M42 Trailer ban in lane 2

[RogerL_5041474]

Tommorrow, 10 Oct, sees the start of another controversial Highways Agency experiment.

On the M42 northbound jct 10-11, Tamworth to Measham, all trailers - caravans and artics - will be restricted to lane 1 during the daytime. This experiment will last for 18 months.

As this stretch of the M42 is two lane, uphill with no crawler lane, this will cause congestion for all trailers between 10-11 but also congestion for all users between 9-10.

 

[mike_5041102]

It works in Germany so why not in UK? Just get used to it.

 

[littleangel]

I agree in principle for lorries to be restricted to no overtaking, but I think all day is excessive. It should be at peak times for those travelling to and from work. Even if you get the have the inside lane full of lorries this will not cure the problem, it only take one dipstick in a car to crawl!!! Plus won't this bring back convoys on the road??????

It might work in europe, but in france look how many services and Aires they have!!!

Lorry drivers can then pull off and have breaky or tea which ever.

But there should be crawlers lanes.

Nobody thinks caravan drivers suffer on the roads behind lorries, they think we are the problem.

But who cares in the ministry of Transport.

 

[Lutz]

Mike's right in that there are lots of stretches of autobahn, mainly uphill, where cars towing and trucks are not allowed to overtake but I must admit slow traffic does get on one's nerves a bit. It's mainly slow trucks that are the culprits, badly maintained and overloaded ones from eastern Europe, belching forth smoke but getting nowhere.

However, some of these no overtaking sections are fortunately limited to certain (peak) hours of the day.

 

[JasonSDunks]

All,

I travelled this part of the M42 yesterday and the signage clearly states that the limite in on lorries over 7.5 tonnes!

The highway agency website also confirms this.

Try http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/motorways/m42/

m42_jct_10_jct_11_journey_time_trial/

So you can still use this lane to overtake with your caravan in tow.

J

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Thanks Jason I just heard a bit about this on the news one morning but it only said lorries and caravans were not mentioned

 

[DEANO3528]

So once again some jobsworth in the ministry has screwed the lorry driver over.

It's all very well to say they can pull over and have a cup of tea, but it doesn't work like that in reality. It's probably the biggest blow to haulage since the advent of the speed limiter. And that my friends is the reason for all the queues in the first place. Two trucks travelling on a motorway (speed limit 60mph) are 'on the limiter' at 90kmph(56mph). However one is actually set at 89 and one at 91, which is very prevalent. Now there is a differential of 2kmph. Not much at all you might think, but over ten or so miles you will catch up to the slower set truck and gradually overhaul it. Unfortunately it just takes so damn long to do because of the limiter. If there was no limiter, you could pour on more coal, pass and pull in again with little inconvenience to following traffic and all without exceeding the speed limit for the vehicle. Unfortunately Mr Jobsworth's speed limiter does away with the driver's better view of what's going on around him, but Mr Jobsworth knows better as he drives a desk all day.

So people, don't be too quick to blame the lorry driver as he is just trying to earn a living while attempting to keep to normally impossible work schedules. If you are caught in a traffic jam on the way to your holiday destinationb because a caravan has overturned, it's inconvenient but that's all. For the guy in the Artic beside you it probably means he will miss his timed booking at Bloggs Foods, who will then make him sit there all day "because we're fully booked today but we might get a cancellation". This causes a knock on effect for the rest of his deliveries/collections and in a worst-case scenario, can mean a weekend out in the cab away from home and family.

What a great life it is as a lorry driver......

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Deano totally agree about the limiter

There should be the ability technically and legally to accelerate for overtaking purposes and for short distances.

The present mobile road block when overtaking is one of the biggest causes of frustration and delays but as you say it is something over which the lorry driver has no control (unless he's Irish from what I observe!!)

 

[RogerL_5041474]

I posted the original, I live near the M42. My local paper quoted a ban on all trailers. I'm glad to be proved wrong on this occasion.

I agree that the congestion caused by HGV's trying to overtake another is caused solely by their having virtually identical speeds because of artificial limitations.

This doesn't seem to be a problem on the M25 or in Kent, at least for foreign vehicles. On a recent journey, towing, I was inevitably stuck in lane 2 at 56 because of the HGV's in front. There was a gap in the lane 2 traffic so I was able to get up to 60 for a while, only to be overtaken in lane 3 by a 6-axle artic from Belgium who was keeping up with all the cars doing 75-80! EC rules do seem to be one rule for us and no rules for them.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I posted the original, I live near the M42. My local paper quoted a ban on all trailers. I'm glad to be proved wrong on this occasion.

I agree that the congestion caused by HGV's trying to overtake another is caused solely by their having virtually identical speeds because of artificial limitations.

This doesn't seem to be a problem on the M25 or in Kent, at least for foreign vehicles. On a recent journey, towing, I was inevitably stuck in lane 2 at 56 because of the HGV's in front. There was a gap in the lane 2 traffic so I was able to get up to 60 for a while, only to be overtaken in lane 3 by a 6-axle artic from Belgium who was keeping up with all the cars doing 75-80! EC rules do seem to be one rule for us and no rules for them.

You can't be right all the time Roger but thanks for raising the topic and the exchange of information it provoked.

 

[DEANO3528]

EC rules do seem to be one rule for us and no rules for them.

Oh don't get me started on that bunch!

EC rules on Working hours for instance?

British haulage is about to be brought to it's knees by this (being a trade where these practices are totally unworkable) while most European transport firms have now opted out! They are already coming over here and doing collections and deliveries that our people should be doing because they don't pay anything towards our RFL and have such fuel capacity on board they fill up on the cheap before they come here thus undercutting our rates.

Our haulage companies cannot compete on such an obviously sloped playing field.

 

[littleangel]

Not sure why m25 would be a problem, every time were on it it's always restricted, or a car park!!!

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Rather than be concerned about slow moving lorries would not it be a damn good idea to get the heavy freight back onto the railways with feeder distribution points at regular intervals. Lorries are hauling coils of steel out of Port Talbot works along the M4 with one coil on board whereby a freight train can carry at least 30 coils. Surely to God it would be more economical fuel wise, less wear and tear on the roads and more user friendly to the motorist and ozone layer. It would also help the railways to be more competative in their fares.

 

[DEANO3528]

A well worn argument mate. How do you get it from the railhead to the recipient?

In this case not with a van or a 7

 

[Lutz]

Deano, your criticism of the European haulage industry is not a question between 'them and us' (them being mainly the other 'old' EU countries), but it's part of a much bigger problem. The German haulage industry is in a similar predicament because the owners are moving further east to avoid taxes and other restrictions. Recently, a large haulage business over here had all its trucks re-registered in Cyprus and is now operating from there, at least on paper. Drive down any autobahn and you'll be amazed how many trucks now have Latvian, Lithuanian, Romanian, etc. number plates, even though the big names on their side panels are western European.

As for different rules within the EU, this is not true. Belgian vehicles have to have the same speed limiters as in the UK. The business is just so cut-throat that some unscrupulous operators prefer to take a risk by immobilising the limiter. It seems the chance of getting caught is less than the benefits of arriving at the destination quicker. Unfortunately, it's often the case that the very same vehicles that have the speed limiter immobilised are also badly maintained (to cut costs further) and therefore often in a totally unroadworthy condition. These trucks shouldn't be going 50mph, let alone 70.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

That's very interesting Lutz.

Its a bit like UK truckers filling up with diesel abroad rather than in UK to reduce costs.

My comment on Irish trucks was made from seeing dozens of Irish registered vehicles going faster than the norm and makes you wonder if they are governed(no pun intended) by the same regulations.

 

[DEANO3528]

Quite right Lutz, there are many British operators who have now 'flagged out' and who can blame them.

We have a couple of Irish drivers who deliver to us and while they don't have limiter by-passes there are plenty out there who do. There is also now a roaring trade in reprogramming the on-board computers by laptop to alter the top speed. If you can do 60 rather than 55, that's a lot of miles by the end of the week!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Whatever the rights or wrongs nobody can argue against it,there are far too many lorries on the UK roads. It all stems from from the 1950s when we had a corrupt Tory government and a railway that hadn't recovered from lack of money spent on it during the war. The then Minister of Transport, a certain Ernest Marples, who had his money invested in Marples Transport and also Road Construction brought in a Mr Beeching, an accountant at I.C.I. Fibres in Pontypool to "prune" the rail system. Since then the railways have always been on the back foot. They have no chance of competing with roads when they have to maintain their own track, locomotives, rolling stock and signalling. In France for example 40% of goods travel by road, 40% by rail and 20% by canal. Their rail transport system is subsidised by government as ours should be, I also believe this is true of Germany too, perhaps Lutz can enlighten us on this. Regarding Deanos remark about needing lorries to move the goods at each end, in a lot of instances that doesnt hold water. For example Colins post about steel coils, they go from railhead to railhead. Colin is also right about just 1 coil per lorry but on a freight train there are 40 or more. Thats at least 40 trucks off the road. Environmentally that has to be better. Deano said about a level playing field for UK truckers, , give the rail system one too. Oh and by the way, guess who built the M1, yes you got it, Marples Construction.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Whatever the rights or wrongs nobody can argue against it,there are far too many lorries on the UK roads. It all stems from from the 1950s when we had a corrupt Tory government and a railway that hadn't recovered from lack of money spent on it during the war. The then Minister of Transport, a certain Ernest Marples, who had his money invested in Marples Transport and also Road Construction brought in a Mr Beeching, an accountant at I.C.I. Fibres in Pontypool to "prune" the rail system. Since then the railways have always been on the back foot. They have no chance of competing with roads when they have to maintain their own track, locomotives, rolling stock and signalling. In France for example 40% of goods travel by road, 40% by rail and 20% by canal. Their rail transport system is subsidised by government as ours should be, I also believe this is true of Germany too, perhaps Lutz can enlighten us on this. Regarding Deanos remark about needing lorries to move the goods at each end, in a lot of instances that doesnt hold water. For example Colins post about steel coils, they go from railhead to railhead. Colin is also right about just 1 coil per lorry but on a freight train there are 40 or more. Thats at least 40 trucks off the road. Environmentally that has to be better. Deano said about a level playing field for UK truckers, , give the rail system one too. Oh and by the way, guess who built the M1, yes you got it, Marples Construction.

p.s. I was a result of Dr. Beechings cuts. I was a British Railways fireman at the time.

 

[the other tom]

Hi Lord B

Has this thread turned into an anti truck thread, Remember this if you have it , it came on a truck .When was the last time there was a strike by truck drivers . Then count the ammont of times there have been strikes on the railways .So the argument to put freight back on the rails i.m.h.o does not hold water.Try this one your local super market gets say 8 delys a day on artics ,the average artic will carry 40 plus roller cages from wharehouse to supermarket direct ,put it on the rails the you have warehouse to railgoods yard Wait to off load then on the rails to local goods yard Wait to be loaded then take it to the supermarket ,using smaller trucks that will have to make several journeys ,several delays due to loading at goods yard .S0 1 load can take several hours using the rail system .WHEN would you like your fresh milk,fresh bread ,etc,etc,etc.The day after to morrow .THINK ABOUT IT . And yes i do work in transport,it is not rocket sicence to work out that putting the majority of freight onto the rails will never work .

 

[Daventura]

Moving freight by rail worked in the past and now with modern technology it ought to be a much superior method of transporting goods and supplying industry with materials and components than with totally inefficient trucks.The benefits to motorists, the country and the environment are enormous. Money collected from taxes should be used extensively to open up our rail and canal networks again.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

There would be many advantages for using rail instead of road transport for conveying heavy goods, Only recently the Royal Mail decided to go back to mail trains from road transport as in their opinion it was far more practical. There would be distribution points whereby smaller vehicles would be required for local distribution which would drastically reduce the wear and tear on the roads and the atmospheric pollution from the 44 ton wagons. Ford of Bridgend actually paid for a new rail link to their factory off a branch line rather than use the highway.

Lord B. is right in what he stated regarding the 1950s/60s transport policy - the M1 was a definate conflict of interest and was the begining of the end of the railway system. The railway and road freight system should be re-nationalised and run on an equal or level plain, British Road Services as it was known worked well for many years until the afore mentioned policy. British Rail and publicly owned bus services are another example where de-nationalisation has ruined the service provided, they are not now run for the benifit of the passenger but for the benifit of the shareholder. Likewise gas, water and electricity should also remain as public statutory undertakings.

Unfortunately there are now too many financiers at the top of these private companies lining political pockets for any government to bravely stand up against them and act in the country's interest instead of their own.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Hi Lord B

Has this thread turned into an anti truck thread, Remember this if you have it , it came on a truck .When was the last time there was a strike by truck drivers . Then count the ammont of times there have been strikes on the railways .So the argument to put freight back on the rails i.m.h.o does not hold water.Try this one your local super market gets say 8 delys a day on artics ,the average artic will carry 40 plus roller cages from wharehouse to supermarket direct ,put it on the rails the you have warehouse to railgoods yard Wait to off load then on the rails to local goods yard Wait to be loaded then take it to the supermarket ,using smaller trucks that will have to make several journeys ,several delays due to loading at goods yard .S0 1 load can take several hours using the rail system .WHEN would you like your fresh milk,fresh bread ,etc,etc,etc.The day after to morrow .THINK ABOUT IT . And yes i do work in transport,it is not rocket sicence to work out that putting the majority of freight onto the rails will never work .

Ben? where did I say in my post that ALL lorries should be taken off the road. Before you post read what I have written and inwardly digest. If the red mist decends before you have inwardly digested it give it chance to clear then maybe you might post something that relates to my post. Thank you.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Moving freight by rail worked in the past and now with modern technology it ought to be a much superior method of transporting goods and supplying industry with materials and components than with totally inefficient trucks.The benefits to motorists, the country and the environment are enormous. Money collected from taxes should be used extensively to open up our rail and canal networks again.

Hear! Hear! or is it Here! Here!

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

There would be many advantages for using rail instead of road transport for conveying heavy goods, Only recently the Royal Mail decided to go back to mail trains from road transport as in their opinion it was far more practical. There would be distribution points whereby smaller vehicles would be required for local distribution which would drastically reduce the wear and tear on the roads and the atmospheric pollution from the 44 ton wagons. Ford of Bridgend actually paid for a new rail link to their factory off a branch line rather than use the highway.

Lord B. is right in what he stated regarding the 1950s/60s transport policy - the M1 was a definate conflict of interest and was the begining of the end of the railway system. The railway and road freight system should be re-nationalised and run on an equal or level plain, British Road Services as it was known worked well for many years until the afore mentioned policy. British Rail and publicly owned bus services are another example where de-nationalisation has ruined the service provided, they are not now run for the benifit of the passenger but for the benifit of the shareholder. Likewise gas, water and electricity should also remain as public statutory undertakings.

Unfortunately there are now too many financiers at the top of these private companies lining political pockets for any government to bravely stand up against them and act in the country's interest instead of their own.

.... and dont forget Colin, most of our utilities like gas, electric, water, rail/bus transport etc. aren't even British owned. The result of 17 years of Thatcherism.