Juggernaut sandwich - now THAT'S dangerous...

[JohnI.Stephen]

Seeing as I started this thread I thoyght I'd bring it back on topic by advising you that I have just had a weekend away in the Cotswolds and did the 100miles on M25 and M40 motorways. I set teh cruise control to 56 and then relaxed. The Sat Nat told me the ETA and we just trundled along (that's a technical term !) and enjoyed the lack of fuss. Well sort of; we did find that many HGVs would still try to maintain nearer 60 mph and so overtake us at around 2 mph faster than us. Nevertheless , it was much safer and less tense using the Cruise at 56 mph.

John

 

[DEANO3528]

Nice to hear this was a better experience.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

As Dean has pointed out it is not possible to put the trucks onto the railway for long haul as the bridges and tunnels in this country would restrict it. America has this long haul service whereby the heavy goods vehicles are loaded onto the train for the bulk of its journey and it appears to be very successful. I will agree that America is slightly larger than the UK for the benefits of this kind of haulage, but the principle should be the same.

 

[Geordie]

Colin for transport minister!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

They do the same in France and I believe Spain regarding putting the articulated trailers on the train. The power unit takes it to its destination at the rail head.

 

[Guest]

A number of countries do this. It is mandatory in Switzerland, it is practiced regularly in Hungary and Austria. The French do it. I cannot comment directly on others as I have not personally seen the trains.

The point about tunnels and bridges is true, the Uk loading gauge is smaller than the Continental one, however... that did not stop the alignment being increased to allow Eurostar to travel on the UK system, it is designed to European standards. In fact it can travel up to Leeds, so already that piece is quite capable of taking trucks.

Unfortunately, as with many things in this country, it is all down to politics. The bigger the shout (and possibly the size of your donation to a political party) can make the laws much more convenient to any organisation, and the road transport lobby is no exception. It is ironic that since privatisation many of the bus companies now have rail franchises and the old days of 'warfare' between them has gone. Now integration is the buzzword, something the public wanted all along. I suspect it will take a similar mindchange for the trucking industry to follow suit.

Now rose tinted spectacles are not a perspective I would endorse. Yes, I enjoy preserved railways as a hobby, but I would much rather sit in a GNER Mallard train and be whisked along at high speed and comfort than go back to a steam engine, except on Sundays?? Of course as oil runs out, you never know, it may make a comeback.

As a caravanner the most detrimental part of any journey I make is having to endure the HGV parking areas on UK motorway service areas. I know some do have designated caravan areas but many truckers cannot read. Ooops, have I started another thread?? I wouldn't use the areas out of choice, but the call of nature often forces the issue, and I rarely stay longer than that.

 

[joeby]

Now far be it from me to to pour cold water on your claims Joby, but I've been a professional driver since 1983 and I still can't say that I am definitely a foot away from something that's following me. I might well be able to park the back of a trailer within a 2 foot box when reversing with nice big mirrors, which is part of the test, but it's not so easy with the silly little mirrors fitted to most modern private vehicles.

Scotch Lad adds fuel to the anti-hgv fire by stating that he "objects to the desire of trucks to travel in convoys, usually tailing each other in the middle, or outer lanes and ensuring a large tailback is created. Invariably as soon as one passes and pulls in, the next man in line pulls out and the process is repeated."

You can't have it all your own way. What do you want to do?

Limit HGV's to 40mph?

That way you'll have convoys on the roads at 40 rather than 56mph. The fact that some desk jockey thought up the speed limiter is proved by the fact that they don't actually work to anyone's advantage!

The trucks can't reach the magical mile a minute or their legal 60 mph on motorways and are hampered in their overtaking because they can't pass quickly enough not to cause other motorists to have to wait a few moments. Woe betide any lorry driver that might slow a car driver down for a few seconds despite the fact that slowing the lorry will result in far greater increases in fuel consumption and thus increased emissions.

Maybe we should ban all hgv's from the roads then perhaps the two of you will be happy.

No one is asking any truck to do 40 M P H ,in my book you can go any speed you want just leave a safe distance .

 

[cris_408518]

Over the years I have had numerous times when overtaking a lorry I have had another Artic close in so close his air bow wave is making my van be pushed along the idiots get so close. Only good loading and stabiliser have prevented some nasty accidents. I always pull away and exceed the speed lilmit if I feel the road and conditions are ok. As soon as I can I pull over and drop to the correct speed and let the fools pass.

I am not prepared to sit alongside an artic with another likely to push me out of control as it uses the hole my unit punches through the air to enable him to get one trucks length ahead.

A lot of trucks have trounble passing another due to their speed governor and breaking through the other trucks bow wave turbulence. I've found it very scary and if anyone else wants to sit in hospital after some nutty trucker has sent them barreling along the road rather than break the speed limit, well good on you.

I am also an advanced Motorcyclist and was told by the head of Surreys trafic Bike Cops that if you are overtaking and find yourself in a compromising situation through no fault of your own it is Ok to take the option of exceeding the limit by 10 to 15 mph briefly and then having completed your manouvre return asap to the legal limit. "Common sense that any right minded officer would accept and ignore" he stated some years. ago!

Doesn't count with Speed Cameras though!

I am amazed by caravanners who maintain their position on dual cariageways as Trucks and speedy coaches overtake them the wind bow wave making their cars and vans weave dangerously. I drive close to the inside or move to the left as these vehicles pass. Some truckers and coach drivers have the sense to move out if they have room so you get less turbulence from their vehicles.The tram line tracks left on the roads by heavy trucks are a nightmare for some caravaners as the passing large vehicle turbulance movess the van and tow vehicle around as the movement is worse as the car and vans wheel tracks differ and ride the slopes of the indentations in the road surface. Keep left and avoid the problem I say!

 

[DEANO3528]

Well cris, best we just ban all HGV's right here and now. At least you'll be able to cruise in safety with your rig on the odd weekend you go out. After all, who needs clothes, food and just about everything else when it might get in the way of, or come to that anywhere near yourself.

While we are at it let's ban all 7.5 tonners, white vans (ah what the hell, all colours) and those annoying little courier motors too.

Happy now?

I doubt it.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

Nothing wrong with lorry drivers,always give you a flash when its safe to pull back in after overtaking,and normally the one to let you out into the middle lane when trying to overtake. Ive noticed a lot of HGV drivers will hang back until they know you have seen them before overtaking you,they obviously know what effect their outfit can have on a caravan .

 

[VIP2006]

Brian - I totally agee that lorry drivers are in the main "friends" of caravans, due to the fact that they are now themselves a "breed" who come under a flack from the would be "owners" of the road. I much prefer to be in the inside lane, towing along at betwen 50-55 mph. which allows the HGV to pass when he needs to, and I beleive that because he has a much better view of road conditions in all directions then he is at much greater advantage than others. If drivers of cars would only realise this then the roads would be appreciably safer. IMHO

 

[Guest]

Well cris, best we just ban all HGV's right here and now. At least you'll be able to cruise in safety with your rig on the odd weekend you go out. After all, who needs clothes, food and just about everything else when it might get in the way of, or come to that anywhere near yourself.

While we are at it let's ban all 7.5 tonners, white vans (ah what the hell, all colours) and those annoying little courier motors too.

Happy now?

I doubt it.

Nah! Don't ban all the vehicles, just the b...y drivers, Heh! heh! Bring back the horse and cart and see the roses grow.

 

[cris_408518]

I guess DEANO3258's medication had been delayed as he is obviously on something

I Make my living out of Trucks and Coaches and average over a 1000 miles a week. My Caravan never does the weekend trundling around, not my idea of fun. But I'll leave others to do and choose what they want to do with their time.

As DEANO has only been a Pro Driver since 83 I guess he stiil lacks vision and experience.

I'm quite happy with white van man, truckies or couriers being on the road, any one can make a mistake when driving. And I believe in live and let live.

People soon carp on if the news is of a blocked road due to a Caravan Jack Knifing or an Articulated truck doing the same.

Truckers get well upset if somebody cuts in on them as with their weight and size they can't stop on a sixpence or swerve like Torvil & Dean on Ice.

Trucks and Caravans are not a good side by side combination, many truckers and Coach drivers are great in the main. But there are plenty of HGV & Coach twonks on the road as there are cazravanning twonks pulling with under powered cars and badly loaded riggs etc.

My car could pull my big van at 90mph but somebody decided it was wise to put a 60mph limit on Caravans on M'ways.

Maybe DEANO would like all the truckies that deliver for the caravan and camping industry out of work and off the road if all our vans were scrapped and banned.

Live and let live DEANO I have witnessed plenty of stupid truck crashes and accidents that block the roads and stop other sensible truckers doing their work as well as car, van and caravan and trailer accidents.

On two days last year I followed two trucks jockeying for position over distances of between 4 and 7 miles on the M'ways on 3 seperate trips.I guess that is sensible driving for a truckie in Deano's book! Two where trucks ended up in a crash and one where a following Articulated truck just pulled out behind a truck that was failing to overtake, he side swiped a courier type van into the central armco whilst carrying on his way. 7 hours wasted sat on motorway sharing coffee's with truckies as we waited for mayhem to be cleared due to the stupity of truck drivers according to fellow truck drivers. And my customers truck a day late leaving for Spain due to me being held up and his return load leaving with another company!

I have just come in off the motorways where in four hours I've witnessed six trucks in a line with only spitting distance between them and another truck pull out with no warning and side swipe a Sprinter Van.

DEANO wants to pop and have chat to the police at the M40 jnc 10, I saw three trucks on their sides there in recent times and I know of others.

All well driven and loaded in DEANO's Book I guess! Or did the drivers fail to read the road? Or was it a big puff of wind that blew them on their sides holding up all the other trucks trying to get on or off the A43.

Asking that ALL truckers and coach drivers keep off the tail end of caravans is a good sense for all road users in my book!

I give them plenty of room and always acknowledge those that flash when it is safe to pull back in front after passing, obviously those drivers of HGV's and Coaches are advising me that I am clear and safe to pull over so why do I get all the Cr1p mentioning the fools that get so close they are pushing the back of caravans or towavans and the like around!

Keep taking the Pills DEANO :-}

JOKE! remember truckers are famed for their sense of humour as well as being Kings of the roads!

 

[sparkes]

I guess DEANO3258's medication had been delayed as he is obviously on something

I Make my living out of Trucks and Coaches and average over a 1000 miles a week. My Caravan never does the weekend trundling around, not my idea of fun. But I'll leave others to do and choose what they want to do with their time.

As DEANO has only been a Pro Driver since 83 I guess he stiil lacks vision and experience.

I'm quite happy with white van man, truckies or couriers being on the road, any one can make a mistake when driving. And I believe in live and let live.

People soon carp on if the news is of a blocked road due to a Caravan Jack Knifing or an Articulated truck doing the same.

Truckers get well upset if somebody cuts in on them as with their weight and size they can't stop on a sixpence or swerve like Torvil & Dean on Ice.

Trucks and Caravans are not a good side by side combination, many truckers and Coach drivers are great in the main. But there are plenty of HGV & Coach twonks on the road as there are cazravanning twonks pulling with under powered cars and badly loaded riggs etc.

My car could pull my big van at 90mph but somebody decided it was wise to put a 60mph limit on Caravans on M'ways.

Maybe DEANO would like all the truckies that deliver for the caravan and camping industry out of work and off the road if all our vans were scrapped and banned.

Live and let live DEANO I have witnessed plenty of stupid truck crashes and accidents that block the roads and stop other sensible truckers doing their work as well as car, van and caravan and trailer accidents.

On two days last year I followed two trucks jockeying for position over distances of between 4 and 7 miles on the M'ways on 3 seperate trips.I guess that is sensible driving for a truckie in Deano's book! Two where trucks ended up in a crash and one where a following Articulated truck just pulled out behind a truck that was failing to overtake, he side swiped a courier type van into the central armco whilst carrying on his way. 7 hours wasted sat on motorway sharing coffee's with truckies as we waited for mayhem to be cleared due to the stupity of truck drivers according to fellow truck drivers. And my customers truck a day late leaving for Spain due to me being held up and his return load leaving with another company!

I have just come in off the motorways where in four hours I've witnessed six trucks in a line with only spitting distance between them and another truck pull out with no warning and side swipe a Sprinter Van.

DEANO wants to pop and have chat to the police at the M40 jnc 10, I saw three trucks on their sides there in recent times and I know of others.

All well driven and loaded in DEANO's Book I guess! Or did the drivers fail to read the road? Or was it a big puff of wind that blew them on their sides holding up all the other trucks trying to get on or off the A43.

Asking that ALL truckers and coach drivers keep off the tail end of caravans is a good sense for all road users in my book!

I give them plenty of room and always acknowledge those that flash when it is safe to pull back in front after passing, obviously those drivers of HGV's and Coaches are advising me that I am clear and safe to pull over so why do I get all the Cr1p mentioning the fools that get so close they are pushing the back of caravans or towavans and the like around!

Keep taking the Pills DEANO :-}

JOKE! remember truckers are famed for their sense of humour as well as being Kings of the roads!

Sorry you lost me half way through. It turned from a debate into a lets make DEANO look stupid.

And you where doing so well

 

[cris_408518]

Sparkes (steve)

Have had big brother Moderator slap my legs already.

DEANO made incorrect assumptions about the use of my Van and silly comment abouit me wanting HGV's etc off the road.

I made a comment on a dangerous practice used by SOME drivers of large vehicles. Did I ever suggest that they should all be kept off the road?

I suggest that if Deano has unfortunately taken offense to my response that he takes his truck up and down the 2 lane M11 for a few days. Two lane motorway with loads of hills and watch the Kings of the road and caravan and truck drivers tackle what that throws up.Any Idea that HGV drivers or Drivers pulling caravans are saints will soon go out the window!

My main beef is that Mr PLod will jump and book a speeding motorist yet ignore other dangerous driving practices until there is a crash!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Rightly or wrongly you cannot get away from the fact that on 2 lane motorways or dual carriageway A roads such as the M42 / A42 lorries overtaking cause the majority of long tailbacks. We've all been behind them many times when its taken a lorry a few miles to overtake another, very often having to pull back in after causing chaos behind. It has the same effect on 3 lane motorways too but not quite as bad. Eventually the traffic behind builds up and goes back a considerable distance and with all the breaking and the knock on effect the traffic 1 or 2 miles back actually comes to a stop. You really need to be in the air to appreciate whats happening. What the answer is I dont know except the experiment they are trying now on the M42. The powers that be's answer will no doubt be to cover more countryside in concrete and asphalt, at least it will give less room to those mangy foxes, T.B. carrying badgers, flea ridden hedgehogs and it will mean less farmland for those crop eating birds to destroy. The main thing though is it will placate the road lobby. Lets fill up the waterways with concrete then not only will we have more roads but will eradicate those fish destroying herons and kingfishers at the same time. Drain the lakes while we are at it so we can build more housing for those poor under-priviledged people in the Middle East and the Indian sub continent. OK I'm done :O) Happy Wintertide to you all .

 

[Guest]

Calm down Calm down. what is all this about I never met any inconsiderate lorry driver yet (well except few foreign lorry driver that is) when I hitched my van and get on the road I am going on holiday all I do is just drive and use forward planning all the time look ahead and you can see what is happening ask yourself what if, and you will never get into a situation that will cause you lots of stress and you arrive at your destination relaxing and ready to enjoy life.

 

[cris_408518]

Maybe your driving in a different time warp than me Y'shian. I've met more than my fair share of inconsiderate HGV drivers! But I've also met on the road plenty more inconsiderate drivers.

Problem is when I have the Van on the back of my car, the dynamic changes and large trucks and coaches become a greater danger if they get to close. MOST ARE FINE. But that still doesn't stop the problem of a truck tailing another for miles and then using me or other caravaners to aid what seem to me to be a pointless risky manouvre. Not only have I had it done to me over the years but have witnessed it countless times and had others on campsites tell the tales.

You in a way have nailed it!

I'm out going on Holiday happy and relaxed. Truckers/Coach drivers are working, so why when so many aid me and help do others risk caravaners and truckers and all road users safety by closing in on a rig that their bulk can possibly make unstable!

 

[Guest]

Maybe your driving in a different time warp than me Y'shian. I've met more than my fair share of inconsiderate HGV drivers! But I've also met on the road plenty more inconsiderate drivers.

Problem is when I have the Van on the back of my car, the dynamic changes and large trucks and coaches become a greater danger if they get to close. MOST ARE FINE. But that still doesn't stop the problem of a truck tailing another for miles and then using me or other caravaners to aid what seem to me to be a pointless risky manouvre. Not only have I had it done to me over the years but have witnessed it countless times and had others on campsites tell the tales.

You in a way have nailed it!

I'm out going on Holiday happy and relaxed. Truckers/Coach drivers are working, so why when so many aid me and help do others risk caravaners and truckers and all road users safety by closing in on a rig that their bulk can possibly make unstable!

I only drive to the standard as taught by ADI

 

[cris_408518]

Calm down Calm down. what is all this about I never met any inconsiderate lorry driver yet (well except few foreign lorry driver that is) when I hitched my van and get on the road I am going on holiday all I do is just drive and use forward planning all the time look ahead and you can see what is happening ask yourself what if, and you will never get into a situation that will cause you lots of stress and you arrive at your destination relaxing and ready to enjoy life.

ADI ?

Driving to the standard as taught is fine! But any police office or advanced driving instructor will tell you that there are rare occasions where safety over rules the law.