Just had van serviced & damp was found with a reading of 28% ,mechanic thinks awning rail leaking ,the van is less than 2year old & after getting in touch with the supplying dealer they can't get the van in until mid July just to damp test it & then submit the claim to lunar which could be another 2/3 months before they OK it, the question I am asking is leaving it this long would surely cause more damage, the wallboards are visibly stained plus whatever damage to the core.the supplying dealer is charging me £60 to damp test it because they didn't service it although it was serviced by a ncc registered mobile fitter.would appreciate any thoughts on this
Leaky lunar
- Thread starter lordmonty
- Start date
- Aug 23, 2009
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The problem itself (the damp) is not an unusual one. I know our NCC approved workshop can put in the warranty claim for everything except Bailey, and indeed quite a few times on our previous Coachman's. It doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of things to charge. I would come back to them with the report which is on appropriate paperwork from NCC approved workshop and insist they just put in the claim. They are just having a paddy because you didn't use them for the service. If they still refuse go direct to Lunar with a summary of the problem and the attitude of the dealer. I'm sure Lunar will get things shifting for you. I'd use a different dealer for buying the next van.
I am more concerned about the damage it can potentially do with leaving it what could be several months,it was dry last year when I had it serviced so it must have happened in the last year, I did give lunar a ring but all I got was tea and sympathy, thanks for the input
- May 7, 2012
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Our Lunar was serviced in March but on visiting it yesterday we found what looks like a damp patch. I am having a mobile engineer look at it as the dealer is some 40 miles away and will see what he says.
Basically all caravan makes have a fair percentage of leaky ones so whatever you buy it is just a matter of luck.
I am afraid that the longer it is left the worse things might get so I would tell the dealer that if it is not dealt with quickly you will be taking legal action. If the damp is limited to one area then £60 looks high but they are entitled to check it but not in several weeks time.
Basically all caravan makes have a fair percentage of leaky ones so whatever you buy it is just a matter of luck.
I am afraid that the longer it is left the worse things might get so I would tell the dealer that if it is not dealt with quickly you will be taking legal action. If the damp is limited to one area then £60 looks high but they are entitled to check it but not in several weeks time.
- Mar 14, 2005
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lordmonty said:
Hi.
You do have statutory rights automatically afforded to you, and depending if you contracted to purchase before 1st Oct 2015 or after will determine if its the Sale of Goods Act or the Consumer Rights Act. Under the circumstances of teh caravan being two years old, the difference between the two acts principally lies in the number of repairs the dealer has before he is obliged to refund the value of the goods. Bearing in mind you have had two years service from the caravan the current value ( as if no fault was present) is not what you paid for it.
However look up your rights under the SoGA or the CRA ass approporiate and consider if you should claim under the scheme. It won't be straight forward becasue of teh age of the van, but in principle it is unreasonable for a two year old caravan to leak - provided it has not been abused or damaged, so the caravan as sold was not sufficiently durable as required by the act.
The important difference about using your statutory rights vs the manufacturers guarantee, is the claim you make is against your seller who by selling a faulty product has breached the terms of your contract. As such the manufacturers opinion about the validity or otherwise of the claim is totally irrelevant, and they cannot direct the outcome of a statutory rights claim.
Be warned, as the caravan is more than six months old, the onus falls on you to gather enough evidence to show the caravan was faulty at the time of purchase, of at least had an inherent fault which has led to the water ingress.
If you can make the case, then teh seller is responsible and must make repairs or if agreed a refund as quickly as is reasonably possible as the customer should be inconvenineced as little as possible.
Another possible string to your bow is if you used a fiance package to purchase the caravan and if you are still paying it off, then the finance house holds a joint responsibility for the condition of the goods untill the debt has been paid. It would certainly be worth contacting them and claiming under section 75 of the consumer credit act
If all this is too much for you then I'm afraid you are at the mercy of the Manufacturers Guarantee and teh terms and conditions there in. Basically if you have not complied with every term of the guarantee, the manufacturer can walk away as you are in breach of contract.
Hi there, I too have damp issues with a 2 year old Lunar. The fault is a jointing strip between the front panel and the roof, not being wide enough. I've had damp readings up to 60% in places. Dealer has done a temporary fix by laying down a bead of silicone either side of the strip.I was told that Lunar were aware of this problem but as only a small number of 'vans were affected there was no "recall". A full 4 months after notifying the dealer of the fault, I'm still waiting for parts from Lunar. From Monday, I will be away, apart from the odd couple of days, until mid September, I have no intention of altering my plans. Hope you have better luck and a speedier resolution. Rick.
hi just an update my local dealer [not the supplying one]put a warranty claim in june & got the ok from lunar & still waiting for the parts so lunar has had 6 months to get it sorted but this is a very poor show
- May 7, 2012
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We had to wait about three months for parts from Lunar but the repair had to wait until later as we needed the caravan. That is about par for the industry. I am surprised that they have taken that long and I would speak to the dealer and if no success then contact Lunar.
If you have no joy from either I would get in touch with the dealer and point out your legal rights as the Prof's post and point out unless you have a date for the work to be done then you will be raising a claim in the small claims court for damages.
If you have no joy from either I would get in touch with the dealer and point out your legal rights as the Prof's post and point out unless you have a date for the work to be done then you will be raising a claim in the small claims court for damages.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Raywood said:
Hello Ray,
As Lordmonty points out the work is not being done by the supplying dealer, so there is no Consumer Rights interest involved. As regards teh length of time the manufacturer is taking, the OP would need to consult the terms and conditions of the manufacturers warranty to see if there is any reference to time schedules within them. I suspect the small print will absolve the manufacture of any liability resulting from delays to repairs under the warranty.
Do however bear in mind that the manufacturers warranty is still a contract, and as such there is requirement for it to be fair.
I therefore wonder: If the T&C allow the manufacturer to drag their corporate feet over initiating agreed repairs, then despite any clauses that absolves the manufacturer of any subsequent liability for consequential losses, might be deemed unfair, if the product is unusable or becomes unusable as a result of delays, or if the value of the product is adversely affected.
- May 7, 2012
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Hi Prof, I have to admit I missed the point about the work being done by another party. As I said though we had a similar issue with our Lunar and while the parts supply was not exactly rapid it was about what you expect from the industry. and the timing suited us anyway, so we are reasonably happy. I do think that Lunar need to be contacted direct as the delay seems just too long and it makes me think something has gone wrong somewhere and it should be capable of being resolved quickly.
I agree there is a contract with Lunar, they give the guarantee in return for you buying the product so there is the necessary legal requirements met although I cannot ever remember seeing a case involving this.
At the end of the day the supplying dealer is still responsible for the problem legally but the use of a second dealer for the warranty work does complicate this. In the circumstances I think they need to be contacted.
The charge of £60 for a damp check is unreasonable. What it needed was a reading at the point damp was detected not everywhere and in our case as the roof lining was stained the problem was obvious although the dealer took a reading to establish the extent of the problem.
I agree there is a contract with Lunar, they give the guarantee in return for you buying the product so there is the necessary legal requirements met although I cannot ever remember seeing a case involving this.
At the end of the day the supplying dealer is still responsible for the problem legally but the use of a second dealer for the warranty work does complicate this. In the circumstances I think they need to be contacted.
The charge of £60 for a damp check is unreasonable. What it needed was a reading at the point damp was detected not everywhere and in our case as the roof lining was stained the problem was obvious although the dealer took a reading to establish the extent of the problem.
- Jun 20, 2005
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The Manufacturers Warranty / Guarantee is subject to a number of provisos.
Interestingly it is not an automatic right. According to the Lunar website and data in the owners handbook full registration must be made with Lunar . I have to assume this applies in respect of brand new models and any subsequent purchase by another of a used model. By registering I suspect you willingly enter into a Contract accepting the terms and conditions even if they appear unfair.
hmy:
I can find no reference to consequential losses that may arise nor any time scales.
It seems to me you have to bite the bullet and let them do the work at their own pace. :woohoo:
Don't forget the Manufacturers Warranty does not affect your rights under The CRA etc.
Interestingly it is not an automatic right. According to the Lunar website and data in the owners handbook full registration must be made with Lunar . I have to assume this applies in respect of brand new models and any subsequent purchase by another of a used model. By registering I suspect you willingly enter into a Contract accepting the terms and conditions even if they appear unfair.
hmy:I can find no reference to consequential losses that may arise nor any time scales.
It seems to me you have to bite the bullet and let them do the work at their own pace. :woohoo:
Don't forget the Manufacturers Warranty does not affect your rights under The CRA etc.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Dusty,
You don't tell us which manufacturers warranty you have looked at, as there is no set common document each manufacture may well have different T&C's.
You are absolutely correct that the manufacturers warranty is not an automatic right, however it is usually part of the paperwork when you buy a new caravan, and you do have to register your wish to take it up by completing the registration documents for the scheme.
If as you tell us there is no set time scales for the manufacturer to follow for completing accepted claims, then in teh absence of any protocol, it lays them open to claims for unreasonable delays, becasue if nothing else in consumer based contracts, the clauses spelt out and consequential actions must be seen as reasonable.
Having accepted liability to deal with an issue under the warranty, the manufacturer should act reasonably to limit any further deterioration of their product during the time it takes to effect the remedy. If they fail in that regard then I believe they should/could be liable for consequential losses.
I have just posted a link to an honest John web page about consumer rights, and one of the points it raises is about signing for contracts where the T&C's are not available prior to signing. the party making the offer would have difficulty making any unclear or unreasonable limitations in the T&C's stick if it were challenged in court.
You are quite correct about the consumers continuing rights under the CRA, for the purchase, but of course that only has currency with the supplier, and nothing can legally usurp that contract. The CRA now also incorporates goods AND services, and whilst no cash was exchanged with the manufacturer for the manufacturers warranty, it is a contracted service and as such the warranty policy is subject to the provisions of the CRA, in so far that if the warranty fails to provide the service it claims, that is actionable under the CRA.
You don't tell us which manufacturers warranty you have looked at, as there is no set common document each manufacture may well have different T&C's.
You are absolutely correct that the manufacturers warranty is not an automatic right, however it is usually part of the paperwork when you buy a new caravan, and you do have to register your wish to take it up by completing the registration documents for the scheme.
If as you tell us there is no set time scales for the manufacturer to follow for completing accepted claims, then in teh absence of any protocol, it lays them open to claims for unreasonable delays, becasue if nothing else in consumer based contracts, the clauses spelt out and consequential actions must be seen as reasonable.
Having accepted liability to deal with an issue under the warranty, the manufacturer should act reasonably to limit any further deterioration of their product during the time it takes to effect the remedy. If they fail in that regard then I believe they should/could be liable for consequential losses.
I have just posted a link to an honest John web page about consumer rights, and one of the points it raises is about signing for contracts where the T&C's are not available prior to signing. the party making the offer would have difficulty making any unclear or unreasonable limitations in the T&C's stick if it were challenged in court.
You are quite correct about the consumers continuing rights under the CRA, for the purchase, but of course that only has currency with the supplier, and nothing can legally usurp that contract. The CRA now also incorporates goods AND services, and whilst no cash was exchanged with the manufacturer for the manufacturers warranty, it is a contracted service and as such the warranty policy is subject to the provisions of the CRA, in so far that if the warranty fails to provide the service it claims, that is actionable under the CRA.
- May 7, 2012
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I agree with the Prof's approach but cash does change hands for the guarantee. Basically the manufacturer includes a provision in the price of the product to cover the possibility of a claim under the guarantee so in buying you pay this although the exact figure is not specified in the contract.
The Lunar guarantee does require registration which can be done by e mail. I would agree that unreasonable delay will leave the manufacturer potentialy liable for damages but as far as I can see the extent of this has not been tested in court. However even if any delay has caused additional problems these would have to be dealt with during the repair as I see it.
Personally given the position here I would get in touch with the selling dealer and explain the position to them and say if they are unable to sort the matter out you will have to pursue them, hopefully they can put pressure on Lunar assuming that is where the problem is.
The Lunar guarantee does require registration which can be done by e mail. I would agree that unreasonable delay will leave the manufacturer potentialy liable for damages but as far as I can see the extent of this has not been tested in court. However even if any delay has caused additional problems these would have to be dealt with during the repair as I see it.
Personally given the position here I would get in touch with the selling dealer and explain the position to them and say if they are unable to sort the matter out you will have to pursue them, hopefully they can put pressure on Lunar assuming that is where the problem is.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Ray,
I am fully aware that manufactures ( not just caravan manufactures) build a margin in to their trade price and the recommended retail price of goods to cover the cost of running their manufacturers warranty provisions.A customer will pay that unwittingly as its part of the base price of the product, and if the customer does not avail themselves of the warranty, that becomes clear profit to the manufacturer.
As far as I am aware in the caravan industry, there is no option for a customer to decline paying that sum as its is not separately identified in the tariffs and charges billed to the customer. But crucially the retail payment is not made to the manufacture but to the seller, so no direct cash link is established between the customer and the manufacturer.
For teh customer to avail themselves of the benefit to a Manufacturers warranty , they have to register the purchase of teh goods or service directly with the manufacturer. No cash is involved, but that does not prevent the CRA from seeing it as a consumer rights issue requiring the product (i.e. the warranty terms and conditions and the actions when it is invoked) as been as described, fit for purpose, and free from defects.
The purpose of a manufacturers warranty is to enable the consumer to have confidence that if any fault withing the manufacturers liability under the policies T&C's arises, that it will be dealt with professionally and in a timely manner. So excessive avoidable delays call into question the efficacy of the warranty and thus its fitness for purpose.
I am fully aware that manufactures ( not just caravan manufactures) build a margin in to their trade price and the recommended retail price of goods to cover the cost of running their manufacturers warranty provisions.A customer will pay that unwittingly as its part of the base price of the product, and if the customer does not avail themselves of the warranty, that becomes clear profit to the manufacturer.
As far as I am aware in the caravan industry, there is no option for a customer to decline paying that sum as its is not separately identified in the tariffs and charges billed to the customer. But crucially the retail payment is not made to the manufacture but to the seller, so no direct cash link is established between the customer and the manufacturer.
For teh customer to avail themselves of the benefit to a Manufacturers warranty , they have to register the purchase of teh goods or service directly with the manufacturer. No cash is involved, but that does not prevent the CRA from seeing it as a consumer rights issue requiring the product (i.e. the warranty terms and conditions and the actions when it is invoked) as been as described, fit for purpose, and free from defects.
The purpose of a manufacturers warranty is to enable the consumer to have confidence that if any fault withing the manufacturers liability under the policies T&C's arises, that it will be dealt with professionally and in a timely manner. So excessive avoidable delays call into question the efficacy of the warranty and thus its fitness for purpose.
- Jun 20, 2005
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For teh customer to avail themselves of the benefit to a Manufacturers warranty , they have to register the purchase of teh goods or service directly with the manufacturer. No cash is involved, but that does not prevent the CRA from seeing it as a consumer rights issue requiring the product (i.e. the warranty terms and conditions and the actions when it is invoked) as been as described, fit for purpose, and free from defects.
Hi Prof
Do you think the CRA is wide enough to give us mere mortals the same legal rights against the manufacturer as well as the selling dealer? If I have misunderstood you my apologies.
Hi Prof
Do you think the CRA is wide enough to give us mere mortals the same legal rights against the manufacturer as well as the selling dealer? If I have misunderstood you my apologies.
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Dusty
Short answer No.
The rights it will afford is that teh warranty is worth the paper its printed on, and when( note - not "if") the caravans fails in some way you should have the power to force the manufacture to honour the warranty in a timely and proper manner.
Short answer No.
The rights it will afford is that teh warranty is worth the paper its printed on, and when( note - not "if") the caravans fails in some way you should have the power to force the manufacture to honour the warranty in a timely and proper manner.
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