Looking for a good tow car on a budget!

[MrBell]

Hi everyone, been doing lots of research and looking at prices for my next family car.
The criteria i have is it has to be pratical, nice big boot to carry two labs, enough power and weight to tow a good size caravan, and has to be economical as fuel prices are just going to go up up up!!
I have looked at quite a few cars and prices and ages. I think i have a short list for the sort of cars which match my criteria.
1. The citreon C5 2HDI, what car seem to like it and has good towing reviews
2. Vauxhall Insignia 2ltr i have heard mixed reviews on this car, some like it but has a hard ride, towes well but not many people have said much else
3. Skoda Octivia (if can find one cheap enough) again seems to be good but how good is it??
out of all three the citreon seems to be the cheapest and you get a few more gadgets with it as the other two seem to hold their value.
The problem i have (well its not really a problem) is i want to keep the car for long time,well 10yrs at least as its going to get used and will basically be run till it stops (also want to get my monies worth). Its going to have a hard life, towing and also the usual shopping and running around the houses stuff.
Does anyone have any cars or idea or even comments on the cars i have talked about. More comments the better as i really need to find a decent yet well built car which will be a good family car!
Age well i would prefer a newer car as will be keeping it for a while.
Thanks

 

[MrBell]

The citreon i am considering is a tourer by the way! just forgot to mention it on my main post!

 

[Gareth111278]

Hi
IMHO the Skoda is hard to beat, go for a deisel, its the VW engine, pretty bullet proof & good on fuel.
I'm not sure what weights are like though so you'd need to check its suitable for your caravan.
Good luck with the serch.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello MR Bell,

It is difficult to provide any really useful answers to you questions as you do not provide enough specific information about the exact year and model of cars you are looking at.

Most car manufactures will give a name to a model, then produce several different variations (Coupe, 4 door 2 door 5 door, estate sports, different trim levels etc). Even the same engine size can be available with different power outputs. Each variation may have different engine fuels and sizes and of course manual or automatic gearboxes, and then on top of that they may retain the same model name but make significant changes to the whole range a couple of years later.

One of the consequences of such diversity is that the cars detailed specification regarding towing capacities can be unique to each possible variant. In some cases one variation may have a very healthy towing capacity but other variations may not be allowed to tow at all!

Caravan manufactures have a similar culture - so again specifics are needed.

If we cannot identify the exact model of car or caravan you are looking at, no one can be certain the information they provide will be relevant to your questions.

Give us the manufactures exact model description and we may be able to give practical relevant advice.

Just as an example, you are looking for comments on the Skoda Ocatvia.

The model has been produced since 1998. It has had 2 design phases
In its Mk1 version 1998 to 2001 it had over 70 model variants made up from 8 engines 3 body styles, manual and automatic gearboxes and numerous trim levels.

The maximum braked towed weight limits vary from as low as 850Kg to a maximum of 1300Kg

The most recent versions have braked towed weight limits of between 1200 to 1400Kg

I'm not going to count all the variations but it looks like that over the three design phases there might be over 140 model variations - but all of them Skoda Octavia's! but each one different.

So which models are you considering?

 

[MrBell]

Hi ok here we go, i have been looking at the skodas and i like the Vrs TDi Skoda but that could be out of my budget! I have read the top 100 tow cars from camping and caravan mag and the 1.6 CR TDI octivia seems have preformed well as a tow car! I like the idea of having a car as economical as the 1.6 CR TDI BUT i really think the bigger engine the 1.9 TDI engine would be better just for the fact it has that bit more power. On the side of the age well im looking at a car which is no more than 2 yr old with not too many miles on it (meaning less than 50k as i will be putting miles on it!!)
I have given my self a budget of around 15k as you can alway barter the price and it gives me a chance to see what is out there. I know skodas are well built but they do seem to keep the price as they all have a premium on them.
As a matter of interest is the Vrs TDi Octivia from say 08 onwards is it a good tower even tho its a sports car?
On the side of the Citreon well i have seen one which is well in the 15K budget, its a citreon HDI 2ltr C5 Tourer VTR+ on a 58. Seems to have a strong engine but just dont know about bulid quality.
On the side of the caravan yes in a few yrs i will be wanting or shall i say needing a bigger van, so i really like the new baileys, the new orion 440/4 is a lovely van or the olympas 464/4 which is also a nice van, i wouldnt want any thing bigger. I do like the older baileys as well, i have a 460/4 ranger 2000 at the minute and i have seen a few bailey senators which are very nice!! but i wouldnt know if the Skoda or the Citreon would be able to pull that caravan.
I have also had a a look at the Vauxhall Insignia SRI 160 deisel which is very nice and again just in my budget but i dont know if that car will be able to tow a bigger van or it would coupe with all the work of a family car.
i used to pull the van i have now with a mondeo TDCI 130 but i want something different for my next family car as i had the ford for three yrs and its time for a change!
Any suggestions are welcome

 

[Surfer]

Are you looking for a manual or automatic? If manual. the 2.0l Mondeo would be hard to beat. Avoid the auto like the plague despite what PC magazine say!

 

[MrBell]

Now thats a hard decision as automatic sounds a good idea but manual im used to, so really either would be fine with me! Automatics all seem to be very expensive so i have been looking at manuals.

 

[ValA.]

Have you considered a Ford Mondeo? We've now had five as tow cars, with few problems, and generally cheap repairs. They can be cheap to obtain - older second hand ones are often from well-maintained fleets. Newer second hand ones are good prices. They have a good kerbweight for a car of that size, good space in the boot, and our current Mondeo Turbo Diesel tows well.
I know there's another post from me about car problems this holiday - but that's really been a one-off, and was sorted out relatively cheaply, too.

 

[MrBell]

I have had a Ford mondeo a Mk3 TDCI and i have to admit it did tow very well, just thought about getting a different car, BUT i have to admit the mondeo was a great car and had more than enough space for what i want. I just thought that there maybe a different car which will be simular of even the same as a mondeo for performance and space ect but i am now wondering if i should just get another mondeo. I know you can pick one up at a reasonable price.
Does anyone tow with a Skoda Octivia or the Citreon who can give me some idea on what they are like??

 

[Gareth111278]

Duplicate Post

 

[Gareth111278]

Re the 1.6 / 1.9 deisel Skodas, Check the torque figures for both engines, its torque that get you up hills not power!
I'm amazed what power they get out of small engines these days , clever engine maps and turbos work wonders.
Also, I bet the 1.6 is better on fuel & lower road tax than the 1.9.

Gareth

 

[MeonIan]

Hi
Well I have had 4 Octavias, all of them the 1.9TDi, not the most refined diesel but well proven, that's why all the taxi drivers around here have them. The first one was 90bhp the rest have been 105bhp. My current caravan is the same as yours, Ranger 460/4 S6 mtplm 1208kgs. Kerbweight on my Octavia is 1400kgs and max tow 1400kgs. I am very happy with the performance of the outfit and would probably go up to van weighing 1250kgs ish but probably not up to the maximum tow limits. I am sure the car will perform comfortably but I always like a safety margin. To be fair I've been thinking of my next change due next year and we are also thinking of changing the van (looked at the Orion, don't like it so looking around again) and if we go for something around 1300kgs I may be looking at other cars than the Octavia, possibly the Superb, slightly heavier and prob the bigger diesel engine but that's next year!! Good luck with your search.

 

[Firkle]

If you have £15K to spend then look at a 2/3 year old VW Passat 140TDI. Very responsive and will tow all day at the legal limit no matter which country you are in. Hills are no problem with 1300kg attached and the manufacturer's spec is even higher.

Regards

 

[Lutz]

its torque that get you up hills not power!

Please don't start that discussion all over again. Plenty of torque, by all means, but torque is only half the story. In the end it's power that determines whether you get up the hill or not. Without the engine turning at enough revs at the same time, even a limitless supply of torque is not going to do the job. (Power = torque x revs)

 

[JonnyG]

its torque that get you up hills not power!

Please don't start that discussion all over again. Plenty of torque, by all means, but torque is only half the story. In the end it's power that determines whether you get up the hill or not. Without the engine turning at enough revs at the same time, even a limitless supply of torque is not going to do the job. (Power = torque x revs)

I agree with you lutz "Torque " is only half the story. or as i would say "bhp" is only half the story

 

[MrBell]

If you have £15K to spend then look at a 2/3 year old VW Passat 140TDI. Very responsive and will tow all day at the legal limit no matter which country you are in. Hills are no problem with 1300kg attached and the manufacturer's spec is even higher.

Regards

I do like VW cars but i think they are over priced for what they are. They seem to hold value which means you have you to buy an older model to get what i want. I am trying to get a newer car with a few extras on. The mondeo seems to be cheaper and can get more for your money, BUT build quality isnt as good as a VW, i would consider a VW if could find one not too old with a few extras on.

 

[Lutz]

I agree with you lutz "Torque " is only half the story. or as i would say "bhp" is only half the story

I have no issue with that. Both are equally important as torque is one of the two variables that determine the horsepower.

 

[xtrailman]

Avoid the C5, its prone to early flywheel failure.
Chap i fish with had a new one, and he didn't tow , failed in the first year with low miles.
Some years ago the VW products took a nose dive in quality, chaps i worked with who were VW nuts, had that many problems they moved to such as Skoda, the same group i know.
From the latest JD power.
Skoda joint 3rd, VW joint 10th, Citroen joint 18th, in the manufactures category.
In the league table Octavia joint 11th, passat joint 20th, C5 joint 72
I would personally concentrate on buying a Skoda, the Superb did well winning the towcar of the year some time back.

 

[JohnGriffiths]

I'll go against the majority here and say go for the C5. They usually have all the extras you want plus self levelling suspension. And for a fixed budget you'll get a car several years younger. I had two (first and second generation) and both were superb as tow cars, and problem free. There are times I wish I hadn't replaced mine with an X-Trail.

 

[MrBell]

ok so is the C5 good or bad?? I gather i can get a decent car for my money if i go with Citreon? What about the build quality on Citreons? I understand that VW do have a good build quality but they are over priced!
I have found mondeo's in my price range with decent kit on them! BUT the citreon does have more kit on them. I cant make my mind up at the mo.
I really like the superb estate BUT they are so expensive!!!!! even when i have been looking at pre reg they are so over priced for a Skoda.

 

[xtrailman]

There cheap because no one wants them.
I have never read anything negative about skoda.
I would be interested in one myself, but i think there now expensive, and i hate that front grill.
in 2000 i tested most of the VW range that i was interested in, bora, golf, A3, A4.
In the end i bought a A4 Audi Quattro Avant, quality but at a price, but they do hold there value.
I moved on to the xtrail's from there, i would have bought a Q5, but 80kg nose limit wasn't enough.

 

[JonnyG]

Avoid the C5, its prone to early flywheel failure.
Chap i fish with had a new one, and he didn't tow , failed in the first year with low miles.
Some years ago the VW products took a nose dive in quality, chaps i worked with who were VW nuts, had that many problems they moved to such as Skoda, the same group i know.
From the latest JD power.
Skoda joint 3rd, VW joint 10th, Citroen joint 18th, in the manufactures category.
In the league table Octavia joint 11th, passat joint 20th, C5 joint 72
I would personally concentrate on buying a Skoda, the Superb did well winning the towcar of the year some time back.

Ray, if the citroens where "prone" to early flywheel failure's, then you could surely add peugeot to that list and indeed the mk4 mondeo too, as they share the same engines., and some other makes too. Flywheels or rather daul mass flywheels, are a wear part these days, sure like anything there will be cases of early failure. but that can apply to any make. VW have also had the issues with the DMF and therefore as they share the same engine with Audi Seat amd Skoda that would apply equally to them as well.
Actually think the Citroen is a very good second-hand buy, not too sure about keeping it for 10 years though, but then not sure about keeping anycar 10 years.

 

[seth1]

We have an early c5 in our family.An early 2.2hdi model(138hp) which belongs to my dad.Its now near the 200k mark,it hasnt been treated the way it should but thats some thing else.In 7 years its had a crank damper,windscreen which really only the bonding failed and it fell out,and the dosing tank filled up for the after treatment.Original clutch,flywheel,dpf etc.PSA have a good idea when it comes to diesel engines and always have.As regards to vag,personally and this is my opinon i wouldnt touch a 2.0tdi and especially an earlier 2.0pd unit.The 1.9tdi,s were brillant,the 2.0tdi is a joke,water problems,cam lobe problems,crank gear problems which lead to oil pump failure and to top it all off the first 170hp,s were all flashed to 150hp on the first service due to dpf,s blocking up!Go for the citreon.

 

[MrBell]

thanks for all the advice on cars, i can see what i need to look for and what to stay clear of. I have to agree and say the vw and skoda are very good makes and the build quality are good. i am thinking of test driving the citreon C5 2ltr hdi estate as it has loads of room and seems to be cheaper, but i will also be testing the mondeo as well. While i was looking at the two cars i saw a mazda 6 estate and hatch, the hatch is very nice, any one have any experiance towing with a mazda 6? The only reason i ask this is i saw one for sale which is cheaper than the citreon and a newish mondeo!

 

[xtrailman]

thanks for all the advice on cars, i can see what i need to look for and what to stay clear of. I have to agree and say the vw and skoda are very good makes and the build quality are good. i am thinking of test driving the citreon C5 2ltr hdi estate as it has loads of room and seems to be cheaper, but i will also be testing the mondeo as well. While i was looking at the two cars i saw a mazda 6 estate and hatch, the hatch is very nice, any one have any experiance towing with a mazda 6? The only reason i ask this is i saw one for sale which is cheaper than the citreon and a newish mondeo!

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=70841
Early cars had lots of these problems.