Has anyone coverted a petrol car to LPG and used it for towing. If so have you noticed any reduction in power and fuel economy. On paper with LPG being half the cost of petrol it looks to be an attractive option if you do a lot of miles.
LPG
- Thread starter james_5062112
- Start date
I have driven a three Range Rovers that have been converted to run on LPG over the last 7 years. I have towed car transporter trailers with them with Range Rovers on the back with no noticable difference. That said the poser drop on an RR in %age terms would be negligable.
I am happy with LPG and would recommend it for general use but remember you will lose boot space.
I am happy with LPG and would recommend it for general use but remember you will lose boot space.
looked into this when lpg first came out.seemed ok till i did my sums,miles per year,cost of lpg,cost of conversion,how often i changed my car etc.as im lead to believe you get LESS miles per gallon with lpg?? not a lot less but less. unless you do an awful lot of miles and keep your car for more than 5years it is not worth it
we had our trooper converted to lpg three years ago it cost two grand and all but halved our fuel bill overnight. we were chucking in about sixty quid a week we are now down to about twenty-two. by my sums the conversion paid for itself in just over a year. to anybody considering a conversion, do it, you really can't go wrong.
hi James
i have towed with an LPG car a mitsubushi carisma, no noted difference. even flicking onto petrol whilst towing up hill made no difference. if for some reason you do notice a reduction in power you could tow on petrol.
paul
i have towed with an LPG car a mitsubushi carisma, no noted difference. even flicking onto petrol whilst towing up hill made no difference. if for some reason you do notice a reduction in power you could tow on petrol.
paul
Hi James
I used to own a renault laguna 1.8 rt running on lpg. running costs are about half of running on petrol. Unfortunatley mine dropped a valve and destroyed the head so bought a diesel laguna and boy do I see the difference in my pocket. Much much cheaper on gas. As for towing no difference in performance. I could fill my lpg tank with 60 litres and towing it had a rang of about 250 miles and solo it had a range of 400 miles. I used the trip clock as the fuel indicator as the one fitted in the car was not that accurate. Be warned only have your car converted by an lpg specialist otherwise your insurance will not cover you.
I used to own a renault laguna 1.8 rt running on lpg. running costs are about half of running on petrol. Unfortunatley mine dropped a valve and destroyed the head so bought a diesel laguna and boy do I see the difference in my pocket. Much much cheaper on gas. As for towing no difference in performance. I could fill my lpg tank with 60 litres and towing it had a rang of about 250 miles and solo it had a range of 400 miles. I used the trip clock as the fuel indicator as the one fitted in the car was not that accurate. Be warned only have your car converted by an lpg specialist otherwise your insurance will not cover you.
I have run a LPG converted Range Rover for over 8 years and been delighted with it. Yes you CAN get a bit less mpg but not by much. Reason is LPG has a lower calorific value BUT it is also hicher octane rating (closer to 100) Therefore, if you have a car with a "brain" this will reset for the type of fuel used. Our experience has been excellent but you would need to take expert advice before proceeding.
On older cares such as mine then what I do is to adjust the timing to suit the higher octane LPG and run the engine on Super unleaded for a few miles every month. This is important on a carb fed engine as LPG is a dry gas and the carbs are designed to vaporise a liguid. The smoothness of the engine on LPG is a marked contrast to the lumpy running on petrol.
On a modern cars where it can "sense" what it is running on I doubt you would notice the difference. There is a Government scheme called "POWERSHIFT" where you can claim 80% of the installation costs back for a car up to 3 years old (I think - have not checked latest conditions on this)
The other advantage (apart from cheap running costs!!) is that your engine will run cleaner with the oil remaining clear between services.
Things to be aware of is that I am told that engines run a little hotter on LPG therefore you need to ensure the cooling system is in good condition - this means no more in general than just checking the levels and antifreeze %'age.
Because of the lower calorific value your plug gaps may need to be reset to circa 80% of the norm for petrol.
For the same reason the ignition system needs to be in good condition as well i.e. HT and LT leeds and the coil need to be checked. Some installers suggest upgrading to get the best out of the LPG. We didn't - preferring to stick with manufacturers OE parts and have had no problems.
We have a 55l tank sat on one side of the boot as I did not want to compromise the load area. If I was doing it now I would probably have a "donut" tank where the spare wheel is and have that "goo" put in the tyres that prevents them going down when punctured.
We have now done 177K miles, 98K of which were on LPG. I am convinced that the engine is as good as it is because of the cleaner fuel extending engine life. Several years ago, it cost us
On older cares such as mine then what I do is to adjust the timing to suit the higher octane LPG and run the engine on Super unleaded for a few miles every month. This is important on a carb fed engine as LPG is a dry gas and the carbs are designed to vaporise a liguid. The smoothness of the engine on LPG is a marked contrast to the lumpy running on petrol.
On a modern cars where it can "sense" what it is running on I doubt you would notice the difference. There is a Government scheme called "POWERSHIFT" where you can claim 80% of the installation costs back for a car up to 3 years old (I think - have not checked latest conditions on this)
The other advantage (apart from cheap running costs!!) is that your engine will run cleaner with the oil remaining clear between services.
Things to be aware of is that I am told that engines run a little hotter on LPG therefore you need to ensure the cooling system is in good condition - this means no more in general than just checking the levels and antifreeze %'age.
Because of the lower calorific value your plug gaps may need to be reset to circa 80% of the norm for petrol.
For the same reason the ignition system needs to be in good condition as well i.e. HT and LT leeds and the coil need to be checked. Some installers suggest upgrading to get the best out of the LPG. We didn't - preferring to stick with manufacturers OE parts and have had no problems.
We have a 55l tank sat on one side of the boot as I did not want to compromise the load area. If I was doing it now I would probably have a "donut" tank where the spare wheel is and have that "goo" put in the tyres that prevents them going down when punctured.
We have now done 177K miles, 98K of which were on LPG. I am convinced that the engine is as good as it is because of the cleaner fuel extending engine life. Several years ago, it cost us
Don't expect the cost of LPG to stay low for ever.
The UK, Norway and Dutch production areas in the North Sea went into depletion in 1999, 2001 and 2003 respectively. Prior to this production was increasing or staying constant year on year, depletion means that production is dropping (roughly 10% a year in the UK sector).
LPG will be sourced from other sources - like Siberian Russia - but less will be sourced from our doorstep, and it's reasonable to expect prices to change.
Robert
The UK, Norway and Dutch production areas in the North Sea went into depletion in 1999, 2001 and 2003 respectively. Prior to this production was increasing or staying constant year on year, depletion means that production is dropping (roughly 10% a year in the UK sector).
LPG will be sourced from other sources - like Siberian Russia - but less will be sourced from our doorstep, and it's reasonable to expect prices to change.
Robert
Agreed - but at least the Government has confirmed that the favourable (lower) tax situation will continue for some time.
Hi James,
Don't take any notice of the Jona's - price will go up etc. We have two LPG cars in the family, a Vectra Estate and a Shogun SWB and they are brilliant. I have towed with both and powerwise there is no discernable difference. Economywise I rekon LPG usage is slightly more than half the cost of a petrol or diesel - or put it like this, the Vectra does 30MPG on petrol and 25MPG on LPG one costs 93p per litre the other 39p per litre, do the sums yourself.
From my own experience a factory converted car is the best option with Vauxhall, Ford and Volvo leading the field. These makers have done the development work with their own engines and in general have integrated the LPG system into the cars engine management and other systems almost seamlessly.
Our Shogun was converted by a reputable firm and has the latest injection system but lacks finesse in the gauging and tankage department. For example because of the underslung gas tank it's range on petrol is less than 100 miles, which is a bit of a handicap if you can't find an LPG station!
Overall I would not go back to petrol or diesel for my main vehicle, towing is not the consideration it's just plain econonomics!
Go for it and good luck
David
Don't take any notice of the Jona's - price will go up etc. We have two LPG cars in the family, a Vectra Estate and a Shogun SWB and they are brilliant. I have towed with both and powerwise there is no discernable difference. Economywise I rekon LPG usage is slightly more than half the cost of a petrol or diesel - or put it like this, the Vectra does 30MPG on petrol and 25MPG on LPG one costs 93p per litre the other 39p per litre, do the sums yourself.
From my own experience a factory converted car is the best option with Vauxhall, Ford and Volvo leading the field. These makers have done the development work with their own engines and in general have integrated the LPG system into the cars engine management and other systems almost seamlessly.
Our Shogun was converted by a reputable firm and has the latest injection system but lacks finesse in the gauging and tankage department. For example because of the underslung gas tank it's range on petrol is less than 100 miles, which is a bit of a handicap if you can't find an LPG station!
Overall I would not go back to petrol or diesel for my main vehicle, towing is not the consideration it's just plain econonomics!
Go for it and good luck
David
As the UK representative to CEN TC19 (motor vehicle fuel standards) in Europe, I was trying to help based on experience and a little bit of foreward thought on what will likely happen in the European fuel market, but perhaps others have a deeper insight.
If you have a LPG car, great - you 'll continue to make savings.
If you are planning to buy a new bifuel - you'll make savings particularly if the goverment pays for most of the extra purchase cost.
If you are planning to convert your current car - good - but if you were planning on a certain payback period, bear in mind that will change as prices change.
Why did I post my response? Because in Holland Volvo have terminated the sale of new LPG bi-fuel cars - you can still buy CNG bi-fuel, but that's a different fuel.
Robert
If you have a LPG car, great - you 'll continue to make savings.
If you are planning to buy a new bifuel - you'll make savings particularly if the goverment pays for most of the extra purchase cost.
If you are planning to convert your current car - good - but if you were planning on a certain payback period, bear in mind that will change as prices change.
Why did I post my response? Because in Holland Volvo have terminated the sale of new LPG bi-fuel cars - you can still buy CNG bi-fuel, but that's a different fuel.
Robert
David makes some good points - especially re the Shogun which I assume has had the normal petrol tank removed and replaced with an LPG tank, with a smaller petrol tank fitted elswhere?
We considerred this option but rejected it as we tour Spain a lot. LPG is avialable in Spain but it is hardly taxed at all and can be got for about 15p to 18p a litre!!!
However, it is only suppossed to be sold to "Municipal Vehicles" (Police Ambulance Local Government etc) so filling stations are few and far between - unlike France and other parts of Europe.
So Dave - I would think carefully about ever taking the Shogun to Spain!
We know of one filling station in Santander which if you ask the owner "nicely" he will let you fill up. The Joy of getting 55 Litres of fuel for just
We considerred this option but rejected it as we tour Spain a lot. LPG is avialable in Spain but it is hardly taxed at all and can be got for about 15p to 18p a litre!!!
However, it is only suppossed to be sold to "Municipal Vehicles" (Police Ambulance Local Government etc) so filling stations are few and far between - unlike France and other parts of Europe.
So Dave - I would think carefully about ever taking the Shogun to Spain!
We know of one filling station in Santander which if you ask the owner "nicely" he will let you fill up. The Joy of getting 55 Litres of fuel for just
Earlier in this thread there were reports that LPG is difficult to fine in Germany. Most converted vehicles here run on CNG (Compressed Natural Gas).
Certainly with the tax on diesel making it significantly more per litre than petrol - I wonder how long the move to diesel will continue. Some manufacturers embrace LPG (Subaru in particular as they do not have a diesel option) and offer an excellent "package" where the Powershift grant is effectivly handled for you.
Just for info you can add an LPG system to a diesel car/4x4/truck but unlike the petrol/LPG dual fuel system where the engine runs on one or the other, with the diesel system the LPG is added as a smaller %'age of the diesel to help improve the efficiency of the "burn".
There was a Discovery TD5 with this conversion for sale on ebay a little while ago. The seller reported better economy and a cleaner exhaust.
This is popular in Australia where from the reports I have read it seems that little financial gain is made on day to day running costs as the better diesel economy is offset by the cost of the LPG. However, the engine likes it as far less unburnt fuel contaminates the oil. This is a significant factor in "Oz" due to the distances some vehicles travel.
Just for info you can add an LPG system to a diesel car/4x4/truck but unlike the petrol/LPG dual fuel system where the engine runs on one or the other, with the diesel system the LPG is added as a smaller %'age of the diesel to help improve the efficiency of the "burn".
There was a Discovery TD5 with this conversion for sale on ebay a little while ago. The seller reported better economy and a cleaner exhaust.
This is popular in Australia where from the reports I have read it seems that little financial gain is made on day to day running costs as the better diesel economy is offset by the cost of the LPG. However, the engine likes it as far less unburnt fuel contaminates the oil. This is a significant factor in "Oz" due to the distances some vehicles travel.
Ive got a Vauxhaull frontera 2.0 SWB Apache limited edition a car often maligned, running on gas. It has an ecotek valve fitted and has a K&N filter system remnants of pre conversion attempts at increasing MPG. prior to my conversion i managed to boost the MPG from 22 to 28/9 backwards and forwards to work. Post conversion i'm looking at 22mpg no loss of power its got plenty, no loss of performance. In fact the fronty has proved to be a smashing tow vehicle going against all the hype and bad press they have received. My conversion cost me
29.9p/litre is brilliant - it ranges from 38 to 42p/l round here.
I have heard that some supermarket chains are selling LPG as low as 25p/l - sadly whilst we now have a Morrisons (was Safeway) they do not sell fuel.
Damn good pies though.
I have heard that some supermarket chains are selling LPG as low as 25p/l - sadly whilst we now have a Morrisons (was Safeway) they do not sell fuel.
Damn good pies though.
Thanks for all your comments and advice. There is certainly a lot to think about but on balance I think I will buy an older 4x4 with all bells and whistles and convert to LPG.
Just noticed higher up the thread Tim is considering buying refillable gas cylinders for use in the caravan.
I reasearched this and found a big problem - No LPG provider/garage is insured for damage if it all goes pear shaped!! And so they are ALL under instruction not to allow anyone to refill these cylinders.
So my advice is don't bother. If you want to use autogas in this way you will have to have a proper certified instalation in the caravan.
Separate cylinders are a no-no.
I reasearched this and found a big problem - No LPG provider/garage is insured for damage if it all goes pear shaped!! And so they are ALL under instruction not to allow anyone to refill these cylinders.
So my advice is don't bother. If you want to use autogas in this way you will have to have a proper certified instalation in the caravan.
Separate cylinders are a no-no.
James, depending on the vehicle,you do not always loose boot space. My Range Rover has th tank in place of the spare wheel, my previous one had two tanks underneath,and I'm going to do the same with the current carIE have the spare wheel tank and two underneath.totall capacity should be about 160 litres or
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