Keep your leccy cars

[Buckman]

A polestar 3 - and absolute standard trim has done 581 miles on a single charge (107kWh). That's an at-home charging cost of £7.49 and an equivalent of 261 MPG based on 10.7kWh of energy per litre of diesel.

I don't think the electric car industry is going to be worried given the relative efficiency and costs of the fuel.

It begs a question though. What range is "good enough" for a car in normal use? I had a 1.9L Volvo v40 T4 in 1997. It would just about manage 300 miles on a single tank of petrol. My return trip to the office was 140 miles, so I would have to fill it every other day. My last EV had a guaranteed real world winter range of 190 miles, and a return trip to the office of 150 mile (we moved office a bit), so it needed charging every night, meaning I never had to public charge it to get to work a back. My current EV - 270 miles without batting an eyelid.

Now - as has been pointed out here, at-home charging needs to be resolved for those that can't today, but suppose that gets solved. How much range do you actually need in a car in the UK or Europe? I can categorically state that I will NEVER need a car that can drive more than 500 miles before needing to refilled in whatever format. And actually, I have proven to my self over the last 4 years that 200 miles between fills is quite sufficient for long distance driving (700+ miles in a day).

Story is here.

This Polestar just went nearly 600 MILES without charging on real UK roads! | Autocar

Unmodified Polestar 3 beats its official range by 143 miles and sets a new benchmark for EV SUVs

www.autocar.co.uk

One of the big issues is needing to top up while on the move as it seems there is a bit of a problem with public chargers i.e. not working or cars waiting to recharge. Theft of charging cables is not a major crime.

 

[Tobes]

One of the big issues is needing to top up while on the move as it seems there is a bit of a problem with public chargers i.e. not working or cars waiting to recharge. Theft of charging cables is not a major crime.

Cable theft is an issue, and is being looked at by charging companies with various solutions being adopted. Chargers not working is not a problem. You simply don't go to ones that are out of service.

But those points are avoiding the question - how far is far enough? What range do you really need if you could leave home will a full tank every single morning, independent of fuel type?

 

[RogerL]

It begs a question though. What range is "good enough" for a car in normal use? I

IMO 2 hours towing a caravan at 60mph on motorways - that's real life range, not the artificially high WLTP figures - so that's 120 miles towing, equivalent to 240 miles solo, about 360 miles WLTP - but that's a major culture change compared to a good diesel.

I presently never ever have to refuel more than once a day - regardless of the distance or load.

 

[GUMPY]

How much range do you actually need in a car in the UK or Europe? I can categorically state that I will NEVER need a car that can drive more than 500 miles before needing to refilled in whatever format

Pretty much agree with that.
My driving patterns fall in two distinct groups.
Yeti easily does 500miles to a tank most journeys are 150-250 miles so well covered even when towing.
Abarth does about 250miles to the tank (only on 2nd tankful so not sure yet) most journeys are less than 20 miles so I could easily manage with a car that only has 100 mile range, C says NO to an electric car.
I would think that much of the UK use is in my second category, apart from maybe one longer trip a year. So really all this range anxiety is unnecessary.

 

[Buckman]

Cable theft is an issue, and is being looked at by charging companies with various solutions being adopted. Chargers not working is not a problem. You simply don't go to ones that are out of service.

But those points are avoiding the question - how far is far enough? What range do you really need if you could leave home will a full tank every single morning, independent of fuel type?

However it is a big problem if you need to top up as your range is nearly expended? You probably will not know a charger is out of service until you go to top up.

 

[Tobes]

IMO 2 hours towing a caravan at 60mph on motorways - that's real life range, not the artificially high WLTP figures - so that's 120 miles towing, equivalent to 240 miles solo, about 360 miles WLTP - but that's a major culture change compared to a good diesel.

I presently never ever have to refuel more than once a day - regardless of the distance or load.

Agree. 2 to 2.5 hours behind the wheel when towing is more than enough for me.
Worth noting, my older P2 had a WLTP of 273 miles, I could achieve 190 to 210 solo and 130 to 140 towing. Of course - your mileage may vary!

 

[Tobes]

However it is a big problem if you need to top up as your range is nearly expended? You probably will not know a charger is out of service until you go to top up.

Thats the thing. I absolutely know if a charger is working and available before I show up. The charger network is not like the fuel network in that its status is on line, in real time and can be relayed right to your dashboard. My car, and many others can show you if a charger is out of use and will plan a route accordingly. As to having to top up because range is nearly expended? I would not have driven my old diesel with the caravan on the back down to 5 miles left before trying to fill up in case the pumps were out of use. The same applies to towing today. I monitor my remaining range and remaining energy (which is dramatically more accurate than a diesel fuel gauge), the status of chargers ahead of me, and charge at a location that gives me options.

 

[GUMPY]

However it is a big problem if you need to top up as your range is nearly expended? You probably will not know a charger is out of service until you go to top up.

The Electroverse app tells me which charging points are available and which are in use or unavailable so it's easy to tell whether one is in service or not and plan accordingly.

However since there is no way of finding out you wouldn't know that a petrol station was open or closed until you arrived to fill up.

 

[RogerL]

Agree. 2 to 2.5 hours behind the wheel when towing is more than enough for me.
Worth noting, my older P2 had a WLTP of 273 miles, I could achieve 190 to 210 solo and 130 to 140 towing. Of course - your mileage may vary!

Some people find towing stressful but I don't so I can do, and still do do, long driving days when the destination calls for it - it's the short breaks every 2 - 2.5 hours that makes it possible.

At present, having to take a longer break while the car recharges and the frequent need to detour off the route in search of cheaper charging (or accept the high motorway charge costs) on longer towing trips is what's stopping me seriously considering switching to EV - as well as the palaver involved in detaching the caravan while charging.

 

[Sam Vimes]

The never ending debate.

It seems to me that there is less consideration and concern in choosing an ICE powered vehicle than and EV.

ICEs have worked for just about everyone for years without any real concerns. I don't think you could say the same for EVs. Works for some but not for others.

And for what its worth I'll tow for upto 9 hours with just a couple of 30 - 40 minutes break and no filling up in between.

 

[Tobes]

Some people find towing stressful but I don't so I can do, and still do do, long driving days when the destination calls for it - it's the short breaks every 2 - 2.5 hours that makes it possible.

At present, having to take a longer break while the car recharges and the frequent need to detour off the route in search of cheaper charging (or accept the high motorway charge costs) on longer towing trips is what's stopping me seriously considering switching to EV - as well as the palaver involved in detaching the caravan while charging.

And for what its worth I'll tow for upto 9 hours with just a couple of 30 - 40 minutes break and no filling up in between.

When I say 2 to 2.5 hours, I mean that without a break. Doing 3 stints of 2 to 2.5 in a day is something I would do if I had a reasonable break in between. I think that's why (for me) an EV works so well. I can tow for 2 to 2.5 hours (somewhere between 100 and 150 miles) have a rest for 30 mins and be going again for the next leg. In the old car, 40 mins on charge would give 100 miles towing range. In the new car, 30 mins on charge will deliver 150 miles of towing range. So that could work out at 450 miles a day, in 3 stints of 3 hours with two 30 mins stops. 9 hours of towing for 10 hours of total time. More than I would plan to tow for, but doable for @Sam Vimes or @RogerL by the sounds of it.

@RogerL - somewhat ironically, some of the cheapest charging is on the motorway network, if you happen to tow with a Tesla (I dont). And deviating off may be as little as 1/2 mile off the motorway at a junction, just to give a better car park or pull through towing experience.