hi i wonder if anyone could tell me if its safe and legal to fit a 12v light in the front gas locker.many thanks
light in gas locker
- Thread starter john_5126924
- Start date
Yes it is safe, there was one fitted as standard in our old van, you could fit the cupbord type that has an L.E.D insted of a bulb and has a built in switch that comes on when you open the cover. think they are made by labcraft and are on that well known auction site. 
What a great idea, i have never even thought about installing a light in there. genius!
All the times i have held a torch in my mouth while moving all my crap trying to find the blue and i never even gave it a thought. (Maglites are bloody heavy on teeth)
Guess what i will be doing on Saturday morning.
All the times i have held a torch in my mouth while moving all my crap trying to find the blue and i never even gave it a thought. (Maglites are bloody heavy on teeth)
Guess what i will be doing on Saturday morning.
Whilst some older vans did have a light and switch in the gas locker its very much a no no today. It is not safe, there should be no electrics at all within a gas locker. To do this safely you need intrinsically safe equipment and the cost would be prohibitive. Not even LEDs with there own battery should be used. Keep safe.
Put a light on the "A" frame cover shining into the locker as was also done on at least one older van. It's much safer.
Hi JTQ,
Re "Whilst some older vans did have a light and switch in the gas locker its very much a no no today. It is not safe, there should be no electrics at all within a gas locker"
My Bailey Senator Series 5 (2006) has a gas locker light fitted as standard and I see that the new Series 6 is the same !
Re "Whilst some older vans did have a light and switch in the gas locker its very much a no no today. It is not safe, there should be no electrics at all within a gas locker"
My Bailey Senator Series 5 (2006) has a gas locker light fitted as standard and I see that the new Series 6 is the same !
Most DIY stores sell cheap battery operated bulkhead type lights for sheds and stores which you can simply stick or screw to just about any surface. We saw some recently in a Wilkinsons store at about
Well I stand corrected in part, however it remains a very dangerous thing to. I cant understand how Bailey dare do it; should [when] an accident occurs they would be in a defenceless position.
I advise on these subjects professionally.
Bailey do fit a light in the gas locker but it is switched from inside the caravan
The one in our Senator is awaste of time and space as its very dim and its easy for things in the locker to obscure the light.
I disconnected ours and used the wiring to operate a tank fill pump via a relay---all outside the locker.
The one in our Senator is awaste of time and space as its very dim and its easy for things in the locker to obscure the light.
I disconnected ours and used the wiring to operate a tank fill pump via a relay---all outside the locker.
My 2006 Ace has a lamp built into the A frame cover. I remember in days gone by when I used to have the battery in with the gas bottles and use croc clip type clamps for connection. I wonder how many actual accidents there were due to similar arrangements. I suppose gas lamps were also phased out for safety reasons - I thought they were great.
hi ray c
most of the old vans were like that 4 of mine were 2 of them home built jobbies gas bottle either side battery in the middleworked a treat never a problem .
as for a light in the locker im with mike ace what a brill idea
never thought of it I shall be fitting one
colin
most of the old vans were like that 4 of mine were 2 of them home built jobbies gas bottle either side battery in the middleworked a treat never a problem .
as for a light in the locker im with mike ace what a brill idea
never thought of it I shall be fitting one
colin
Lazy caravanners like me have Osram LED dotit push lights that have adhesive pad base.
Bright white light,batteries last for ever. Pack of 3 from B&Q or Ebay for less than a tenner with no messy wiring to route and ideal in caravan lockers or under seat storage.
Bright white light,batteries last for ever. Pack of 3 from B&Q or Ebay for less than a tenner with no messy wiring to route and ideal in caravan lockers or under seat storage.
Hi guys,
I've seen some duff information in my time, and this thread has all the makings for being one of the better ones.
Is it safe? Can you use common sense? Can you assess the risks yourself?
Basically no to all questions. Why?
Is it safe?
As long as there isn't a leak, then it's safe.
If there is a leak, and the light works properly, then it's safe.
But if there is a leak, and the light is switched and the light or the switch has a fault - then no. Gas / air explosions are more powerful than the equivalent weight of TNT
Can you assess the risk yourself?
Many people play the lottery, happily accepting odds of 14,000,000 to 1, believing in the chance of a win
There are many caravan fires each year, from a much smaller population of caravan owners, giving much, much greater odds - but no one believes it will happen to them
So no, people happily waste money on wishes that won't come true, but ignore the much greater possibility of deadly accidents.
Can you rely on common sense?
What's the likelihood of a series of events (gas leak, and a faulty light switch causing a spark) happening to cause a problem?
Well the best example of common sense going wrong and a chain of interlinked failures is the "c@ck-up" made by the UK caravan industry over the new EN gas installations.
Regulator mounted at the bottom of the gas locker, gas pig-tail runs down-wards to the regulator, regulator mounted upside down (high pressure input on top), wrong grade of rubber tubing used - each "error" isn't a problem and if they had corrected just one of these defects, then there never would have been a problem with blocking regulators. As an aside the German designers did it right - all 4 points where the UK designers failed were correctly implemented in European caravans.
So should you mix electrical lights with gas lockers?
No, but people will do anyway and most will suffer no bad consequences - by ignoring the reasonable risk of a very bad outcome.
Robert
I've seen some duff information in my time, and this thread has all the makings for being one of the better ones.
Is it safe? Can you use common sense? Can you assess the risks yourself?
Basically no to all questions. Why?
Is it safe?
As long as there isn't a leak, then it's safe.
If there is a leak, and the light works properly, then it's safe.
But if there is a leak, and the light is switched and the light or the switch has a fault - then no. Gas / air explosions are more powerful than the equivalent weight of TNT
Can you assess the risk yourself?
Many people play the lottery, happily accepting odds of 14,000,000 to 1, believing in the chance of a win
There are many caravan fires each year, from a much smaller population of caravan owners, giving much, much greater odds - but no one believes it will happen to them
So no, people happily waste money on wishes that won't come true, but ignore the much greater possibility of deadly accidents.
Can you rely on common sense?
What's the likelihood of a series of events (gas leak, and a faulty light switch causing a spark) happening to cause a problem?
Well the best example of common sense going wrong and a chain of interlinked failures is the "c@ck-up" made by the UK caravan industry over the new EN gas installations.
Regulator mounted at the bottom of the gas locker, gas pig-tail runs down-wards to the regulator, regulator mounted upside down (high pressure input on top), wrong grade of rubber tubing used - each "error" isn't a problem and if they had corrected just one of these defects, then there never would have been a problem with blocking regulators. As an aside the German designers did it right - all 4 points where the UK designers failed were correctly implemented in European caravans.
So should you mix electrical lights with gas lockers?
No, but people will do anyway and most will suffer no bad consequences - by ignoring the reasonable risk of a very bad outcome.
Robert
Hi Robert,
In general electrical most switches can cause a spark when being opened or closed. This is not a fault, it is the fact that the rate of change of energy transfer is great, and any inductance and or capacitance in the circuit(both of which are naturally occurring phenomenon of electrical circuits)can sustain a spark with enough energy to ignite a gas air mixture. Filament lamps are less prone to this compared to florescent lamps.
There are 'contact suppressors' in some switches, but you never know in advance if they are working or have failed, and thus will not suppress.
Hence the advice of: if you smell gas to not operate any electrical switches, if their on leave them on and if their off dont turn them on.
Assuming that a gas leak could occur whilst mobile or stationary.
Where do the risks lay from over run and flame flashing from a car exhaust or Piere's Gauloise spraying sparks across the A16.
Am I the only one to have seen the odd smoker peering into their front locker?
Having pulled my curtains and sat in our darkened caravan failing to get a spark from either Dot it LED torch or caravan light switch should H & E exeuctive be called in or do I need a visit to a GP for sleeping tablets.
Where do the risks lay from over run and flame flashing from a car exhaust or Piere's Gauloise spraying sparks across the A16.
Am I the only one to have seen the odd smoker peering into their front locker?
Having pulled my curtains and sat in our darkened caravan failing to get a spark from either Dot it LED torch or caravan light switch should H & E exeuctive be called in or do I need a visit to a GP for sleeping tablets.
Maybe a better idea to fit a switch on the door itself therefroe when you open it, the switch is well away from any gas. However as gas is heavy, any escaping gas should seep out the vents at the bottom of the locker so it shoudl make no diffeence either way. A light especially in the winter would be very handy. Alternatively for the light in the locker a timing switch could be fitted inside the caravan wand ould probably be the ideal solution safety wise.
I've had and/or fitted 12v lights in front lockers for many years without too many worries.
No one seems to have mentioned that LPG is heavier than air, so if there is adequate ventilation through the floor of the locker, then there should be no problem - unless you have a very bad cold and can't smell the gas. The odourising substance used is detectable by nose (average - whatever that means) around 1 part per million.
If you want to fit a light and be safe, use LEDs but have the switch somewhere else than in the locker. There is very little risk of an LED light - even if switched on - igniting a flammable mixture, but the switch could, due to a small spark generated as the contacts are nearly closed.
The phrase "intrinsically safe" in an earlier posting brings back happy memories of my working days, when all the instruments I put in to flammable atmospheres had to be so classified, requiring barriers in safe areas and very very high quality earthing - in one factory in Northumberland in 1970 we buried many
No one seems to have mentioned that LPG is heavier than air, so if there is adequate ventilation through the floor of the locker, then there should be no problem - unless you have a very bad cold and can't smell the gas. The odourising substance used is detectable by nose (average - whatever that means) around 1 part per million.
If you want to fit a light and be safe, use LEDs but have the switch somewhere else than in the locker. There is very little risk of an LED light - even if switched on - igniting a flammable mixture, but the switch could, due to a small spark generated as the contacts are nearly closed.
The phrase "intrinsically safe" in an earlier posting brings back happy memories of my working days, when all the instruments I put in to flammable atmospheres had to be so classified, requiring barriers in safe areas and very very high quality earthing - in one factory in Northumberland in 1970 we buried many
Hi Ray,
Yes, if you measure the bulk property of air and LPG, then LPG is indeed approximately twice as heavy as air.
But whilst a stream or leak of LPG (en mass) would tend to flow out the drop out vents (helped by the coldness of the expanding gas), once it starts to mix with air - the gases mix evenly with no real gradient. Otherwise Carbon Dioxide would lay on the ground and suffocate all the small animals
Designing systems for petroleum refineries, I'm always wary of mixing electricity with LPG - and there's sufficient energy in a 1.5 volt battery to initiate a spark and any subsequent bang.
Robert
Yes, if you measure the bulk property of air and LPG, then LPG is indeed approximately twice as heavy as air.
But whilst a stream or leak of LPG (en mass) would tend to flow out the drop out vents (helped by the coldness of the expanding gas), once it starts to mix with air - the gases mix evenly with no real gradient. Otherwise Carbon Dioxide would lay on the ground and suffocate all the small animals
Designing systems for petroleum refineries, I'm always wary of mixing electricity with LPG - and there's sufficient energy in a 1.5 volt battery to initiate a spark and any subsequent bang.
Robert
The self adhesive push button lights mentioned are 3 or 4.5 V ( I can not remember whether 2 or 3 AAA batteries) - the chance of getting a spark is almost negligible.
I can understand why you would not want a leisure battery or 12V electrics in the gas locker but do not believe these lights represent a significant threat.
Personally I have one of those LED headlamps and use this for gas locker/midnight toilet emptying/roadside repairs/lost teddies and other low light emergencies.
I prefer this as the light illuminates exactly where you are looking, I have also found that it costs me nothing in batteries because it will run for ages and ages on batteries no longer able to run other equipment.
I can understand why you would not want a leisure battery or 12V electrics in the gas locker but do not believe these lights represent a significant threat.
Personally I have one of those LED headlamps and use this for gas locker/midnight toilet emptying/roadside repairs/lost teddies and other low light emergencies.
I prefer this as the light illuminates exactly where you are looking, I have also found that it costs me nothing in batteries because it will run for ages and ages on batteries no longer able to run other equipment.
Must remember not to turn anything on in the caravan before checking that gas rings had been switched off fully.
Can anyone do the odds on getting run over stepping from tow car compared to having a gas leak that is ignited by an LED torch battery as I'm concerned about even getting in the car to tow now.
Risk assessment must think risk assessment, should I wear hard hat when entering the caravan or looking in locker in case hitting head causes mme to fall back and kill myself on hard standing.
Can anyone do the odds on getting run over stepping from tow car compared to having a gas leak that is ignited by an LED torch battery as I'm concerned about even getting in the car to tow now.
Risk assessment must think risk assessment, should I wear hard hat when entering the caravan or looking in locker in case hitting head causes mme to fall back and kill myself on hard standing.
I just remembered that I have one of those magnetic awning lights. I suppose if I plonk that on the side of the gas bottle it will work fine. When not in use, I can clamp it tp the spare wheel in the locker.
I think most of use have enough common sense to use our own brains about these matters. Personally, I think that these Health and Safety clowns need running out of town in this country, and they can take a back seat as far as my caravanning is concerned.
I am more than capable of making a sensible decision about my caravan and my family's safety, without their nanny state interference.
As I'm sure we all are.
I am more than capable of making a sensible decision about my caravan and my family's safety, without their nanny state interference.
As I'm sure we all are.
I used to own a Volvo V70 and had it converted to run on LPG, 72 ltr doughnut tank fitted in to the spare wheel well, under the car was the original 70 ltr petrol tank, with all the pipes entering in to the spare wheel well, and guess what, surrounded on all sides with electric cables,relays,switches, brake lights going on and off, indicators flashing away, millions of tiny sparks waiting to ignite the tiniest whiff of LPG, or the aroma of petrol fumes, it never happened, most probably never will, but yes there was a risk there, and of course a risk assessment had been undertaken, and if that was deemed to be safe, I feel pretty sure a self contained light fitted in your front locker, switched remotely, as in the case of my Senator will pose very little risk, and to air on the side of caution you could always open the front of the gas locker for a few minutes to allow for any gas to disperse before you operate the light, but personally I do not think it necessary.
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