Law on Over Night in a LaybyBy

[jackwinguk]

Hiya all,
just an observation I have made over the last few months on my way to work......there's been a british 4x4 with a caravan (foreign registration plate) parked up in a layby on the A444 most evenings when I go home and is there in the morning. I must say that it does seem to move sometime during the day though as it is in different position in the layby, often parked quite badly (half on the verge and half on the layby). It is connected to a generator in the back of the 4x4 with a lead running out to the caravan, the rear window is often open. The final observation is that it has never had its legs down........I have contacted the local council to highligh this but only every got a "we'll pass this on" reply... Surely If I was to drive somewhere and decided to overnight in a layby, I'd be breaking the law.....Hhhhmmmmm, your thoughts.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Personally I wouldn't want to stop in a layby although a lot of motorhomers do. They also haven't got a good name regarding emptying out the toilet contents before leaving the layby. It could be a work man who is too tight to pay the cost of a CL. Whoever it is it shouldn't be happening.

 

[RogerL]

In England & Wales, it's not specifically an offence to camp overnight in a layby - BUT - a number of local authorities have local by-laws which does make it an offence in that area, signs in the layby will show when that's the case. In any case, failure to move on when requested by a police officer is an offence of obstruction - BUT - HGV drivers can't be moved on if they're "out of hours" so the best thing is to claim you're just resting as you're tired. The council can only issue a 28 day notice I believe.
As LB points out, most laybys are diabolical and best not used even for a few minutes but there are a few, usually as a result of road straightening which are set back off the road itself and not subject to abuse by locals or visitors.

In Scotland it's slightly different - signs for "No Camping" have no legal standing but either a council official or a police officer can require you to move on, failure to do so is an offence.
I use laybys and forest carparks on the journey up to the far north of Scotland and never been moved on - you really need to select in advance using Google Earth and Streetview - the last one I used was at Rogie Falls near Inverness, it even has toilets!
Traditionally, Scotland has welcomed wild camping as it was always done responsibly but recently the increase in irresponsible camping, albeit a minority, has led to restrictions in the Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park which may well be followed by restrictions in other areas.

 

[joeby]

police officer can require you to move on, failure to do so is an offence.
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if its an offence , why arent gypsie's prosecuted

 

[TonyG]

police officer can require you to move on, failure to do so is an offence.
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if its an offence , why arent gypsie's prosecuted

Probably because they would not bother turning up in court, or pay the fine

 

[JoannaLesley]

It's interesting how different people's perceptions are! I remember a similar circumstance on the A49 outside of Hereford some 3 years or so ago. A small caravan was parked there each morning through an autumn and much of a winter. The setting was slightly different each day and the caravan was often covered in frost. Clearly it moved during the day, as it was never there on my way home. The layby is divided from the road by greenery and is often used by lorries. I assumed that some poor soul was homeless, possibly due to a marriage breakdown. Certainly, he had moved on by the end of the winter. It never occurred to me that it might be a worker too mean to pay for a CL! (PS It could have been a woman, I suppose, but I think most lone women wouldn't risk it)

Jo

 

[SirRogerFFS]

Ive tried several times to post on here today and so far without any luck .
Ill try again ,The reason for not being able to prosecute gypsies is because of thier no fixed abode address

 

[joeby]

wether you pay for a CL or not , i believe under caravan club rules you are not allowed to pitch on a CL , and go off to work , its just for holiday purpose only , i got warned about it a few years ago when i was doing some work on my daughters house even though it was unpaid

 

[RogerL]

wether you pay for a CL or not , i believe under caravan club rules you are not allowed to pitch on a CL , and go off to work , its just for holiday purpose only , i got warned about it a few years ago when i was doing some work on my daughters house even though it was unpaid

It's not just CLs nor the CC rules - it's any touring site, ie excluding only residential sites - so any CL, CC club site, C&CC CS's and club sites as well as commercial touring sites.
But it's not an issue as you're not required to give a reason why you're staying somewhere.

 

[DavidO]

This is a difficult topic, What do you do when one member of the ocupiers is working and the other is on holiday. To add to this as a cl owner, have I the right to ask the reason for the visit? and might I not be upsetting thier human rights by asking?.As an aside I would add some 20% of our visitors do some sort of work wilst on site. Just to add to this how do you work the 28day rule when there is no time limit before the van can return. In my book common sence prevails.

David O

 

[anotherDavid]

wether you pay for a CL or not , i believe under caravan club rules you are not allowed to pitch on a CL , and go off to work , its just for holiday purpose only , i got warned about it a few years ago when i was doing some work on my daughters house even though it was unpaid

It's not just CLs nor the CC rules - it's any touring site, ie excluding only residential sites - so any CL, CC club site, C&CC CS's and club sites as well as commercial touring sites.
But it's not an issue as you're not required to give a reason why you're staying somewhere.

I was under the impression that CC sites were for holidaymakers but on several visits to Commons Wood CC site in Welwyn Garden City there have been large vans with the telltale big propane bottles and huge motorhomes with taxis parked outside. These were obviously being used as a base to work from, but as they were not bothering me I didnt ask anything about it.
There is an interesting use of laybyes going on in France , on several Routes National, motorhomes can be seen parked up with "ladies" outside who are obviously "working"or more correctly looking for "work"
David

 

[Sproket]

wether you pay for a CL or not , i believe under caravan club rules you are not allowed to pitch on a CL , and go off to work , its just for holiday purpose only , i got warned about it a few years ago when i was doing some work on my daughters house even though it was unpaid

It's not just CLs nor the CC rules - it's any touring site, ie excluding only residential sites - so any CL, CC club site, C&CC CS's and club sites as well as commercial touring sites.
But it's not an issue as you're not required to give a reason why you're staying somewhere.

There is an interesting use of laybyes going on in France , on several Routes National, motorhomes can be seen parked up with "ladies" outside who are obviously "working"or more correctly looking for "work"
David

Hello Darling

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I was stopping on a CS near Mansfield recently whilst visiting my mother and there were two caravans there with workmen. One had his wife with him who stayed in the van. They went home on weekends.
Again a few years ago when my daughter and family were between houses we let them stay in our place while we spent four weeks on a CL at Holme Lacy. There was a chap there who went off to work while his wife stayed on site. She must have been bored because there was no bus service.

 

[RogerB]

Oo la la Sprocket.Votre femme est tres joli.

 

[hgv dave]

hi all
as a hgv driver i do use laybys for over-nighting but only when my hgv is empty or loaded with something which is either hard to steal (24 tonne of paper reels) or is of no use to anybody (waste plastic)....anyway in all my time (26yrs) i have never seen a caravan parked in the same layby as me....a motorhome yes....but not one of those like in france.....saying that i have been woken up more than once by a "lady"........asking me if im all right............at 1.00 am...............what do you think i said to her?

hgv dave

 

[Bill.D]

Reply to hgv dave:- "Come in and find out" ??
Bill D

 

[RayS]

When I frist joined CC in 1967 the map which came with the handbook showed laybys which were long enough to park in. Several times en-route London to Scotland used them but wouldn't like to now. Progress ?

 

[otherclive]

We live near a canal which attracts the maritime travelling types and on numerous occassions their visitors turn up in converted vans with make shift wood burners etc. They park on the through road and estate roads and live in their vehicles. There is one around at the moment which is a really rough old US RV. Last year we had one with a wooden shed living space on the back of a pick up which did not move for weeks. Police said no law being broken as vehicle was taxed insured and road worthy, council were reluctant to get involved. Final scene came though when police called late at night, and incumbent had had a few drinks.... whilst still being in charge of a motor vehicle on a public highway. He may not have planned to drive with alchohol inside him but at 0230 in the morning he had no defence.

 

[RogerL]

That's a downside of motorhomes - if you're in the vehicle you're in charge of it which is just as much an offence if you're over the drink-drive limit as actually driving, even if you genuinely have no intention of driving.

 

[kopite]

Hi all
As already posted i`m a HGV driver and stay in lay by`s 4 times a month with the french and the poles but its the motorhomes i dislike with their comfy beds,tv,kettle,home comforts etc.Also thought about booking into cc sites instead of lay by`s but they are fully booked already.Bloody caravanners

 

[kopite]

hi all
as a hgv driver i do use laybys for over-nighting but only when my hgv is empty or loaded with something which is either hard to steal (24 tonne of paper reels) or is of no use to anybody (waste plastic)....anyway in all my time (26yrs) i have never seen a caravan parked in the same layby as me....a motorhome yes....but not one of those like in france.....saying that i have been woken up more than once by a "lady"........asking me if im all right............at 1.00 am...............what do you think i said to her?

hgv dave

you wait till Jason taps on your window

 

[Willi-Wonti]

That's a downside of motorhomes - if you're in the vehicle you're in charge of it which is just as much an offence if you're over the drink-drive limit as actually driving, even if you genuinely have no intention of driving.

You could still be done in a motor home parked on a camp site

Drink drive offences also rely on the vehicle being driven on a highway or place to which the public have access. So if the offence occurred on private land and it can be shown it is not a place open to the public a defence may be in play. Some land with private land notices are still considered to be public places. For example, car parks, camp sites and hotel forecourts will still be considered open to the public.

Information taken from http://www.solicitorservice.co.uk/drink-drive-issues/