Joys of motoring through the Highlands

[Sam Vimes]

Pretty much every adventure we undertake in the caravan takes us through Glen Coe. A narrow winding road at times and busy at this time of year.

Yesterday was no exception. Of course motorcyclists love it. Not for the first time but yesterday a serious accident with one closed the road. Everyone turning round so how do you do this on a road that's not as wide as your car+caravan.

Fortunately we were near a layby although full of walkers cars but it added a couple of extra metres to the width I thought.

My caravan manoeuvring is rubbish but managed a 300 point turn in which turn 150 proved we only had 1m extra width to play with. We did it but then had a 2hr diversion to take. A long day.

 

[RogerL]

Pretty much every adventure we undertake in the caravan takes us through Glen Coe. A narrow winding road at times and busy at this time of year.

Yesterday was no exception. Of course motorcyclists love it. Not for the first time but yesterday a serious accident with one closed the road. Everyone turning round so how do you do this on a road that's not as wide as your car+caravan.

Fortunately we were near a layby although full of walkers cars but it added a couple of extra metres to the width I thought.

My caravan manoeuvring is rubbish but managed a 300 point turn in which turn 150 proved we only had 1m extra width to play with. We did it but then had a 2hr diversion to take. A long day.

Unhitch, rotate the caravan by hand and rehitch - it's what the police make caravanners do when they catch them ignoring the caravan ban on the A170 Sutton Bank in North Yorkshire.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

 

[Mr Plodd]

Unhitch, rotate the caravan by hand and rehitch - it's what the police make caravanners do when they catch them ignoring the caravan ban on the A170 Sutton Bank in North Yorkshire

It makes you wonder if those drivers think the signs are there just because someone likes the look of them, rather than being for a purpose doesn't it?
I hope in addition to being inconvenienced they also get a fine for ignoring the prohibition?

 

[otherclive]

It looks as if the two caravans have successfully come up the steepest winding bit. If that’s so then sending them down isn’t a very sensible decision, but fining them on the spot would be. Or are there more steep sections ahead?

 

[RogerL]

It looks as if the two caravans have successfully come up the steepest winding bit. If that’s so then sending them down isn’t a very sensible decision, but fining them on the spot would be. Or are there more steep sections ahead?

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

The caravans were stopped at the bottom - another view of the same incident - with the second caravan in the distance if you rotate the view 180 degrees.

 

[Mr Plodd]

There don't appear to be any prohibition (circular) signs prohibiting caravans. If that's the case then there is nothing that can be done other than offering "Words of advice" I certainly wouldn't even think of towing a caravan up (or down!) a 25% (1 in 4 ) Hill but then I have a brain, and use it occasionally!
Clearly the truck has come down the hill so there isn't any form of wright restriction?
I don't know the location so am relying on the link provided re signs etc.
(Gradient signs are always read left to right)

In the Google earth link I wonder if the caravan was clocked further up the road by the camera van (laser speed detection has up to 600m range) and they were stopped for speeding coming down??

 

[Hutch]

There are" No Caravans allowed" signs on either end of the Sutton Bank, for several miles ahead and showing the caravan route to take.
HGV's are allowed on the Sutton Bank.

 

[Mr Plodd]

But are they advisory signs, Rectangular with blue background white lettering, or prohibition signs White circle with red border (like a speed limit or weight limit)
If the first then no offence to ignore it, to be legally enforceable they must be circular prohibition signs
I suspect the former because a "caravan" doesn't exist in legal terminology, they are simply trailers, so to be legally enforceable the prohibition would have to include ALL trailers.
I didn't make the laws, just pointing out the practicalities of it.

 

[RogerL]

But are they advisory signs, Rectangular with blue background white lettering, or prohibition signs White circle with red border (like a speed limit or weight limit)
If the first then no offence to ignore it, to be legally enforceable they must be circular prohibition signs

Enforceable https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-c...hgv-drivers-of-very-steep-hill-147798918.html

 

[GaryB]

It's one of those instances that gives caravans their own definition, BUT doesn't consider someone towing a large/equally heavy trailer behind a PLG (does that definition still exist?) "ordinary" passenger vehicle. While I couldn't tow my caravan up there @ 1472kgs, I could load up a twin axle car trailer and haul one of my relics up there on it with an MTPLM of 2000kgs!

 

[RogerL]

It's one of those instances that gives caravans their own definition, BUT doesn't consider someone towing a large/equally heavy trailer behind a PLG (does that definition still exist?) "ordinary" passenger vehicle. While I couldn't tow my caravan up there @ 1472kgs, I could load up a twin axle car trailer and haul one of my relics up there on it with an MTPLM of 2000kgs!

Historically, I believe it was caravanners stalling on the hairpin bend, when power-to-weight ratios were much lower, that caused the ban to be introduced - I'd hypothesise that HGVs weren't banned because their drivers are more professional and the alternative route isn't suitable for artics.

Whether the ban is still appropriate is debateable - with my present outfit I wouldn't envisage a problem.

 

[GaryB]

Historically, I believe it was caravanners stalling on the hairpin bend, when power-to-weight ratios were much lower, that caused the ban to be introduced

Valid point, towing a Sprite Musketeer up there behind a 1300cc Morris Marina would certainly be a challenge......

 

[otherclive]

Historically, I believe it was caravanners stalling on the hairpin bend, when power-to-weight ratios were much lower, that caused the ban to be introduced - I'd hypothesise that HGVs weren't banned because their drivers are more professional and the alternative route isn't suitable for artics.

Whether the ban is still appropriate is debateable - with my present outfit I wouldn't envisage a problem.

I suspect that HGV will have lower gear ratios specifically designed for steep ascents. Plus a front wheel drive car with caravan noseweight could scrabble for grip in parts.
Sutton Bank pales into insignificance compared to Rosedale Chimney Bank. 😂

Rosedale Chimney Bank - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Dustydog]

And another for the collection. Some of the hairpin bends are scary.
Only a madman would tow a caravan on theses type of roads!

Porlock Hill is the steepest A road in England

Located in Somerset county, in South West England, Porlock Hill is said to be the steepest A road in the country.

www.dangerousroads.org

 

[RogerL]

I suspect that HGV will have lower gear ratios specifically designed for steep ascents. Plus a front wheel drive car with caravan noseweight could scrabble for grip in parts.
Sutton Bank pales into insignificance compared to Rosedale Chimney Bank. 😂

Rosedale Chimney Bank - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

According to Wikipedia, the caravan ban on Sutton Bank was introduced in 1984, when most tow cars were still rear-wheel drive.

I enjoyed driving Chimney Bank both ways when we stayed at CC Rosedale Abbey - but I wouldn't take the caravan up, or down, it.

 

[Dustydog]

According to Wikipedia, the caravan ban on Sutton Bank was introduced in 1984, when most tow cars were still rear-wheel drive.

I enjoyed driving Chimney Bank both ways when we stayed at CC Rosedale Abbey - but I wouldn't take the caravan up, or down, it.

A good place to test the Hill descent control

 

[RogerL]

A good place to test the Hill descent control

It turns off over about 40 mph !!!

 

[Buckman]

I suspect that HGV will have lower gear ratios specifically designed for steep ascents. Plus a front wheel drive car with caravan noseweight could scrabble for grip in parts.
Sutton Bank pales into insignificance compared to Rosedale Chimney Bank. 😂

Rosedale Chimney Bank - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Would a 4x4 towing a caravan and using the low ratio gears be able to cope with that sort of terrain and hairpin bends?

 

[otherclive]

Would a 4x4 towing a caravan and using the low ratio gears be able to cope with that sort of terrain and hairpin bends?

Which road are you referring to?

 

[Buckman]

We have been up this road, but without our caravan. https://climbfinder.com/en/climbs/the-broadway-dursley

 

[Buckman]

Which road are you referring to?

Sutton Bank or any other one of the so called steep roads.

 

[Dustydog]

It turns off over about 40 mph !!!

Ah! The point of lift off! Very clever VW🤪

 

[Dustydog]

Would a 4x4 towing a caravan and using the low ratio gears be able to cope with that sort of terrain and hairpin bends?

In a straight line I’d have no concern attempting the climb.
Hairpin bends ? No. The steepness on the inner part of the hairpin is at its most acute. I can imagine the front or rear end of the caravan grounding on the turn causing damage, never mind having enough room to execute the hairpin.
Not for me.

 

[otherclive]

Sutton Bank or any other one of the so called steep roads.

Sutton Bank isn’t that bad, I’ve driven up similar in France. My Sorento Gen 1 would have had no problems without low ratio being used, nor XC70 which didn’t have low ratio. Chimney Bank is a different kettle of fish. The bends are wicked with steep cambers and I would not consider taking a caravan up it, or down it as bottoming would be a real risk too. But caravans are banned on Chimney Bank anyway.

 

[Buckman]

Sutton Bank isn’t that bad, I’ve driven up similar in France. My Sorento Gen 1 would have had no problems without low ratio being used, nor XC70 which didn’t have low ratio. Chimney Bank is a different kettle of fish. The bends are wicked with steep cambers and I would not consider taking a caravan up it, or down it as bottoming would be a real risk too. But caravans are banned on Chimney Bank anyway.

Although some could be doable with a caravan in tow and a decent 4x4 I would not contemplate it. As mentioned the caravan bottoming out at the rear is the concern as we all remember the gentleman from the CC doing this and destroying half his caravan in the process. No wonder it is now called the CAMC.