Low Towbar on Honda CRV

[brockley98]

Hi I wonder if any one can advise me?
I have a 2005 Honda CRV diesel that I have towed a Coachman pastiche 420/2 with these past 4 years. The car pulls well and is generally very stable, but despite taking care to keep my noseweight to reasonable limits (around 85kg) the Coachman was always a bit nose heavy, largely due to to the towbar which is angled somewhat downwards. I have recently upgraded my van to a Swift Charisma 230 and the problem is much worse with the jockey wheel only a few inches from the ground when retracted and the rig looks nose heavy. I took the car to a Witter towbar specialist and he said nothing could be done to raise the towbar (which is only just over the legal limit when unloaded) and helpfully suggested I change the car! i'm wondering if fitting something like spring assistors, load levelling shocks or pump up air shocks would improve matters without creating any handling problems. I don't really want to change the car yet as it has only done 40k miles and in 5 years of motoring the only thing that has failed is the dashboard light for the cruise control!
Any advise would be gratefully recieved

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I have fitted MAD spring assisters to several cars always with good results
On the other hand my friend has a Swift/Honda CRV combination and although the caravan is nose down its acceptible
It may be worth having your suspension height and springs checked

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello brockley98
You will need to check with you car dealer or the manufacturer, but the Honda CRV may be classed as exempt for the tow bar height regulations, but if not then when fully loaded to the maximum allowance it must rest between 350 and 420 mm from ground to centre of the tow ball.
If it fails in that regard, then something is wrong with the car.
It is never necessary to fit spring assistors, as the car manufacture will have made all the necessary adjustments to keep the car within limits with all appropriate loads.
Fitting assistors does change the cars spring rates and will have an effect on its handling. Fitting assistors does not change or increase any load capacities. It is a modification to the running gear, and you should inform your car insurers. Some people do fit assistors, but it can only to make the car look more aesthetically correct.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I agree that car - caravan set up looks more aesthetically correct and that has been my main reason for using spring assisters etc in the past
You only have to drive along the M6 to see many vehicles that may be right spec wise but don't look right and give the appearance of being overloaded when its just poor match between tow ball height and van coupling height
My present Ford Kuga car is not in need of any assisters as it rides with caravan slightly nose down and handles really well but its the first for over a decade since the Citroen BX with self levelling suspension left the fold
The benefit when needed for actual car/ van experience is more than aesthetic and avoids costly repairs to the A frame covers and jockey wheels when they come into contact with the road and each other
This is not helped by the inside the A frame jockey wheel position and some badly designed A frame covers that don't allow full JW retraction
I have never been disappointed with results from using MAD products
The ride has not been impaired and body roll has been reduced in vehicles from the Picasso to the X Trail while ride height has been maintained on tow with better see through on caravans with rear windows as a bonus

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,
If a towbar is too low, then quite simply it is either overloaded or there is something else wrong with the car. Just because something looks wrong, does not make it wrong. The EU regs are designed to reduce the possibility of a mismatch between tow ball height and the trailer hitch, by setting a standardised range of loaded tow ball heights.
As for damage to a A frame covers etc, provided the car is to spec, then that is down to the driver not reading the road ahead properly.
Anything that changes the way a vehicle responds to normal road conditions is a change to the manufactures specification, and thus the normal ride. Clearly the car manufacture disagrees with you if you prefer a less compliant ride.
Seeing through a caravan, is a bit hit and miss and depends on the combination of vehicle and trailer. There is no legal requirement for a see thorough line of sight, But I do agree the more information available to the driver the better decisions they can make.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi John
As always a stimulating debate!
The tow bar may be too low because of wear in the springs /suspension in a vehicle such as the OP posted
I have had damage to my A frame cover and it was due to the pneumatic JW contacting a speed hump in France
The A frame cover as fitted to many Swifts is badly designed in that the lowest part of the top is just where the JW needs to be pulled up
It the towbar is at the minimum height permitted and the van coupling is at max height permitted then the caravan will have a marked nose down attitude and this is more apparent as bigger wheels are being fitted to accomodate the greater weights of todays well equipped caravans
13 in wheels were the norm at one time
I personally think that its common sense if you have a problem to acknowledge it and fit spring assisters rather than wait for grounding to happen
Not everyone can afford cars with self levelling suspension and the fact that you can go into Halfords,Motor World etc and they have Grayston etc spring assisters on the shelf shows that they believe there to be a demand and they must sell them so the problem is not isolated
i agree with what you say that they should not be necessary but this thread comes up a lot from different people in the real world who need rear suspension boosting as the standard set up is inadequate for their needs

You can just see the awning light fitted on the A frame cover to hide the split damage
Regardshttp://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p84/johng_016/Towbarprotector005.jpg

 

[ProfJohnL]

hello again John,

The caravan manufacturers are obliged to manufacture their caravans to accommodate the full range of the tow bar heights,so they would not be made to the top end of the range, otherwise they would need to say what height of tow ball their caravans needed. Clearly that would be highly restrictive and the customers would not be able to tolerate it and probably contrary to the EU directives.

I note that you sustained damage with a pneumatic jockey wheel. Was this the supplied jockey wheel? or one that you subsequently fitted? Pneumatic wheels tend to be larger diameter and that means that they may not retract as far as their solid forerunner and thus provide less ground clearance.

If the tow ball is too low and everything is otherwise within tolerance, then the tow bar is faulty by design, and should be replaced for not being fit for purpose.

As previously stated the Honda CRV may not be subject to these regulations, so clarification must be sought from the dealer or manufacture.

 

[brockley98]

Thanks John
I'll have a look at some assistors I think.
Regards
Brian

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Hi John
The pneumatic tyre is an addition but it could go higher and does on our present Bailey as the A frame cover is of a better design
I notice that the new WOW factor Swifts have now adopted the same design A frame as on the Bailey
It seems to me that most manufacturers use the standard Alko chassis but with different size wheels.
I wonder if the suspension is different to allow for coupling height
I doubt it as our Bailey with smaller wheels rides much leveller than the Swift did on its 15 inch ones
The JW and chassis are both made by Alko and the pneumatic tyre is much better at coping with slight ridges/kerbs when using the motor mover
Its all a compromise but I have found that using spring assisters has been beneficial in every instance and have never thought of removing them because they made things worse
I can only answer from my own experience
It would be interesting to know ex works coupling heights for a range of new vans
Regards

 

[Dustydog]

My Sorento is fitted with a very simple but effective self levelling suspension. The special Sachs shock absorbers always return to the factory preset height irrespective of load.
I wonder if these shockers are generally available for other makes of vehicle?

They just seem such an excellent idea to me.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

They aren't available for all cars as it depends on suspension design (which is a pity)
When I parted with the last of the Citroen BXs I decided to get Armstrong ride height adjustable shock absorbers that could be pumped up if needed
So far several vehicles later I haven't had a car that they are available for

 

[Dustydog]

They aren't available for all cars as it depends on suspension design (which is a pity)
When I parted with the last of the Citroen BXs I decided to get Armstrong ride height adjustable shock absorbers that could be pumped up if needed
So far several vehicles later I haven't had a car that they are available for

Sounds like there's a possible business opportunity for a smart cookie??

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,

I don't believe you will find any manufacture quoting a specific coupling height, because the EU standard range of 350 to 420 mm is the range of heights thier vans must be able to cope with.

I know we often berate the EU and its directives, but here is one that helps to ensure that there is a common interface standard between trailers and cars, and it takes a massive chunk of guess work out of setting up an outfit.

For others who read this, the use of self levelling suspension or suspension assistors can be very useful, but it is not an excuse to exceed the maximum load limits for the vehicle. Factory fitted systems will have been tested by the manufacture and will be deemed as satisfactory and compliant with the vehicle construction and use regulations, but after market devises should only be fitted if specifically approved by the vehicle manufacturer.

I have had a very enlightening conversation to-day with a highly qualified car mechanic, who was telling me how in modern cars, how many different safety sensors are interlinked, This raises the spectre, that changing spring rates may compromise stability control systems that use suspension compression and lateral accelerations, some air bag deploying systems also use signals from wheels and brake and suspension sensors. So only manufacture approved systems should be used. None approved systems may not address the sensors correctly.

 

[Lutz]

The 70mm range in towball height that the regulations allow are necessary to cover normal production tolerances. The same applies to the tolerance for coupling height of the caravan. This must be between 395mm and 465mm above the ground when the caravan is standing level on level ground.
Nominally, the caravan will always be slightly nose down, although tolerances also allow a slight nose up attitude, too.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

That's a very good point John
I recently changed the radio head unit on my Kuga and my neighbour who works for a motor factor was most concerned that it might affect the ECU etc
As trawling Google produced no reports of a problem I made the change and all is OK but he tells me that a Ford dealer has told him that newer versions of the Kuga will have an interface built into the radio as do some cars already and that would involve possible immobilisation of the vehicle and an expensive session on the dealer computer if any changes were made
Its possible to activate a trailer stability programme on the Kuga but it involves a £70 session on the main dealer computer
Luckily the OPs Honda should not have that problem
Dustydog
I was prepared to fit similar shocks to yours as fitted on Mondeo estates but the suspension was OK (for me!)
When we went to France with the California we had my wife's small electric invalid buggy.a Rollater Walker .the Omnistor Safari room and some inevitable tools and spares and then we had to purchase a wheelchair in France (fauteuil roulant!)but the car suspension was superb with very little deflection and no noticeable change in handling
It helped just 2 people in the car and I always load with weights as far forward between the wheels as possible and don't load up with wine !!
The Kuga short rear overhang helped as well
It strange that after 45 year towing this probably the last towcar feels in need of no suspension aids etc
Ford seem to have got it right