Immigration Out Of Control

Jan 19, 2008
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I dont know what the feelings of others are in this forum but the latest figures for immigration fill me with despondency and dread. In 2004 there were 141,000 immigrants to this country. I dont know how many for 2005 but theres a 70,000 backlog waiting. How long can these small islands sustain this amount of economic refugees. How many small cities do we have to build to house them each year. I fear for my grandchildrens future, it looks bleak. I'm just glad I'm the age I am and the life I've had and wouldn't wish to start my life all over again in todays climate.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Lord B. I can understand how you feel but if you were a youngster nowadays you wouldn't know any difference in which to compare the situation. Think back to when your parents and grandparents would say "in my days....." or "I remember...." My father in law reckoned we had put a mill stone around our necks when we had a mortgage for
 
Jul 12, 2005
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The problem we face is not numbers its skill.

Last year 200,000 Skilled professionals migrated from the UK because they can live a better life abroad. These are replaced with 141,000 people who only about 5-10% of which are skilled. Our skill base is reducing thus putting a strain on our resources.

OK by me if they join us on this god forsaken island, but they should be self financing and not be able to claim benefits until they have completed 5 yrs of paying into the system.
 
May 20, 2005
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L B I bet Lord Braykewynde of the celts said the same thing when the Romans came.

and Lord Braykewynde of the Angels when the Normans came.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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My problem is the "fictitious" business plans that were used in many of the old eastern block countries to "fool" the authorities into letting some highly undesirable individuals into the UK.

When "our man" in the Diplomatic corp. blew the whistle he got fired! Then Blunket got caught out and we now supposedly have better controls.

At the other end we are taking people with skills that would probably be better employed in their own country.

But then again - I shall probably sell my house and use the capital to buy a bigger but far cheaper house in France or Spain when I retire. So maybe I shall become an economic immigrant.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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With regards to your remark about upping sticks and moving to Spain or the South of France to live Clive is the scandal with winter heating payments. These people who choose to move and live there are still entitled to receive their
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Yeah but come on LB - the Brits in Australia support our team and my aussie friend still supports the ausies when the tour over here. I have no problem with that.

And incidently if you want a good example of UK "sportsmanship" here in the UK see who the vast majority of those north of the border support when England play France!

It's the same with the Welsh and I know because I married one!

I do not have a problem with anyone from Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa - or wherever! supporting their "Home Nation" - as long as we can all do it and have a good natured laugh and go for a good curry after.

The cricket with the Aussies was a superb example of how it should be done.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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On the winter fuel payment - believe me you would not want it means tested!

The cost of means testing is far more than the total sum distributed!

So if we did decide to means test it - it would mean yet more civil servants, more public sector pay, more public sector pension payments that we all pay for rather than the civil servants themselves.

So far cheaper just to pay it and get 90% of the money to where its due rather than 100% of the money where it is suppossed to go but at a cost of 150%.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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On the winter fuel payment - believe me you would not want it means tested!

The cost of means testing is far more than the total sum distributed!

So if we did decide to means test it - it would mean yet more civil servants, more public sector pay, more public sector pension payments that we all pay for rather than the civil servants themselves.

So far cheaper just to pay it and get 90% of the money to where its due rather than 100% of the money where it is suppossed to go but at a cost of 150%.
Good point Clive
 
Jan 19, 2008
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So on your thinking then Clive most of the supporters at a cricket match in OZ would be supporting England considering a lot originated from here. Clive I'm sorry but you are wrong. You wont find any Aussies who were born there supporting England even if both parents are English and you know that me old cobber. We all know friends, relatives who have emigrated and their kids are Aussies through and through. They have no loyalty to Old Blighty, a country most haven't visited, unless its involving immigrants from other nations such as Greece or more recently those of Arab extraction.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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The point is Clive if they move to live elsewhere especially where they have sunnier climes they should be taken off the list. While we are at it why not pay money into their bank accounts in place of the free bus passes they are missing. Give them the money so they can pay for a Spanish T.V. licence too. Need I go on or do you now understand the point I'm getting at. I'm not blaming those ready to snatch at the money but would prefer to see that money used to increase the payments to those still living here who cant afford to move to the sun. Surely we all have relatives in that situation.
 
May 4, 2005
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Look at it this way, your living in the UK things have gone from bad to worse,the shops have little food and what there is you can't afford as you have no work or earn very little .The only way to look after your family is to up sticks and move to a different country. A country where there are jobs that the native population do not want to do, jobs with long hours and little reward, health service jobs for instance or businesses that require you and your family to work 24/7 and to help you the government of this country will help you until you can support yourself.

Now what are you going to do? Simple you go, and who could blame you.

Lets not blame the true economic migrates to this country they are only doing what any one of us would do to support our families .The only way to stop it happening is to attack the problem at its source by investing in these countries ,creating jobs ,help with farming and stopping wars.

.Or maybe its easier and cheaper just to let them come here.

Brian
 
Mar 14, 2005
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On the first point - I think you have "missed it" - do not doubt that a person born an Aus would stay an Aus.

But are you saying that an Aussie couple who live and have a child in say Bangladesh have to bring that child up as a Bangladeshi rather than an Aus?

Tribalism still exists and even our friends from Wales, Scotland and Ireland who live in England and have families here tend to support the home country.

I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem with the suggestion that just because a second generation Parkistani supports Pakistan in a sport whilst living in the UK somehow makes that individual less of a UK citizen.

Crikey where would that leave the lads from Scotland!!

Sorry but it is not as black and white as you make it.

On the subject of the winter fuel bill - it boils down to cost and nothing said here will alter that. As soon as you start means testing unfairness creeps in. Best to leave it as it is as a simple one off payment to all.

After all where would it end? Do you judge people on their domicile or residency?

What about the retired people that overwinter in Spanish hotels for three months? Absolutely fabulous deals can be had and those that do it say it is great!

But they are not in the UK for the winter so would a means testing have to check who is on holiday?

As I say - giving it to all does mean that some that do not need it - get it.

But any other system will just be an expensive and ludicrous nightmare.
 
May 20, 2005
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L B I bet Lord Braykewynde of the celts said the same thing when the Romans came.

and Lord Braykewynde of the Angels when the Normans came.
That would be Lord Braykewynde of the hells angels aristocrat chapter, same mean bunch but chauffeur driven
 
Jan 19, 2008
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I'm not talking about people who live here, I'm talking about 2nd, 3rd generations. Forget about the English, Welsh and Scots that you keep bringing up as an example, that doesnt hold water. People have moved around internally WITHIN these islands for eons. I'm talking about the mass immigration over the last 50 years. For example a person Pakistani descent wont feel British/English in 100 years time let alone now, their loyalties will lie with Pakistan. Now winter fuel, you summed it up admirably Clive, sod you Jack I'm alright. Thats the problem of society in general today, selfish. In the early post war years at the times of rationing people helped one another and made do with what they had, today its grab what you can with no conscience for others. We will never agree on this subject Clive because I can see we both have different views on whats morally right and wrong. Personally I feel for the poor old pensioner freezing her ass off in her council flat in Smethwick than the poor old pensioner sunning themselves around their pool in Alicante. I can hear your next thought on the subject of why should those who have been thrifty and saved for later life be punished but not all people have high paid jobs to do that. Todays welfare society looks after those who dont want to work and those who dont need it.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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LB - there will always be unfairness in any system.

And yes there has been migration within the Brittish Isles but you cannot dismiss migration here as inconsequential just because it does not fit your idea of what is hapening elswhere.

Migration into the UK and out of the UK has been going on for years. You say the latest figures fill you with dispondancy and dread. Why? Curry is the UK's most popular dish!

And I did not only quote the UK situation. You are saying that anyone born in the UK should somehow automatically be expected to support the UK in sporting events.

I say AGAIN - what about an Aussie couple living in Bangladesh who have a child. Would you seriously expect that couple to demand that whilst they as born Aussies can support the Aussies at cricket, say, but their child being born in Bangaladesh must support Bangaladesh?

It does not work that way. Families migrate, not individuals in general. Family ties will always be stronger.

Cannot be any other way.

BUT, allowing criminals in to speread organised crime I DO have a problem with not what we are talking about here.

As for the Fuel Payment, yes I am sorry for those that do not have a happy retirement. And yes I doubt that ANY of my clients would be in that position as part of my job is to ensure that does not happen.

As for those that do not work - well - it was not that long ago that the dole was payable to a Spannish Bank so that those on the dole would not be inconvenienced.

You paint a good picture of the poor old soul strugling on a pension.

But the picture I see is a happy couple who struggled to pay a mortgage throughout their lives selling a house for a lot of money and either downsizing in the UK or abroad.

Like it or not the old story about the grasshoper and the ants is very true.

BUT I DO NOT hold with those that have been prudent and planned and saved for their retirement, whilst all the time paying the same taxes as everybody else, should be expected to subsidise those who for whatever reason did not.

And if you are trying to lump all these "problems" at the door of the genuine migrant who comes to the UK to drive a bus, or work in our hospitals as a Doctor or cleaner, then you are SO VERY VERY WRONG!
 
Jul 12, 2005
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I like this attitude:

Robin Williams' plan...

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan."

1) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past &present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those "good ole boys", we will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I like this attitude:

Robin Williams' plan...

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan."

1) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past &present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those "good ole boys", we will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "
All that from a singer?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I like this attitude:

Robin Williams' plan...

"I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan."

1) "The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their affairs, past &present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those "good ole boys", we will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.

5) No foreign "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)

8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE...Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?

"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses." She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'you want a piece of me?' "
All that from a comedian?
 
Nov 1, 2005
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I think if an imigrant has nothing to offer this country they should be refused entry. I have no problem with people coming to this country to better themselves and better our country, I do have a problem with imigrants descending on our shores, lured by the promise of a furnished flat and spending money every week. I have friends who through no fault of their own lost their house and were hours away from having their family split up to go into hostels. Their council housing officer told them if they'd been seeking asylum they'd have had a flat no problem. What sort of country do we live in that can welcome thousands who call themselves Mr Singh and pay nothing into this country, but can't house it's own desperate families? And now we're being told that we should be beheaded if we insult Islam. I'm not a racist by any means but it's time Britain was run for the good of the British.
 
Jan 19, 2008
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craig, with the greatest of respect I think you will find most Mr Singh's who come here are educated people who are willing to work and even integrate into society to a certain degree. It's the Mr. Hassans that fit your description. They will never integrate due to their culture/beliefs/religion which conflict greatly with the West. I'm not a racist either craig but it does sadden me to read that by 2016 whites will be in the minority in Birmingham. That will soon be followed by Bradford, Leicester, Luton etc.

The post Steve made is very true although I dont believe in all American international policies. The only exception I would challenge is (3). Replace France with the U.K. welcoming them. France is only a staging post for the Channel hop.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Although throgh UK eyes, France would appear to be the staging post, the problem lies much deeper. By the time they've reached France, they've already passed through several EU countries. Once in the EU, onward travel is so much easier because there are no border controls between countries which are signatories to the Maastricht agreement (the UK is an exception). For that reason, it's vital that the controls, especially along the eastern and southern borders, are tightened up. The new additions to the EU, like Poland etc., need our full support to ensure adequate controls, especially as most of them haven't yet got the technical means and equipment to do the job properly.
 
Dec 16, 2003
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In the USA, if you have no papers or no work permit you are an "Illegal", here you are an assylum seeker or some other lame excuse and let off to dissapear whilst some half baked appeal takes place.

Last week a full term baby was born to parents two days after they arrived on "holiday", according to members of their own ethnic group this is a common practice. The baby gets registered hers so the holiday makers can benefit from our lapse social services and benefits later in the future.

Banks in some areas ask for extra ID when paying in or withdrawing funds. Common practice for certain people to leave the bank and within sight of the establishment swap clothes and re-enter with more benefit money to be paid in complete with another ID. The banks bring in rules to try and stop it whilst powers that be dismiss such stories!

According to people in their own ethnic groups arranged marriage used as a business to provide entrance to this country and health and other benefits to a new partners family back home. Again Common practice but denied by the "PC" brigade as "stories and scaremongering"!

A friend has returned from two years of world travel, on a two hour in terminal stopover in the USA he had full paperwork check and Retina scan and Fingerprints taken, in varius countries he was asked to provide evidence of funds, onward or return travel and evidence of health insurance and place to stay or fuding for accomodation and living.

On two visits to doctors and one to a dentist before he could be seen and treated he was asked to provide proof of insurance and pay, at one detination his passport was held until he returned to settle the bill.

Whilst people in authority know of benefit claimants claiming for housing and other UK social benefits, no one pairs that information with the same "modest earners" and the number of times "they holiday" on expensive flights to their own country of birth. Yet still politico's and the PC brigade deny it is a problem and even ignore council house sales fraud!

Visiting families who trade on lack of english language skills to benefit from expensive NHS treatment is denied,but is common

practice!

Skilled workers emigrating whilst government fails to train unemployed and young school leavers.

Minimum wage that indigenous workers can't live on, but other visitors can,and then still manage to send funds home!

If we want a harmonious society, the authorities should close the loopholes and do the correct checks rather than bow to the cry of prejudice and sweep the problems under the table!
 
Jan 19, 2008
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Awwwwwwwww c'mon cris, these people are only here to better themselves and their relatives back home. Well at least thats what Ive been reading in this thread.

Where I live we have no great influx of immigrants (yet, but they are only 28 miles away) with the exception of farm workers from the former eastern bloc countries and thats a problem in its own right regarding crime.

This week there were 10 people gaoled for dealing in crack/heroin in Hereford. Nine of them were Yardies from Birmingham, three of them illegal immigrants who will be deported after they have served their sentence. The odd one out sentenced was a white local who was using his fortified council flat. It's like a cancer spreading throughout the land.

Isn't it strange that the muslim who was so offended over the cartoons that he dressed as a suicide bomber was also a convicted drug dealer, something that I thought was forbidden in their faith.
 

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