On the subject of cracked front and rear panels does anyone know what the Administrators are doing with all the spares? Maybe a brave Lunar Dealer could buy them??
Assuming the business is wound up then Magnum Motorhomes of Hull are the usual buyer. Not sure who makes the panels Lunar fit, but Caravan Panels can normally produce them for you along with a lot of other bits.
According to the local newspaper a buyer has been found,they will be named in the next few days.
Mel
Moderator
I hope so even though it looks like my guarantee has gone west at least parts should be easier to get.
Fingers crossed it works out
https://www.lep.co.uk/business/buyer-found-for-preston-company-lunar-caravans-1-9921084
https://www.lep.co.uk/business/buyer-found-for-preston-company-lunar-caravans-1-9921084
Raywood said:
Hello Ray,
In these cases it's easy to get into the mind set and think the dealer is the innocent party, but the law is very clear, the seller is liable if what they sell becomes faulty within the terms of the CRA.
Most people wouldn't think twice about claiming compensation if an airline or train operator delays your travel, or if a carrier damages a parcel, if a televisions stops working, etc etc. Why is it perceived that a caravan dealer should be allowed to get away with the supply faulty goods?
All caravan dealers should be aware of the power of the CRA, and how their liability can be tested if they sell faulty goods. The possibility should have have formed part of their business plan and budgeting. They will have worked out what proportion of the sale price of a caravan they need to achieve to cover such eventualities. The fact that most faults are covered by the manufacturer's warranty, means their profits have been increased becasue the seller business has been subsidised by the manufactures warranty arrangements (Which incidentally inflates the manufacturer's price, so you are effectively paying twice to cover faults in the caravan)
It should be a matter of concern that a seller can profit to the expense of a customer even when the seller has failed in their legal obligations, by failing to have proper quality management with regards inspection of received goods or having agreed quality assurances with their suppliers.
Hi prof, My comments were as a result of another post which I thought might give the impression that a thorough check by the dealer might absolve them if things went wrong later and was simply to counter that.
If I needed £2,000 of repairs due to a faulty product, I doubt any sympathy for the dealer would stop me claiming, although the card issuer who provided the deposit would be also targeted, and are a better bet for me. Basically I know they will still be there.
If I needed £2,000 of repairs due to a faulty product, I doubt any sympathy for the dealer would stop me claiming, although the card issuer who provided the deposit would be also targeted, and are a better bet for me. Basically I know they will still be there.
Being an eternal optimist there is or was nothing stopping the Adminstrator seeking a one off insurance policy to cover future warranty and guarantee claims. They have access to all Lunar’s data and will know year on year how much has been paid. No different to an extended car warranty etc.
Dustydog said:
Hello Dusty there is one big problem with that, and that is who would pay for the insurance premium? the main reason a company goes into administration is . there is no space capitol to run the business yet alone to purchase a new insurance policy.
These policies are actually quite difficult to set up, as the insurer needs to look back through the data to work out how much warranty work is required on average per caravan, and what particular quirks may have arisen with particular models. they need time to crunch the numbers to establish the likely liabilities, and to work out how much it will cost to administer. The insurer would also need to know the scheme would be financed going forward.
Its very unlikely an administrator would be interested in doing that yet alone having the finance available to achieve it. After all their prime objective is to either find a buyer or to liquidise its asserts to pay its creditors
That’ a rather pessimistic view Prof. The reality is there are a number of Insurers willing to underwrite extended warranties on caravans. Who pays is up for discussion. The purchaser? The selling Dealer? Or the new Manufacturer Owner, including the Administrator. I am sure you will agree there is little point buying a business with all the good will down the pan.ProfJohnL said:
Still we shall see what rises from the ashes. Meantime I suggest anyone with a Lunar investigates the various extended warranty schemes available to them.
Also I suggest google Trust pilot Lunar caravans. An eye opener. I will not post the link for protocol reasons
Pessimistic it may be, but that is the reality.
No insurer will want take on the risk of underwriting a warranty scheme until they know who is going to pay for it.
No insurer will want take on the risk of underwriting a warranty scheme until they know who is going to pay for it.
Dustydog said:
Who pays the premium to set up the policy? The administrator has no funds, as that is the reason for Lunars demise, No premium paid, no policy will be underwritten.
Yes Dusty you did suggest other parties, but why would they? It would be money out with no realistic return. Let me ask you this Would you insure my car for me???? I do hope so B)
Prof,ProfJohnL said:
Not quite. I was advocating as a possible solution for all the parties involved taking out an extended warranty insurer backed policy. They are available. Similar to say the extended warranty on a used car, new TV washing machine etc. I couldn’t insure your car for you as I have no financial interest in it.
External extended Warranties are a different issue and may possibly benefit a lot of parties involved.
‘ ..but why would they’? To restore confidence in the final product for existing and new customers. Just my opinion and seeking a comforting solution to those like Ray Wood who are left holding the baby :cheer:
Hello Dusty,
Extended warranties are taken out by the owner of the goods, not the manufacturer or the dealer. The only hope for Lunar owners is the OEM warranties on fitted appliances, or if the company and all its liabilities including warranty issues is purchased outright.
I haven't looked at the companies books, so I don't know for certain, but it seems likely the companies assets will not cover their liabilities, so it will be difficult to find a buyer for the business lock stock and barrel. It's more likely the business will be split and buyers will cherry pick the bits they want. Warranty liabilities are usually at the bottom of the pile, and never picked up.
Edit - It's a sad fact of life, and I do feel for Lunar workers and caravan owners, but whilst is sometimes good to build up hope, in this instance the reality is its most unlikely that a solution will be forthcoming from the administrator, the creditors, or any potential buyer(s) if anything is actually worth saving. As I pointed out in an earlier thread the presently there is over capacity in the caravan manufacturing business, and present trends do show the market is shrinking.
The demise of Lunar may be the saving grace for some of the other manufacturers. who are more than capable of taking up Lunars market share. This makes salvaging Lunar caravans as a going concern almost unthinkable. I think its even questionable if anyone would want to buy the brand name for the name itself, but Lunar were noted for certain models that might be seen as a useful addition to other manufacturers model line up.
I don't think caravanners would be blind to the fact a rebadged model from another manufacture would not be Lunar.
Extended warranties are taken out by the owner of the goods, not the manufacturer or the dealer. The only hope for Lunar owners is the OEM warranties on fitted appliances, or if the company and all its liabilities including warranty issues is purchased outright.
I haven't looked at the companies books, so I don't know for certain, but it seems likely the companies assets will not cover their liabilities, so it will be difficult to find a buyer for the business lock stock and barrel. It's more likely the business will be split and buyers will cherry pick the bits they want. Warranty liabilities are usually at the bottom of the pile, and never picked up.
Edit - It's a sad fact of life, and I do feel for Lunar workers and caravan owners, but whilst is sometimes good to build up hope, in this instance the reality is its most unlikely that a solution will be forthcoming from the administrator, the creditors, or any potential buyer(s) if anything is actually worth saving. As I pointed out in an earlier thread the presently there is over capacity in the caravan manufacturing business, and present trends do show the market is shrinking.
The demise of Lunar may be the saving grace for some of the other manufacturers. who are more than capable of taking up Lunars market share. This makes salvaging Lunar caravans as a going concern almost unthinkable. I think its even questionable if anyone would want to buy the brand name for the name itself, but Lunar were noted for certain models that might be seen as a useful addition to other manufacturers model line up.
I don't think caravanners would be blind to the fact a rebadged model from another manufacture would not be Lunar.
My assumption is that any buyer will buy the name, the assets and companies designs but not take on the liabilities. Essentially they will dump the debts including warranty claims, anyone claiming under a warranty would be an ordinary creditor, but I have no idea if that is worth anything.
So for anybody that has been following our story so far, we have now got rid of our Lunar with the cracked end panel, and although we really liked the inside of the van layout etc, having looked at other vans Lunar did manage to make best use of the interior space, with cupboards and lower height microwave and so on,.we managed to find a dealer nearer to home that took it in complete with cracked panel and although we took a financial hit it has gone, and we have an ex demo Swift sitting in the space where the Lunar used to be, We have put the whole episode down to bad luck and moved on. We have made our feelings known to the original supplying dealer, and they continue to e mail us with their offers,the Lunar was sold within 4 days and we have no idea whether the crack was repaired.Lessons learned? You never know how good or bad your dealer is until you need them, perhaps we have been lucky in the past, or were vans better built? We are looking forward to using the new van, and as the roof, sides and end panels are GRP with no wood construction apart from the floor we hope it should be Ok,and should any cracks appear they should be easier to repair than the ABS on the Lunar.
woodsieboy said:
Did the dealer know that your van had a cracked end panel?
I think you are being unfair on the original dealer who after all did offer to repair the end panel. They met their obligations under CRA2015. However as most warranty repairs for cracked ABS end panels involves replacement we don’t know how effective the repair would have been. But I’ve seen motorhomes with abs rear panels repaired as well as motorcycle fairings. Plastic welding with staples is a well used process.
Hi Clive
Yes the dealer we traded the van in to was well aware of the crack, we were upfront at first point of contact, and showed them the pictures that we had originally supplied to the original authorised Lunar repairer. Our thinking was that the dealer would spot the crack at trade in and any deal we had done would have been reduced to allow for it.
As to the quality of the repair I investigated getting the panel repaired by plastic welding as it would have been cheaper and more local to us, both the original Lunar repairer and a second independent repairer told me the whole panel needed to be replaced to ensure a lasting repair.This involved removing the awning rail and that was part of the problem ref parts. I maintain that the offer from the supplying dealer failed to meet their obligation under CRA, and to take it back to them involved an 8 hour round trip minimum, and the same again to collect repaired van, add in that we are self employed so would lose 2 days work and money,add in that the last caravan we had went back to supplying dealer for damp repair and 18 months later was damp in same area so the upshot was we found a dealer nearer to home and bit the bullet,just cling to the hope that the new van will be less of a problem and that Swift Group remain in business!
Yes the dealer we traded the van in to was well aware of the crack, we were upfront at first point of contact, and showed them the pictures that we had originally supplied to the original authorised Lunar repairer. Our thinking was that the dealer would spot the crack at trade in and any deal we had done would have been reduced to allow for it.
As to the quality of the repair I investigated getting the panel repaired by plastic welding as it would have been cheaper and more local to us, both the original Lunar repairer and a second independent repairer told me the whole panel needed to be replaced to ensure a lasting repair.This involved removing the awning rail and that was part of the problem ref parts. I maintain that the offer from the supplying dealer failed to meet their obligation under CRA, and to take it back to them involved an 8 hour round trip minimum, and the same again to collect repaired van, add in that we are self employed so would lose 2 days work and money,add in that the last caravan we had went back to supplying dealer for damp repair and 18 months later was damp in same area so the upshot was we found a dealer nearer to home and bit the bullet,just cling to the hope that the new van will be less of a problem and that Swift Group remain in business!
woodsieboy said:
I understand the point about the awning rail but that can be cleaned and reused. I think the idea of replacement is cheaper because of the labour involved in cleaning it, but after damage to our Avondale, as the awning rail was the one bit they could not get the repairer reused the old one without problem.
Quote " I understand the point about the awning rail but that can be cleaned and reused"
That depends on how and what was used to secure the rail in the first place.
If they used what is normal now, either Bostick RV61 or Soudall Fixall, then it is virtually impossible to remove awning rails without damaging them beyond reuse.
That depends on how and what was used to secure the rail in the first place.
If they used what is normal now, either Bostick RV61 or Soudall Fixall, then it is virtually impossible to remove awning rails without damaging them beyond reuse.
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