Laptop issues

[Buckman]

Sadly just about impossible to claim under CRA 2015 if a laptop starts performing weirdly. Only response is that it is probably a software fault due to something on the laptop. My issue is the keyboard outputting the incorrect characters i.e. press b and v appears instead. To rectify, the only way I know is to shut down the laptop.

I bought it about 2 years ago with a 1 year manufacturer's warranty. As the warranty was about to expire I get getting loads of emails trying to get me to pay for an extended warranty. Of course I ignored this and within 3 months of the warranty expiring, the laptop has been doing so weird things like buttons working randomly on keyboard or not working at all. The latter is in addition to the incorrect character issue.

It is a well know brand "D" used by major companies, but it is not an IBM or ICL.

 

[otherclive]

My daughter had a similar issue with a well known purveyor of electronic kit. It was always a software issue, but she rarely if ever installed new software. So she reset it back to works condition and it was still causing issues, After two years they eventually relented and supplied new one. But boy did it take a battle. Same with her Sony tv that went AWOL, we had to use an independent specialist to support her case. But I try and buy elsewhere so as not to curry favour.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Mine was doing similar just after the warranty expired. I plugged an old keyboard into the USB port and it's worked fine ever since.

 

[Jcloughie]

Sometimes taking it back to factory settings can restore things if they have become corrupted. But you will have to reinstall your OS and software. If this is as purchased originally, there may be a hidden partition from which you can restore. Otherwise, if you can download some cloning software and create a rescue disk as well as saving your data. You might be lucky.

A friends laptop keyboard gave trouble. I tried to pursuad her to buy a cheap new machine as it was very very old. But she preferred to part with £50is pounds for a battery and keyboard. With the help of YouTube, I fitted the new keyboard. It was still a useless and outdated machine and 6 moonths later she bought a new one.

John

 

[Woodentop]

Very common problem with a D*** (and used to happen with some Compaqs as well) is that the keyboard connector becomes detached. You will probably have to remove the base and then find the screws that hold the keyboard in place. Remove them and lift the keyboard to access the connector. Depending on model/age it may be a small multi-pole plug or it may be a push-connector ribbon.

 

[Raywood]

Given that it is over 6 months old you would need to show that the fault was as a result of a defect which is almost impossible for most of us. If you can get the retailer to check it for you and trust them to tell the truth as to the fault t might be wise to ask them to fix it and if they say it was faulty then ask for the repair to be free. Not idea, but that is where you stand.

 

[Ukdave2002]

CRA 2015 really only covers statutory rights, you do have other legal rights, the most relevant in this matter being that:

"Goods must be 'fit for purpose' AND 'last a reasonable length of time"

Your recourse should be with the retailer, I would argue that its perfectly reasonable to expect a main brand laptop last longer than 18 months. When you demonstrate that you know your legal rights as well as your statuary rights, you will be surprised how quickly resolutions are offered!

 

[Bluetonic]

You could try downloading one of the linux OS's (I like Linux Mint) where you can run a "live" version from a USB drive and you could then test the Keyboard to assertain if the fault is software or mechanical.
You can also install it alongside Winblows if you are lucky and have a dual OS laptop or do like I have on several old laptops at home and just run Linux.
Takes a bit of time to learn how to use everything but it's so nice to be away from the Micro$o£t ecosystem



*at your own risk*

 

[Sam Vimes]

I suppose it was inevitable that CRA2015 would get a mention.

The OP's machine was out of warranty and words like 'reasonable length of time' are really meaningless.

Things break and we'd all like them to last for ever but that's never going to happen.

Of course CRA2015 won't carry any weight in respect of software failures.

 

[JTQ]

You could try downloading one of the linux OS's (I like Linux Mint) where you can run a "live" version from a USB drive and you could then test the Keyboard to assertain if the fault is software or mechanical.
You can also install it alongside Winblows if you are lucky and have a dual OS laptop or do like I have on several old laptops at home and just run Linux.
Takes a bit of time to learn how to use everything but it's so nice to be away from the Micro$o£t ecosystem



*at your own risk*

IMO that's a good way to analyse if the keyboard and its interface is the issue, needs no more than using a spare USB stick , any one above 8GB.
Then boot the computer from that stick, and run the Linux OS from that, don't opt to install it.
If you want detailed guidance on this some of us here could guide you via PMs if preferred.

You might also try using the "virtual keyboard" feature already I suspect on your computer.
See this LINK if Mirco Soft
Using this where you type with your mouse would probably give a pretty good hint if the keyboard hardware was the underlying issue.

Reinstalling a clean "new" Windows OS is easy with MS computers of your laptop's vintage.
Either from "D" Support with your Tag #, or from MS.
Again we can guide you.

 

[Sam Vimes]

There's a lot of similar things you could but it takes some time and specifically knowhow.

I've run Windows 10, various flavours of Dos, Linux and ChromeOS from a Usb stick but it can get complicated and in the end I always go back to Windows because of the investment I've made over the years in Windows only software.

 

[JTQ]

There's a lot of similar things you could but it takes some time and specifically knowhow.

I've run Windows 10, various flavours of Dos, Linux and ChromeOS from a Usb stick but it can get complicated and in the end I always go back to Windows because of the investment I've made over the years in Windows only software.

I certainly was not thinking that the OP would or should move from their Windows OS, but they could use another OS, such as one of the user friendly Linux OS to investigate if the laptop's keyboard issue is a physical one or a software related one.
IMO, way better than taking it to bits to try and find something physical, at least till you ae confident that is what is the issue.
I agree though that it needs a bit of understanding, particularly where the BIOS is not looking for a USB boot, but its not unduly challenging, at least IMO.

 

[Buckman]

Very common problem with a D*** (and used to happen with some Compaqs as well) is that the keyboard connector becomes detached. You will probably have to remove the base and then find the screws that hold the keyboard in place. Remove them and lift the keyboard to access the connector. Depending on model/age it may be a small multi-pole plug or it may be a push-connector ribbon.

Once to restart the unit, the issue is no longer present so unsure if there is an issue with keyboard connector. I still have my old Asus laptop which has Win 10 on it and serious considering going back to using that unit.

 

[Buckman]

I certainly was not thinking that the OP would or should move from their Windows OS, but they could use another OS, such as one of the user friendly Linux OS to investigate if the laptop's keyboard issue is a physical one or a software related one.
IMO, way better than taking it to bits to try and find something physical, at least till you ae confident that is what is the issue.
I agree though that it needs a bit of understanding, particularly where the BIOS is not looking for a USB boot, but its not unduly challenging, at least IMO.

I am not familiar with Linux OS or how to go about the machine booting into Linus instead of MS. The other concern is that I have Outlook plus MS Office? Very unsure, but game to give it a go.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Two posts have given sightly incorrect information

CRA 2015 really only covers statutory rights, you do have other legal rights, the most relevant in this matter being that:

"Goods must be 'fit for purpose' AND 'last a reasonable length of time"
...

Fit for purpose and last a reasonable time are all part of the CRA.

and

...

Of course CRA2015 won't carry any weight in respect of software failures.

The CRA also includes issues with software,

But with both these points its not always easy to bring the CRA to bear. Each case has to be considered on its own and judged against the key performance criteria the CRA invokes.

 

[Dustydog]

Is it worth getting a Dell Agent to do a diagnostic at your own expense and say what’s wrong? Ie software or physical link?
Have you checked the various D… forums for people with similar issues?
Do D… advertise their products will NOT last more than one year😉

 

[Milkfloat]

Have you run the Dell diagnostic tests? Repeatedly press F11 whilst the machine is booting up.

 

[Beachball]

i am looking at this subject with interest i just got a newish Dell laptop and so far fantastic but i hope you get yours sorted

 

[Buckman]

i am looking at this subject with interest i just got a newish Dell laptop and so far fantastic but i hope you get yours sorted

If you do not take out the service contract when the warranty finishes, don't be surprised if you start having hassles.

I suppose it was inevitable that CRA2015 would get a mention.

The OP's machine was out of warranty and words like 'reasonable length of time' are really meaningless.

Things break and we'd all like them to last for ever but that's never going to happen.

Of course CRA2015 won't carry any weight in respect of software failures.

Very correct as how does the consumer prove that the fault existed at time of purchase even if the Internet is full of people with similar issues? An impossible task and the suppliers know this so the consumer is the loser.

My software is basically Eset anti virus, MS Office, Corel Paintshop, Epson and apps that came with the laptop.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Two posts have given sightly incorrect information

Fit for purpose and last a reasonable time are all part of the CRA.

and

The CRA also includes issues with software,

But with both these points its not always easy to bring the CRA to bear. Each case has to be considered on its own and judged against the key performance criteria the CRA invokes.

Like much of CRA2015 there are some not very precise statements. Software, for example Windows or MS365, is classed as digital content but the guidelines indicate that there is a difference between buying say an MP3 music file and complex software like the examples I've given.

The guidelines indicate that it's reasonable to expect your music file to play correctly or when that the CD/DVD or download for your other software is run the media should not be faulty and installation can work. However in the case of complex software it's acknowledged that bugs may be inherent in the programs.


With most software you don't own it when you hand over your money. What you are buying is a license to use it and if you look at some T&C's you'll see statements that you use it 'As is' and at your own risk with no expectation that bugs will be fixed.

 

[Buckman]

Like much of CRA2015 there are some not very precise statements. Software, for example Windows or MS365, is classed as digital content but the guidelines indicate that there is a difference between buying say an MP3 music file and complex software like the examples I've given.

The guidelines indicate that it's reasonable to expect your music file to play correctly or when that the CD/DVD or download for your other software is run the media should not be faulty and installation can work. However in the case of complex software it's acknowledged that bugs may be inherent in the programs.


With most software you don't own it when you hand over your money. What you are buying is a license to use it and if you look at some T&C's you'll see statements that you use it 'As is' and at your own risk with no expectation that bugs will be fixed.

I agree with what you are saying, but with the keyboard issue it is unlikely to be a third party software and more than likely the software that came with the laptop on day one.

However either way you are snookered as just about impossible to prove anything. Annoyingly it is a high spec I7 laptop with 16GB RAM. I don't really want to re-format the laptop hoping that the issue will be resolved.

 

[Sam Vimes]

If you do not take out the service contract when the warranty finishes, don't be surprised if you start having hassles.

Very correct as how does the consumer prove that the fault existed at time of purchase even if the Internet is full of people with similar issues? An impossible task and the suppliers know this so the consumer is the loser.

My software is basically Eset anti virus, MS Office, Corel Paintshop, Epson and apps that came with the laptop.

What's even worse is that future updates often break what was working. This morning there are reports that those updating to Android 14 on some Google Pixel devices now have endless cycles of reboots and the possibility of lost data.

 

[Sam Vimes]

I agree with what you are saying, but with the keyboard issue it is unlikely to be a third party software and more than likely the software that came with the laptop on day one.

However either way you are snookered as just about impossible to prove anything. Annoyingly it is a high spec I7 laptop with 16GB RAM. I don't really want to re-format the laptop hoping that the issue will be resolved.

In my experience most keyboard failures are in the mechanism and not software related.

That's not to say it's impossible for software to get it wrong, just unlikely.

The software associated with scanning the keyboard for an input is multi-layered. If you're seeing a problem in Word for example the key stroke has gone through a number of other processes before it gets to your screen or printer.

I can't recall a case when a key input failure was restricted to just one program.

Do you have another external keyboard that you could plug into a Usb port for example. If that works ok then perhaps that's another pointer to a mechanical problem on the in built keyboard.


Threatening the machine with an Axe is often a good cure.😁😁😁

 

[Buckman]

In my experience most keyboard failures are in the mechanism and not software related.

That's not to say it's impossible for software to get it wrong, just unlikely.

The software associated with scanning the keyboard for an input is multi-layered. If you're seeing a problem in Word for example the key stroke has gone through a number of other processes before it gets to your screen or printer.

I can't recall a case when a key input failure was restricted to just one program.

Do you have another external keyboard that you could plug into a Usb port for example. If that works ok then perhaps that's another pointer to a mechanical problem on the in built keyboard.


Threatening the machine with an Axe is often a good cure.😁😁😁

However character keys work, but the output the incorrect character. The keys that do not work at all are the delete and also the down key. Page up and down do work.

 

[Sam Vimes]

The keyboard keys are usually wired in a matrix arrangement, so several keys will share the same X or Y coordinates. Which can mean that if there's a broken track or dodgy connector several keys on the same row or column will result in the wrong or no recognised output.