Lack of Towing Mirrors

[TimM]

Why is it that so many of our caravan fraternity still don't use towing mirrors? On a recent trip we counted about 1 in 5 towing without them. Didn't look like many of these people were new to caravanning either.

What brought this to head for me and prompted me post on this subject was last week I was travelling down the M4 solo, when a caravan going about 15 mph slower than I was in the left lane pulled out whilst I was just about to pass it in the middle lane. Extremely luckily for all of us there was nothing in the outside lane and I swerved in to it without losing control. Sure enough as I passed, no towing mirrors. He had never seen me. At that speed differential and bearing in mind the level of traffic, if I had not been able to avoid him there would have been a serious accident. I wonder if his insurance would have paid out?

Do people who tow without mirrors not realise how selfish they are to other road users or that in nearly all cases they are acting illegally? At this time of the year, every weekend we hear of roads being blocked with accidents involving caravans. As a body of people we need to make sure we act responsibly with our hobby and for me not fitting mirrors is just bonkers. I was extremely lucky last week and so was the guy who nearly hit me.

 

[David.O]

Tim

As I see it there are caravaner's and those that have a caravan.

Those who tow without mirrors fall into the last category

 

[602]

Hi,

From your description, even if the towcar had just basic "wing" mirrors, the driver should still have been able to see you if you were overtaking. Its the car sticking out just a few inches further than the caravan that he can't see. Unless of course he has set those mirrors so he can see the O/S kerb when parking on wrong side of the road. Or his wife drove the car last.

602

 

[Guest]

The Law states you must have clear vision down both sides of the trailer, so if any driver cannot see more than the front corner, they are liable to prosecution if stopped.

As mentioned a lot of people nowadays feel that the 'rules' are for others, not themselves.

 

[ed1]

hello,

well, we are caravanners, but dont have towing mirrors on current outfit, always had them on other outfits, but not this one, i can see down the caravan, and also can see to overtake and make the manover (thats spelt wrong) correctly, so please dont put me in your opinion, the ones with caravans, we have had vans for 20 years, and consider it safe to tow without, mainly due to the fact that one of the mirrors we did have broke,(as it broke as we set off) so we did have to tow without anyway. the outfit is a discovery 3, towing a compass. definately carravanners.

 

[Surfer]

Ed, my vehicle is slightly wider than yours and although I can see down the side of the caravan, I cannot see the rear corner and if you cannot see the rear corner, it is an offence. I now use extended mirrors!

 

[ed1]

my issue here isnt the mirrors, as the remaining one is in the back, the issue was being classed as someone who had a caravan.. we managed to tow from west yorks to fort william and back and were perfectly safe... if it is an offence is there now clarification, as i thought it was still confusing, dont get me wrong when we venture to france they will be going on(new ones that is) especially the passenger side, as advised by members on here...regards ed

 

[ed1]

sorry forgot to add, maybe the person towing the van was just an incompetent driver, and it had nothing to do with mirrors at all... just a thought.....moan over...ed

 

[Parksy]

According to this section from 'towing law' accessed via the website home page the law regarding towing mirrors is unclear:

http://www.practicalcaravan.com/features/law2.html
Quote:

'TOWING MIRRORS

The law on towing mirrors is a little hazy. The law requires the driver to have an "adequate" view to the rear and down the sides of the caravan, but does not define "adequate". So do you need extension mirrors or not? Not if your towing vehicle's mirrors are large enough and can be adjusted to see down past the sides of the caravan. But most cars will need extension mirrors to satisfy the law.

If you do fit extension mirrors, remember that it is an offence if they project more than 200mm from the side of the vehicle or trailer, whichever is the wider. This means that when driving solo, they must not project more than 200mm from the edge of the towcar - hence most will need to be removed after pitching if you are going to take the car off the site.'

 

[ed1]

According to this section from 'towing law' accessed via the website home page the law regarding towing mirrors is unclear:

http://www.practicalcaravan.com/features/law2.html
Quote:

'TOWING MIRRORS

The law on towing mirrors is a little hazy. The law requires the driver to have an "adequate" view to the rear and down the sides of the caravan, but does not define "adequate". So do you need extension mirrors or not? Not if your towing vehicle's mirrors are large enough and can be adjusted to see down past the sides of the caravan. But most cars will need extension mirrors to satisfy the law.

If you do fit extension mirrors, remember that it is an offence if they project more than 200mm from the side of the vehicle or trailer, whichever is the wider. This means that when driving solo, they must not project more than 200mm from the edge of the towcar - hence most will need to be removed after pitching if you are going to take the car off the site.'

thankyou for that parksy, its all become clear now, similar to other reports i have read, thanks again

 

[Guest]

I think one of the main issues is whether or not, the Plod who stops you is clear on the Law or are you going to spend all day discussing it with him. If he believes as most of us do that extension mirors are required for towing, then having them fitted is more likely for him to leave you in peace. If you start 'arguing' with him then it is likely he will decide you need a more rigorous inspection probably at a weighbridge. Even if everything turns out fine, you have wasted an awful lot of time.

Is it worth it?

 

[Gumbo]

I tow a 2.23m wide van with a Toyota Land Cruiser, I bought Aero extension mirrors but don't use them. I find they are a distraction when I am looking through them, and can see just as well with my own wing mirrors. If someone is really up close behind the van you may miss them, but you will certainly see them when they pull out to overtake.

So don't think everyone needs them, I know I can see both corners of the rear of the van so I have no need to worry about plod.

ps I was talking to a plod I know (traffic division ) and he didn't know about B + E. I must admit he is young but !!!!

 

[TD42]

I have a standard saloon car & tow a 23ft van,using the car mirror's I can see down both sides & the rear corners of my van with no problem. However the use of extended mirror's reduces the cone of the blind area immediatly behind the van considerably. Ie without the extended mirror's I can only see a car directly behind me if it is more than 2ooyds away. with extended mirrors the view increases to less than 50yds behind me. which as I understand the use of extended mirror's is what it is all about. but as a great percentage of drivers out there do not seem to use their mirrors perhaps the relevance is immaterial to them

 

[602]

Hi,

I cannot see the rear corners of my van. But I can see the produding plastic side windows, and I can see through the van. But I know what I can't see, and always do at least a "double take" before pulling out. I suggest that knowing you have a problem makes you safer than the driver who assumes all is well.

Lets face it, I don't overtake moving traffic very often, so most (all?) times that I change lane is to pass something stationary. This means that the trailer is not in line with the tow-car, so the mirrors are irrelevent by the time I reach that stage.

Can anybody point me to where I can find the legislation?

Hearsay has several versions. Adequate view! See rear corners of trailer! Just to mention two versions that have appeared on this discussion. I find it hard to accept that I need mirrors wider than a 7ft wide flat-bed trailer that is only 2ft high. And when towing my little box trailer, I can't see the trailer, let alone the rear corners.

I do try to comply with the law, they just seem to make it difficult to work out what the law requires.

602

 

[602]

Hi,

Referring back to the original mail, something about a caravan pulling into the middle lane, just as it was about to be overtaken.

Tongue in cheek ...... maybe it was being driven by somebody who forgot he wasn't in his artic. I reckon an HGV does that to me virtually every time I use the M4. Present company excepted, of course.

602

 

[WilliamLX]

I tow with a mark 3 Mondeo. I have towing mirrors, which I fit. However to be honest they make very very little difference to how much I can see to the rear of the van, and they are incredibly difficult to position to allow you to see even as much as you can with the car mirrors. I really only fit them to keep plod happy.

 

[Dustydog]

William

You must have an Eriba??

My towing mirrors attached to my Sorento give me an excellent view down both sides of the Wyoming. I'd never tow without them.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[WilliamLX]

No I have a Bailey Ranger.

 

[TimM]

It certainly looks like the legislation needs clarifying and also that some people get on with their mirrors better than others. I tow with a Discovery 2 and used to have the strap on type mirrors but although they gave me more vision, they did vibrate a lot so they weren't that clear. For last 2 years I have used a pair of the Milenco Grand Aero Mirrors(the big ones)fitted with convex lenses and these are superb. Very good vision and much less vibration. Having said that I still can't quite see the nearside rear corner of the van but not far off. There is the debate about convex mirrors which have better vision but make things look further away against flat mirrors but I like the convex ones.

The guy that nearly hit me was in a Rover 400 so a fairly narrow car. He had huge blind spots and should not have been driving without mirrors.

 

[Frank_374377712]

Twice in the past month I have had a similar experience to Tim. I drive daily on the M8 between Glasgow to Edinburgh and although I have not counted I'm certain it is more than 1 in 5 cars that obviously need mirrors do not have them and I'm too tired just now to go on about being passed at 60!

Anyway, I have spent the best part of an hour doing Google and Ask searches and still have not found the legislation to back up what I believe to true - which is:

You must be able to see clearly down both sides of the caravan, and see 4 meters either side of the caravan at a distance of 20 meters behind the rear of the caravan.

This in reality means, if your caravan/trailer is wider than the rear of your tow vehicle, you must fit towing mirrors to comply with the law. You can be fined up to

 

[smiley]

I thought I would join in.

Especially after just reading Ed's post.

We started off with mirrors fixed to our mirrors on the car, but didn't think they were good enough.

I didn't think they were safe enough, we changed over to mirrors mounted on the car bonnet because it gave us greater visibility.

I would like to ask Ed when you are driving in a left hand lane on a left hand bend and wanting to move over into the right hand lane for turning right at an island say, can you still see behind you.

I think not. I have seen a lot of 4x4 vihicles towing with out mirrors (and cars too)! and in the same circumstance as above they pulled out not seeing us.

I am not saying that our mirrors give us 100% visibility in all moanovers but it helps keep us a little safer and other drivers we can see!!

I should think if you were both in a straight line the other driver just didn't look. As with cars people start to move out before looking and if they deem to use indicators, they indiacate as the pulling out.

 

[Barkas]

Hi All. As a keen cyclist I spot a lot of things that you just don't see from a speeding car or camper, and one thing I see a lot of lying in ditches and drains is clamp on mirrors from caravaners cars and empty spirit bottles that have been thrown from vehicles.

 

[ed1]

hello smiley,

cant think of an exact incident for that one, but if you are trying to imply that im not capable of seeing then i will wait untill i do it and let you know,( i have never thought that i couldnt see, i am and always have been a very safe, if not too safe driver,and will continue to be so) in my experience as said by others, they hinder rather than help me, and as also said by me, i did have mirrors on all other vehicles apart from this one, mainly due to the broken one, and then realising that i could see, im still racking my brain to think of an incident that i thought , i couldnt see enough of the van, i promise i will buy some when i have some spare cash, will that make you happy, but what if i buy some and dont look in them, as also said by someone else, they are just on to satisfy plod....i also did the same searches to find out clarification, and came up with the same answers, but also found ones that werent so obvious, isnt it also dependent on the police themselves. we were actually parked behind a patrol car not too long ago, and they never mentioned anything to us, hope this helps smiley, ED

 

[ed1]

hello again smiley,

ive just re-read your post,

does my comment offend you that much, maybe you would be better letting me know what mirrors you use, they may fit mine,

 

[Parksy]

Please don't turn this topic into a personal argument.

Feel free to debate each others point of view by all means but this forum isn't here to cause hurt feelings and upset.