Incorrect Gas locker plate

[Buckman]

The statutory plate in the gas locker should already show the upgraded, maximum potential MTPLM. If it doesn't, as apparently in your case, then the caravan manufacturer has committed an error which should be corrected. Either way, because type approval may be affected, only the manufacturer is authorised to issue an upgrade.
Full details of the requirements relating to statutory plates can be found in The Road Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2020 Schedule 1 Part 4 Item 18 where they refer to 76/114/EEC.



MTPLM most certainly has a standing in law and it is referred to in the same UK regulation that I mentioned above. One can find it in Schedule 1 Part 4 Item 48.

I have read through the legislation mentioned above three times and cannot see any mention of MTPLM?

Item 18 states;

18 Plates (statutory)

The technical provisions of: Directive 76/114/EEC as last amended by Directive 78/507/EEC, and where the vehicle is the subject of a multi stage build a plate is required on completion of each stage as appropriate.

 

[Lutz]

That one may find a different MTPLM on the door label to the one on the statutory plate is not new. This would normally be the case with a caravan that has not been "upgraded" and displays a lower MTPLM on the door label to the one on the statutory plate. This issue has been addressed to the DVSA and they have replied that the powers-that-be will normally accept the figure on the door label. However, this is purely discretionary as the door label has no legal standing and the DVSA have been careful to point out that in the event of conflict it would be up to the courts to decide.
The statutory plate is, after all, the only one recognised in legislation and there are no provisions in legislation for a second plate showing a different value.

 

[Lutz]

I have read through the legislation mentioned above three times and cannot see any mention of MTPLM?

Item 18 states;

18 Plates (statutory)

The technical provisions of: Directive 76/114/EEC as last amended by Directive 78/507/EEC, and where the vehicle is the subject of a multi stage build a plate is required on completion of each stage as appropriate.

I said MTPLM is referred to under The Road Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2020 Schedule 1 Part 4 Item 48 where it refers to Directive 97/27/EC, not Item 18. Item 18 refers only to specific requirements relating to the statutory plate.

 

[otherclive]

I am fairly sure that if the upgrade is an option it is done by the dealer and not the factory. All they do is remove the old sticker and plaster another one on top of it.

No, in my experience the factory updates it’s documentation relating to the caravan and issues new documents plus label to the owner. For my Bailey it came via Chipping Sodbury caravans as I ordered the upgrade through them. For Swift I ordered directly via Swift’s customer sales dept.

 

[Lutz]

Yes, any change to specification, such as MTPLM, must be done by the manufacturer because product liability remains with him.

 

[Ste6t9]

We asked for the upgrade, we received a new sticker and NCC certificate.

However the van was already at the dealer so no change was done there in the gas locker. (I don’t think)

I have contacted both dealer and Bailey and await their replies.

 

[otherclive]

We asked for the upgrade, we received a new sticker and NCC certificate.

However the van was already at the dealer so no change was done there in the gas locker. (I don’t think)

I have contacted both dealer and Bailey and await their replies.

Be interested on what they have to say.

 

[Lutz]

We asked for the upgrade, we received a new sticker and NCC certificate.

However the van was already at the dealer so no change was done there in the gas locker. (I don’t think)

I have contacted both dealer and Bailey and await their replies.

The NCC certificate is not worth the paper it's printed on. It's not an official document and too easily confused with the official type approval certificate which contains all the required information.

 

[Buckman]

No, in my experience the factory updates it’s documentation relating to the caravan and issues new documents plus label to the owner. For my Bailey it came via Chipping Sodbury caravans as I ordered the upgrade through them. For Swift I ordered directly via Swift’s customer sales dept.

However was it sent to the dealer first and then onto you? On both occasions the dealer handled the upgrade and gave us the paperwork which had bene upgraded by the factory. Once with Lunar in 2011 and twice with Elddis. I don't know about other manufactures.

 

[Ste6t9]

When I collected the van, they almost forgot it. When I reminded them, they found an envelope with our name and order number on it.

Inside was the replacement sticker and the NCC certificate.

Therefore I’m wondering if either there was also a replacement gas locker plate which they didn’t fit OR the van was supposed to have one that displayed the potential upgrade max weight of 1800 already.

 

[Lutz]

However was it sent to the dealer first and then onto you? On both occasions the dealer handled the upgrade and gave us the paperwork which had bene upgraded by the factory. Once with Lunar in 2011 and twice with Elddis. I don't know about other manufactures.

In that case the dealer is only acting as an intermediary. He has no input in the design of the product so he cannot be held responsible or liable. Imagine what it would mean if dealers were held responsible for the software cheating of vehicle emissions, for example, instead of the manufacturers.

 

[Lutz]

When I collected the van, they almost forgot it. When I reminded them, they found an envelope with our name and order number on it.

Inside was the replacement sticker and the NCC certificate.

Therefore I’m wondering if either there was also a replacement gas locker plate which they didn’t fit OR the van was supposed to have one that displayed the potential upgrade max weight of 1800 already.

If the caravan was ordered with the "upgrade" and already delivered to the dealer with envelope inside, that begs the question why the manufacturer didn't apply the revised sticker already in the factory. There is abundant evidence that Bailey, in particular, seem to be very sloppy in the way they handle plating of their products. I have read numerous inconsistencies in their plating, suggesting that they don't really understand type approval requirements.

 

[Ste6t9]

If the caravan was ordered with the "upgrade" and already delivered to the dealer with envelope inside, that begs the question why the manufacturer didn't apply the revised sticker already in the factory. There is abundant evidence that Bailey, in particular, seem to be very sloppy in the way they handle plating of their products. I have read numerous inconsistencies in their plating, suggesting that they don't really understand type approval requirements.

Van was not ordered with upgrade. They already had the van on stock. I requested it and they contacted Bailey and got the sticker and certificate.

 

[Lutz]

Anyway, the MTPLM on the statutory plate must agree with the MTPLM shown on the type approval certificate. It would therefore be interesting to know what the type approval certificate, not the NCC certificate, says. If you weren't supplied with the type approval certificate, as is often the case, then you should ask for a copy. You, as the customer, have a right to receive it. In fact, you would need it were you ever to take the caravan permanently out of the country with a need to register it elsewhere.

 

[Buckman]

In that case the dealer is only acting as an intermediary. He has no input in the design of the product so he cannot be held responsible or liable. Imagine what it would mean if dealers were held responsible for the software cheating of vehicle emissions, for example, instead of the manufacturers.

I never indicated at all that the supplier was responsible. However under CRA 2015 they would b e responsible which ever way you look at it. I think you are now confusing things?

 

[Lutz]

I never indicated at all that the supplier was responsible. However under CRA 2015 they would b e responsible which ever way you look at it. I think you are now confusing things?

Not really. Whether you have entered into a contract with the dealer and not the manufacturer has no bearing on the manufacturer's ultimate product liability. If someone were to be injured on account of a design fault it would be the manufacturer and not the dealer who would be hauled to court.

 

[Buckman]

Not really. Whether you have entered into a contract with the dealer and not the manufacturer has no bearing on the manufacturer's ultimate product liability. If someone were to be injured on account of a design fault it would be the manufacturer and not the dealer who would be hauled to court.

I don't agree and the thread is now being side tracked and of no benefit to OP.

 

[Lutz]

I don't agree and the thread is now being side tracked and of no benefit to OP.

I would just like to add the remark that claims resulting out of software cheating of emissions were always against the manufacturer, not the dealer, so why should it be any different if a caravan is not plated according to what the regulations require?

 

[otherclive]

However was it sent to the dealer first and then onto you? On both occasions the dealer handled the upgrade and gave us the paperwork which had bene upgraded by the factory. Once with Lunar in 2011 and twice with Elddis. I don't know about other manufactures.

However was it sent to the dealer first and then onto you? On both occasions the dealer handled the upgrade and gave us the paperwork which had bene upgraded by the factory. Once with Lunar in 2011 and twice with Elddis. I don't know about other manufactures.

Sorry if my post #54 isn’t clear to you. But I said for my Swift I ordered direct from Swift and it came directly to me by post. The Bailey came via the dealer who I ordered it through.

 

[Ste6t9]

So I think my dealer ordered it, but as they had the van already, nothing else was done to it.

 

[Ste6t9]

Here’s the reply from Bailey aftersales

 

[Ste6t9]

This is the text if you can’t see the pic!

“Thank you for attaching a picture of the statutory weight plate within your caravan’s gas locker.

We are pleased to reassure you that all the data displayed on your caravan’s statutory weight plate is in order and has no bearing on whether or not an owner has exercised the option of obtaining a weight plate upgrade.”

 

[otherclive]

This is the text if you can’t see the pic!

“Thank you for attaching a picture of the statutory weight plate within your caravan’s gas locker.

We are pleased to reassure you that all the data displayed on your caravan’s statutory weight plate is in order and has no bearing on whether or not an owner has exercised the option of obtaining a weight plate upgrade.”

Well we can all sleep easier for that targeted reply………. I don’t think.

 

[Ste6t9]

Ridiculous.

Lucklily I also have the dealer following up with Bailey so we’ll see what they come back with.

 

[Ern]

Ridiculous.

Lucklily I also have the dealer following up with Bailey so we’ll see what they come back with.

Does the Dealer agree with your opinion (and this forums opinion)?
Their lack of understanding the legal position is staggering.