understand why you think all 4x4 are bad on fuel. Hell with figures like that the average ford escort would be doing 12mpg
Steve
You posted that message on the 12th and the previous one on the 10th. Either your maths is off or we have the impersonation problem again.
Mind you, if its the maths, I can now understand why you think all 4x4 are bad on fuel. Hell with figures like that the average ford escort would be doing 12mpg
Steve
Have I done something to upset you Steve? You seem to be chansing me round the forums issuing insults.
lmaaaoooooo I wasn't referring to anyone in particular regarding the brain cells Pete or slagging anyone off, just stating facts but after your gaff regarding your posting dates I think you now fit the cap.... sorry :O(
P.S. NIC ..... Non Intelligent Character heheheh!
P.P.S. Was Steve telling lies in his post or stating fact? The times and dates are there for ALL to see.
P.S. NIC ..... Non Intelligent Character heheheh!
P.P.S. Was Steve telling lies in his post or stating fact? The times and dates are there for ALL to see.
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