Large response to Caravan Club Letter

[Andrew_374383565]

It is now 11 months since I started an awareness campaign regarding delamination, effecting any caravan or motorhome fitted with Polyplastic NL windows.

At the beginning of July the total number of owners who had registered with our site www.caravanandmotorhomewindowproblems.co.uk amounted to well over 2000.

The Caravan Club kindly printed a letter this month, on the subject, which to date (2 weeks) has generated over 2300 responses.

Here are a few.(obviously with relevant dealers blocked out)....

"please can we register on your site

our caravan was 2 years old when its windows started to leak we went back to xxxxx caravans they said nothing to do with them we went to xxxxxx of xxxxxxx they told us to take the stoppers out of the windows to let out the water we did not do this it took us 3 years to save up the £1500.00 to replace the front windows over that time water got into the self the front wall down into the cupboard. polyplastic did not want to know about the windows the caravan repair man that replaced the windows phoned xxxxxx and poly plastic to tell them why the windows had leaked with no joy we can not sell our van now if we want to

its nice to hear people are trying to do something about it thank you"

or another.

"I to have a Burstner 500TS/2003 (from new) with exactly the same problems as you have mentioned on your website and in the 'Caravan Club' article and when I queried it with my dealer some years ago I got nowhere, any help or light you can shed on this problem will be appreciated"

or another..

"Our problem seems to be that when travelling the outer skin pushes inwards and rubs against the inner panel leaving a mark on both panels. When viewed from the outside it looks like a giant soup bowl.

We are very lucky to have a very helpful dealer who is replacing the affected windows without question. It is the manufacturer who is to blame for making sub-standard units.

We write this only to register our problem"

Or another...

"Washed the caravan this morning and noticed afterwards water on the inside of the window. The inner and outer have split apart over all the bottom edge and one side. This is from a 2006 Abbey 215 GTS Vogue. The caravan is just over 4 years old. My supplying dealer is no more so I contacted Swift explaining that I am yet another customers with this known problem. They are not interested in making any contribution to replacing the window. There is clearly a manufacturing or design fault here. The failure is the screen printing on the inside of the outer pane has come away from the outer pane."

So many owners are in despair, they cannot re-sell or except a massive loss on a valuable asset.

Over the coming weeks, I have enlisted help to cross reference and document dealer and manufacturer responses.

Our next step is to confront Polyplastic NL and their agents Miriad with the facts and publish their response.

 

[Icemaker]

ive not had any problems of this nature with any of our vans (all coachmans) but thanks for posting this as i will keep my eye out for any of my friends with this problem. good to know someone has taken the initiative to do something.

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi ........we have 23 Coachmans on our lists.......most dating from 2002 to 2006 with delamination and the later more recent cavity rubbing.......thankyou for your comments Andrew

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Yesterday morning I mentioned this problem to a chap on the next pitch who had a one year old Ranger GT60. He hadn't heard of it and after going and cleaning his window the problem was there which he admitted he thought was dirt.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I wish Andrew success with the approach to Polyplastic and Mirriad, But as I have pointed out previously, in the UK we have the Sale Of Goods Act, which in my view Clearly places this issue as far as end users are concerned in the hands of the seller (Dealer).

The issue here is to be able to prove the windows are faulty and that the fault was present at the time of sale, even though it may not have manifested its self until some time after sale. Polyplastic have admitted publicly that some batches of windows were faulty. The difficulty is proving the fault also occurs on windows from other batches.

Even though the fault is not of the sellers making, the legal responsibility under SOGA is with the retail seller for selling goods that are faulty at the time of sale.

Assuming the person whose response was listed first in this thread was referring to a UK caravan purchased in the UK should have insisted the seller repaired or replaced the windows. But as they denied any responsibility the customer should have taken them to court under SOGA.

The warranty time limit under SOGA is not specifically defined, except as being within the normal life expectancy of the product, and if goods have an inherent fault such as this with the windows, claims as old as 6 years are quite possible.

I guess that with sufficient proven evidence of a longterm underlying issue, that a court may allow older claims to succeed.

If enough sellers (Dealers) were being brought to book about reneging on their legal responsibilities under SOGA, they would be in turn pressurising the caravan manufactures and setting off a chain reaction that would eventually get back to the company or person who is responsible for the fault., and that may be the primary window manufacture.

I have a strong suspicion that Polyplastic will claim, the caravan manufactures have at least part of the responsibility, as each window designs will be a unique joint development project between the caravan manufacture and Polyplastic. Joint development costs and joint design inputs.

In support of the above argument, all PP will have to do is show that a single design of window using the same materials and construction techniques over the same production period has not failed. That will cast doubt on the design of the windows that has failed rather than the manufacturing processing.

Andrews action against Polyplastic may take several years.

 

[Surfer]

Again after serious debate and consulation with my peers i have coem to the conculsion that the fault lies with the manufacturer and not one else there fore the manudfacturer is to blame!

Regards,

Prof Surfer BA(Hons), BSc(Hons) MBA, LLB, etc etc

 

[Parksy]

Whoever is to blame a caravan owner who has faulty or delaminated windows should initially contact the dealer who sold them the caravan.

Unfortunately those who bought via private sales have no protection under the sale of goods act

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Seemed to have gained an awful lot of nobility and highly qualified comment..thankyou for that...

Back to the subject in hand..the large response from the Caravan Club, I have to ask why ,2000 plus owners have registered complaints in just over 3 weeks.

Reading some of the correspondence, leaves you in little doubt that the two major window design faults, have delivered a considerable amount of distress.

Delamination, caused by using the wrong grade screenprint accounts for the majority, but an ever growing pile of evidence is bringing to light the cavity rubbing problem.

From the facts so far, delamination defects started around 1997 and continued until approx 2006/2007, a period of 10 years.owners started to complain as early as 2000 and we have correspondence to prove that Polyplastic NL were aware of this fault around this period.

Now from my professional engineering days , I know that a batch would at best continue perhaps one or two months, tooling changes and wear would preclude a longer period. It is inconceivable that one batch could provide windows for a 10 year period, in fact evidence again shows that many batches were run over this period, even after the knowledge, that there was a serious fault in design...modern manufacturing techniques such as "just in time" would also have a role to play.

It is probable, that the screenprint was introduced without checking specification and that its effect on the window bond was overlooked, what is more difficult to understand is how the manufacturers, knowing from 2000 that a serious problem had come to light, continued to produce to the same specification.

I have been privileged, since starting the registration campaign, to read a large amount of correspondence from the manufacturers, dealers and owners, something not possible as a private individual ...I have been left with absolutely no doubt that there is a case to answer, I also know that it will difficult to take on a large manufacturer, however with nearly 5000 registered owners and more everyday, it might just be possible..only time will tell

Thankyou once again for everyone's input, this really helps when testing our case and whatever the comments they are much appreciated.

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Whoever is to blame a caravan owner who has faulty or delaminated windows should initially contact the dealer who sold them the caravan.

Unfortunately those who bought via private sales have no protection under the sale of goods act

Hi.......What does an owner do, when the dealer has gone out of business.....20% of owners who have contacted us have this problem...regards Andrew

 

[Dustydog]

Parksy

If Andrew is successful in his campaign then there is a remote chance Polyplastic may do the decent thing and replace ALL defective windows irrespective of where they were purchased from.

I'm not holding my breath but at least Andrew is trying!

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Parksy]

If both Andrew and Dustydog had read my post properly I wrote:

'Whoever is to blame a caravan owner who has faulty or delaminated windows should initially contact the dealer who sold them the caravan.

I'm not advising anyone not to contact Andrew's website, that's their decision but whether the manufacturer is reported to be 'at fault' or not the contract of sale only exists between a caravan buyer and the dealer and not manufacturers of any component fitted to the caravan.

I wish Andrew and his fellow campaigners every success but if a caravan buyer finds that their caravan is fitted with faulty windows they must first contact their supplying dealer to seek redress

Where dealers have ceased trading or private sales are involved then of course Andrews website is the best place to seek advice and help.

 

[Andrew_374383565]

Hi Parksy.......thankyou for your reply.....no crticism intended...we have an awful lot of owners who's dealers have gone out of business....the window manufacturers and their agents know this and are using this factor to their advantage.

Thankyou again Dusty Dog......we are fighting a difficult battle and any words of encouragement are greatly received......regards to you both Andrew

 

[AJB]

Hi, registered today after noticing delamination of front outer windows over last weekend and finding this thread.
I contacted my supplying dealer today - they weren't interested..saying the window problem at present was one of 'rubbing' panes. They didn't know of issues with delamination. I don't know if towing will exacerbate the problem butI've bought a towing cover to try and prevent further damage/loss of the outer pane - I don't want to be the cause of a motorway pile-up! p.s. my 'van is a 2001 Abbey Belmont (aka Abbey GTS215)