Interim report on Polyplastic Window Problems

[Andrew_374383565]

Just finished an exhausting session, replying to nearly 3000 owners who have contacted us from the Caravan Club, this month alone..since July 2009 over 5,200 owners have registered with www.caravanandmotorhomewindowproblems.co.uk

Two major design faults are being highlighted, 1.. delamination/separation of inner and outer window layers accounting for just under 70% , affecting most manufacturers from 1997 to present.

2... Inner and outer window layers rubbing together causing internal marking, accounting for 30% of reports affecting some manufacturers from 2004 to present

Here is a list of manufacturers affected in order of the number of responses, the first five each have reports in the high hundreds....

Burstner

Abbey

Bailey

Lunar

Swift

Coachman

Avondale

Compass

Ace

Sprite

Vanmaster

Sterling

Geist

Eldis

Hymer

Bessacarr

Rapido

Knaus

Fleetwood

Owner responses range from:... no Dealer interest, even after using SOGA,

dealer denial that there is a problem,

dealers gone out of business,

to no replies to correspondence from the dutch manufacturing company or their UK agents..(a number of dealers have told owners to contact Polyplastic and Miriad direct and state they have no liability)

One manufacturer Burstner, has introduced a 4 screw repair to hold their windows together, but the majority of owners are experiencing water ingress and distortion.

Again we have reports of owners on their 4th replacement due to window rubbing.

This is an interim report, based on initial owner responses, we are working on a standard form which will be sent to everyone, who has contacted us, requesting more detail and an emphasis on dealer replies.

Still a long way to go, but progress is being made....thankyou to everyone who has commented on this subject, in the forum...we are always available for unbiased advice...

Regards Andrew

 

[ChristineandAlan]

HI ANDREW,we have a abbey 620 gts bought new 2009,we had problem big window in front rubbing together marking window,we reported it to golden castles caravans cheltenham,they ordered the window ,replaced it asap.no problem, excellent service from them. ALL THE BEST ALAN P/T

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Thanks Alan........well done to golden castles caravans....if only all dealers were so pro-active....regards Andre

 

[Bryan_374461364]

I have just had my third replacement window ordered under warranty by my dealer for the rubbing pane problem. This on a Coachman Pastiche 2009. Dealer has been excellent. He is just as frustrated like I am with the situation. Incidentally I have an email from Miriad confirming that a modified window was made from Oct 2009 for my van. The date of the latest failure is 1004 ie April 2010. This has got some heads scratching.

Bryan

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi Bryan..........From the reports we are getting, I don't think the modified windows are an improvement, Polyplastic are a long way from resolving this design issue.......regards Andrew

 

[chris_374398963]

Hi i have have had what looks like footballs on my front windows

plus lots of condenstaion as well which i never had before

My van is a bailey pagent 2007

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi Chris....please send some photo's of fault to our website and I will advise if you have the problem...regards Andrew

 

[Jennifer_374461363]

We have a February 2008 Sterling and are on our 3rd centre front window now, which after towing some 3000 miles seems to be OK.

It certainly is VERY thick compared to our previous 2 windows.

We have had very good service from Swift, who seem to be on top of this problem, and from our dealer, Duncans of Wishaw.

We were aware that there was a widespread problem due to this forum and others. Those who are not so "internet savvy" seem to be unaware and could be fobbed off by dealers, who should know better.

Good on you for publicising the problems.

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Thankyou Jennifer......its been a tough job getting the message across and is heartening that some dealers are playing ball......regards Andrew

 

[Andrew_374383565]

latest development from Caravan Club Letter........If a manufacturer contacts you direct on a product recall, they are in breach of the "sale of goods act," It is the dealers responsibilty to inform the buyer.........Andrew

 

[David_374581943]

Compass Rallye 524 Front Window.

Bought from Robson's of Wolsingham in Feb this year which had the marking in between the Large front window. My dealer ordered a replacement which duly arrived "delaminated" and a another one was re-ordered. This one arrived and was fitted at the end of June and looked OK. Just returned from a two week holiday and when the van was washed the marking re appeared.

I can only describe it as looking like spoors in between the window on both panels but the markings are identical which might indicate the windows touching but is exactly the same problem as before. I have had to advise my dealer again this morning.

 

[Dustydog]

Andrew

You are doing a great job here but like everything with numbers may I just point out that most of your top 5 offenders are high volume units , thus the frequency of problems will be greater than say Fleetwood.

The chap oposite me the last few weeks had a Bucanneer TA. He has the dreaded window problem. Comparing his with my Wyoming it is very clear the "stiffness or thickness" of window on the Wyoming is far greater than the Bucanneer.

I haave no idea why this is so. Hi is 11 months old, mine 2.5 years.

In your experience and opinion is there a different type of window grade being sent to manufacturers for no apparent reason?

I should add my Wyoming has covered a considerable mileage , a lot at 55mph on motorwars aith no issues.

Is the problem something that manifests itself early on or is a latent defect that appears later in the caravan's life?

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

We bought a new Bailey Senator Vermont one year ago. After reading of the complaints I checked the window after using the van a few times and sure enough, there were the spore like marks that were a mirror image of themselves.

We notified our mobile service engineer who replaced it under warranty in October. After coming home after three weeks away earlier this month I've noticed the replacement has now got the same spore like markings.

I thought that they'd modified the window by making the perspex thicker with a larger gap. If so it ain't working.

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Thankyou to the Lord and Dusty...We are experiencing a lot of owners reporting second , third and forth replacements, due to rub marks, caused by the cavity being reduced in design....Polyplastic in truth, haven't got an answer, they seem to go from one design disaster to another. Some dealers are trying to do the right thing and replace free of charge, but they are in the hands of Polyplastic, who are very difficult to deal with.

Burstner owners are in the worst position, as the manufacturer offered a repair to the delamination problem. Unfortunately the repair just made things worse and because owners dealt direct with Burstner, they have fallen foul of SOGA. Which states that the owner must contact the seller not the manufacturer....this is a right mess, but one that we are working on with our legal partners.

If owners do not want to enter into a dealer wrangle it might be worth looking at Seitz replacements although I must state, that we have no experience of this company or its products

Hopes this helps ... thankyou for all your support and the many other forum members who are contributing to this complicated and very sad saga....Andrew

 

[chris256]

Hi you can add the Xplore range from Elddis to your list with front window problems. I have a Xplore 474 2008 model it was bought in may 2009 the first window went after 3 months the window was replaced this may under warennty now it gone again and is on another claim from miriad just as other folkes have said mirror spotting between the 2 layers

chris

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi..........Glad to here you have a replacement, hopefully it is the mk 3 thicker version. I hope you don't mind me asking, were you contacted by the dealer on this problem, or did you have to request a new window........thankyou for your comments......regards Andrew

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi..........Glad to here you have a replacement, hopefully it is the mk 3 thicker version. I hope you don't mind me asking, were you contacted by the dealer on this problem, or did you have to request a new window........thankyou for your comments......regards Andrew

 

[chris256]

hi no not a thing from the dealer or elddis what happened was some ploker ran into the back of my van and the insurance appointed "the caravan service centre" formaly gailey caravans of four ashes near wolvehampton to do the reairs. i had noticed the faulty window the day before the crash and was going to contact the dealer when i got home. when the caravan service centre came to asses the damage i asked them and they said they could deal with it they contacted elldis but they wernt interested and told them to deal direct with miriad.
i must say the caravan service centre have been great . as it stands now the replacement has failed and the caravan service centre have sent for another repacement.
they have explained to me how these warrenty claims work with miriad.
they have to order a new window from miriad (and pay for it) then they send the faulty one back and miriad decide if they are going to accept the claim. so if they say no i will end up with a big fat bill.
is there any way i can tell if its a mk 3 window
thanks
chris

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi Chis.............a mark three window is made of much thicker plastic and the cavity is much wider than the original......if you go to the Swift forum, there are a few replies on this subject........the problem you have is a manufacturing fault and under no circumstances should you have to pay.........you will probably need to make a fuss, but if you stand your ground and with the assistance of your dealer, you should succeed........please let us know how you get on. Miriad is the UK agent for Polyplastic

best regards Andrew

 

[chris256]

thanks the last one they fitted was as soft as butter just like the origanl and that was only fitted in may this year. it did a run down to the south of france when i noticed that it had failed what i dont understand is why are they sending out window that they know will fail ?
and as my dealer has to pay up front then claim it back when and if miriad decide that its a claim maybe this is why some dealers are relubtant to accept it as a warrenty claim ?

 

[internet]

I am interested in the thread regarding the recall on the windows particularly for Burstner vans. We have a 2000 Burstner and (unfortunately) had the 'fix' done on our windows aty the beginning of November 2010. We now have 3 inches of water in the front window.
Was the front window supposed to have been 'fixed' as the dealer we spoke to let slip that it shouldn't have been?
Since it is only eight weeks since the van was 'fixed' do we have any come back with regard to a replacement window? and whose responsibility is it?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Internet,

In the UK you are entitled to expect any repair to be of merchantable quality - even if it is on a ten year old caravan. If your window is now full of water that certainly suggests the repair may not have been of good enough quality, BUT it gets more difficult with age to readily identify if the repair is at fault or whether the problem may have been due to some other ageing factor.

With the well publicised issues surrounding these windows it may be easier to prove the problem was due to an inadequate repair to the window.

You will also need to check the terms and conditions of the authority to do the repair, if you signed anything it may have been a disclaimer absolving Burstner of collateral damage claims, however a UK court may deem that to be an unfair term, but if the legal documents were enacted under the law of another country you would need to seek professional help to explain the legalities or otherwise.

 

[DerektheSecond]

Hi Andrew I have contacted you re my 2009 Xplore 495, I bought mine privately at 6 months old so I dont have redress to a dealer as the problem manifested itself after the year, I have transferred the warranty over to my name however I contacted Elddis on this point after seeing one of your posts I asked the question are the windows dangerous in any way and do they pose a danger of breaking up causing damage to other property or my caravan, I have it in writing that this is not the case so they (Elddis) appear to be taking the stance that it is cosmetic, I know the SOGA relates to the seller/dealer but if my car or tv had a problem which suggests a recall irrespective of who manufactured the part it is normally the "Brand" that ensures the part is replaced via any of the network of their dealers, in fact because of my location Vauxhall authorised a local garage to carry out the recall after sending me the part but. Ford, Peugeot or Sony etc.,all do this why are some caravan manufacturers different its their name that gets banded about not the actual manufacturer of the part.

 

[chris256]

try getting you service centre to contact miriad the uk dealer for these windows im on my 3rd front window on my xplore 474 my local service centre (i did not buy my van from here) was told by Elddis to deal direct with miriad in Derby. at £600 a window its worth a go.

 

[Hoodmansion]

I notice there are a lot of comments about the problems with Polyplastic windows on this forum, but have yet to find any mention of the problems with tint fade over the years.
Last autumn, I noticed that our 2004 Abbey was suffering problems with two of the front windows - the large centre window was suffering from the dreaded spores and one small window was delaminating. As the dealer who supplied the caravan went bust some time ago, I tried unsuccessfully to negotiate a discount on buying replacements. The cheapest I could get was small = £350 and large = £550. Eventually I decided to bite the bullet and replace the small window whilst trying to ignore the spore in the large window.
On fitting the replacement it immediately became clear that the new window was a completely different colour tint to the originals and stuck out like a sore thumb. I will swear on anything that the original windows had a distinct bronze tint to the acrylic, but the new window is grey (unfortunately I cannot find any suitable old photos showing the bronze tint to back me up). After considerable email exchanges with Miriad Products, I have had to reluctantly accept that 7 years in the sun can change grey to bronze (not lead to gold unfortunately).
My options are to keep the delaminated window in storage and refit it when I get around to PXing the caravan (whilst trying to hide the duck tape) or splash out for two more new windows to create a matching trio at the front.
Anyone else having problems with noticeably different window tinting?