List of Cars by Kerb Weight

[Alan03]

Hi all,

So after a couple of slight delays such as rearing two puppies lol we are now ready to purchase a caravan for next season. As my current car is only 1510kg I'm looking to change car and buy a caravan (we would like fixed single beds so average caravan MTPLM is circa 1490kg)

When faced with my position it seems to make sense to find a database of cars by kerb weight. After extensive searching on the internet I can't find such a database... Has anybody else come across a database of cars by kerb weight?

Many thanks for your assistance

 

[otherclive]

Whilst it would be a good idea I have never come across such a list. I’m afraid you will have try selecting a number of potentially suitable vehicles and then research kerbweights. One useful source is to look at PC, CCC, and CMHC annual tow car tests they would give you a spread of kerbweights and models.

 

[Damian]

The only site that I know of that has kerbweights, but you have to select a car, is Whatowcar.

I do not know of a website that lists every car and its kerbweight alone.

 

[Alan03]

Hi OtherClive,

Thanks for your response, yes it just kinda makes sense to be able to reverse search a car suitable for towing, rather than go through many review sites and then check which ones would have suitable kerb weight.

And yes I understand kerb weight alone may not create a suitable tow vehicle but it just seems to make sense. Am prob looking at 2000kg so that probably puts me into SUV territory anyway.

 

[otherclive]

Looks like you’ve attained your first objective. At 2000 kg you are in larger vehicle territory and it won’t take long to develop a shortlist. Don’t rule out large estates such as Audi, MB, Volvo etc.

 

[otherclive]

At 1495 kg MTPLM your 85% target would be just over 1750 kg. Why go fir something at 2000 kg if it’s not necessarily required. If you have previous towing experience with a caravan you can increase from 85% upwards. It’s only a guide but quite a useful one to start with.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Alan,

I totally agree it would be very useful to be able to search by a particular critera like kerbweight, Sadly its not likely to happen, for a couple of reasons.

The first is no manufacturer would take on a universal as it would mean collecting data from all the other manufacturers, and that's not going to happen,

And secondly manufactures are not legally required to state a kerbweight as part of their homologation requirement, unlike other factors such as GVW and unladen weight such as the data found on the vehicle registration document. so sourcing the information is not straight forward.

Part of the problem is the caravan industries guidance which is based on kerbweight, if they were to change it to ULW it would be a far simpler job to get the information.

Sorry but it looks like the hard slog of finding a vehicle you like the look of and then digging to find its kerbweight.

 

[Alan03]

OtherClive,

Yes so it started of at circa 1490kg for the caravan but it seems to be increasing as the 3 caravans available to us with fixed single beds was the Bailey Cadiz S3, Swift Callenger 565 SE? & the Lunar Clubman SB.

Unfortunately the first two caravans have one bed shorter than the other and me and my partner are virtually the same height and the latter has just gone out of business (and was the only configuration we really liked). This leaves me wary of buying a 3 yr old caravan with the company no longer in business.

So I'm now looking at the Adria Adora Seine DL which has MTPLM of 1700kg... Hence the 2000kg kerb weight.

 

[Lutz]

As the Prof says, manufacturers are not obliged to quote kerbweight, As kerbweight is specific to each and every vehicle it only makes sense to supply details of kerbweight in conjunction with the corresponding vehicle chassis number. This is because there can be significant differences in specification from one vehicle to the next. That is why there can never be an accurate database of vehicle kerbweights.
The mass in service figure on the V5c is different because that is a generic figure that does not necessarily (and usually doesn't) represent the actual weight. It is only the weight of the one vehicle of that type that was submitted for type approval purposes. It is almost invariably less than the corresponding kerbweight.

 

[Raywood]

I am afraid it is not simple. I bought a copy of What Car and looked at the power emissions and price for models that might interest me and then drew up a shortlist. I then looked up the manufacturers websites for more details to see what looked best.
Models in the same range vary quite a bit so you have to be very specific.
It is a long slog though.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Alan,

With your latest outfit proposal, you will be exceeding a combined MAM of 3500. If you passed your basic driving test before Jan 1997, then you will automatically have been awarded entitlement "Be" which covers all practical car and caravan combinations, but if you passed after that date your basic licence only gives you "B" which restricts you to an outfit not exceeding a combined MAM of 3500kg To tow that outfit with a post 1997 licence you will need to take the E extension test. to raise the combined MAM to 7500kg

But on a more general note, don't become a slave to achieving 85%, it is only guidance, and a few percent over is very unlikely to change the outfit from OK to a deathtrap.

 

[Lutz]

The only site that I know of that has kerbweights, but you have to select a car, is Whatowcar.

I do not know of a website that lists every car and its kerbweight alone.

As manufacturers aren't under any obligation to publish kerbweights and more often than not don't, I don't know where Whatowcar gets its information from.

 

[otherclive]

The only site that I know of that has kerbweights, but you have to select a car, is Whatowcar.

I do not know of a website that lists every car and its kerbweight alone.

As manufacturers aren't under any obligation to publish kerbweights and more often than not don't, I don't know where Whatowcar gets its information from.

Possibly the journalists/researchers contact the individual manufacturers. The car leasing companies will also publish kerbweights for models. How accurate they are is another question. But over the years I’ve obtained what are stated to be kerbweights. If I get three from various sources reasonably close I then go with it. Certainly not scientific by any definition but I’ve not had any qualms about any outfit stability either.

 

[Lutz]

Possibly the journalists/researchers contact the individual manufacturers. The car leasing companies will also publish kerbweights for models. How accurate they are is another question. But over the years I’ve obtained what are stated to be kerbweights. If I get three from various sources reasonably close I then go with it. Certainly not scientific by any definition but I’ve not had any qualms about any outfit stability either.

If you are satisfied with a rough figure for guidance purposes only, that's fair enough, but some people want a true figure for their particular car. Without reference to its chassis number that just isn't possible and I am sure manufacturers don't establish true kerbweights anyway for every car that leaves the production line.

 

[otherclive]

Possibly the journalists/researchers contact the individual manufacturers. The car leasing companies will also publish kerbweights for models. How accurate they are is another question. But over the years I’ve obtained what are stated to be kerbweights. If I get three from various sources reasonably close I then go with it. Certainly not scientific by any definition but I’ve not had any qualms about any outfit stability either.

If you are satisfied with a rough figure for guidance purposes only, that's fair enough, but some people want a true figure for their particular car. Without reference to its chassis number that just isn't possible and I am sure manufacturers don't establish true kerbweights anyway for every car that leaves the production line.

Sometimes “ the better is the enemy of the good enough”.
Sergey Gorshkov

So if as you say manufacturers do not specify the kerbweight for every car that leaves their production line it leaves the potential caravan owner with a bit of a dilemma. Hardly buy a new car and then take it away to a weighbridge. Not aware that many would test drive a used car and also take it to be weighed either. That’s why annual tow tests can be a useful source as I believe the cars are actually weighed. But even here there’s variability given the options ones preferred car might have that would potentially diverge from the tow car test figures.

One wonders how we have managed to pursue our hobby with such uncertainty

 

[Lutz]

If the vehicles submitted for the towtests are actually weighed that's very commendable, but as you say, how many of us will be buying a car to exactly the same specification? Besides, it is not uncommon to have relatively heavy items, such as towbars, fitted after the car has left the factory and these will raise the kerbweight. After all, kerbweight is not explicitly defined as an ex works weight.
I get the impression that most rely on what is shown as mass in service in the V5c. At least one can't go wrong by doing so as any weight ratio calculated on that basis is bound to be on the conservative side.

 

[otherclive]

If the vehicles submitted for the towtests are actually weighed that's very commendable, but as you say, how many of us will be buying a car to exactly the same specification? Besides, it is not uncommon to have relatively heavy items, such as towbars, fitted after the car has left the factory and these will raise the kerbweight. After all, kerbweight is not explicitly defined as an ex works weight.
I get the impression that most rely on what is shown as mass in service in the V5c. At least one can't go wrong by doing so as any weight ratio calculated on that basis is bound to be on the conservative side.

Agree that MIS is probably the best estimate. Interesting about towbar. Mine have always been fitted post delivery so I have always considered it to be part of the cars payload. But I guess if it is factory fitted then like selecting an auto gearbox which would be heavier than a manual it would be part of kerbweight. Must check to see if it would increase MIS.

 

[Lutz]

Whether factory fitted or not, a towbar would definitely not increase the mass in service, but the definition of kerbweight in UK legislation is very vague. It defines kerbweight, or kerbside weight as it is actually called, as, quote:

"the weight of a vehicle when it carries—
(a) in the case of a motor vehicle,
(i) no person; and
(ii) a full supply of fuel in its tank, an adequate supply of other liquids incidental to its propulsion and no load other than the loose tools and equipment with which it is normally equipped;

(b) in the case of a trailer, no person and is otherwise unladen."

Now what is considered to be 'normally equipped' is open to interpretation, but I would say that if the towbar is a permanent feature, it is normal.

 

[ProfJohnL]

....
One wonders how we have managed to pursue our hobby with such uncertainty

Hello Clive,

Good point indeed, and it goes to emphasis how inadequate the tow ratio calculation MTPLM/Kerbweight really is. It bears a very very very loose resemblance to the tow vehilcle.

There has to be a better way!!!!

 

[Brasso530]

I think the figures for car weights are vague,but you have to go off something as a starting point.As an example,when I was researching my Kuga I looked on Kuga owners forum and some found there cars 200kg over the stated kerb weight (by going to weight bridge)on v5.

 

[otherclive]

I think the figures for car weights are vague,but you have to go off something as a starting point.As an example,when I was researching my Kuga I looked on Kuga owners forum and some found there cars 200kg over the stated kerb weight (by going to weight bridge)on v5.

Good that they went in the right direction.

 

[Lutz]

I think the figures for car weights are vague,but you have to go off something as a starting point.As an example,when I was researching my Kuga I looked on Kuga owners forum and some found there cars 200kg over the stated kerb weight (by going to weight bridge)on v5.

That doesn't surprise me one bit, after all the V5c doesn't quote the kerbweight. It states mass in service and that, by definition, is almost certain to be less.

 

[Hutch]

Alan03, I use This site, https://www.parkers.co.uk/hyundai/santa-fe/estate-2012/22-crdi-style-(5-seats)-5d-auto/specs/ it gives the "basic" weight and also the towing weights.

https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-specs/

 

[ProfJohnL]

There are numerous tow matching sites and services, and all of them suffer from some problems mainly related to the range of models they have or with some data that is suspect or actually wrong.

As we have seen in this thread, kerbweight when it is provided by a manufacturer is not accurate, and if we believe some reports it can be out by a considerable margin, (200kg) that is a massive difference, and will have a knock-on effect on the tow vehicles presumed pay loose margin which has to be reduced other wise the cars GTW is likely to be exceeded!

Such large uncertainty about kerbweight has a signigificant effect on the the MTPLM / kerbweight calculation of towing ratio.

The towing ratio calculation fails to take into account the tow vehicles actual towing capacity, which might actually be less than 85% of kerbweight.

The 85% is only a recommendation, it has no legal authority, and it does not offer any guarantees that following it will produce a legal or safe to drive outfit.

I personally have found some outfits that were horrible to drive even with a ratio of under 85, and some that behaved very well at over 100% ratio, so I am never happy to rely on the industry guidance, I always feel it's an incomplete answer, but as long as it's treated sensibly, it is a starting point.

The 85% should never be used as a hard target, or as the holy grail of caravanning, but it does seem to have taken on a mantle of importance way above its real value.

As I commented previously there should be a better way that does take into account the vast array of technical information available about each vehicle, to weed out the illegalities that some outfits may have, and to improve safety.

 

[JezzerB]

Kerb weight PAH; look at what the car is slated to be able to tow-we have towed with a Dacia Duster at 95% of it's kerbweight for the last 5 years blissfully and with never a rock or a sway-load the van sensibly and put heavy stuff in the car! Controversial I know but after you have towed up to Scotland in Hurricane Brian without a wobble or issue (and no atc on the van) you get sceptical-not complacent as I am always aware of lorry wash/ gaps in hedges in high winds, but don't worry too much with a modern car!