The English Language, you can make it say what you want
" of the greatest fighters for freedom "
Note Not a Freedom Fighter
Frank
" of the greatest fighters for freedom "
Note Not a Freedom Fighter
Frank
Mandela statue ....... why ?
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Meister
I have for the last few hours tried to send this to you this by psychic thought transfer but as I have no response I post this and hope you can read it.
Mandela is a man who seeks to builds bridges not destroy (have I said that before?)
And that my friend is a VERY good reason for a statue considering the wars we are fighting at the moment. Without Mandela's calm influence, the transition from white rule in Apartied SA could have been a blood bath.
It was not a bllodbath despite the enormous ill feeling of the black population towards white South Africans due to Mandela's influence in the main. SA is transforming into a great country - and one of our key trading partners. Compare that to what is happening in Zimbabwe.
In comparison I do not know of one UK politician that I would want honoured in a similar way.
I have for the last few hours tried to send this to you this by psychic thought transfer but as I have no response I post this and hope you can read it.
Mandela is a man who seeks to builds bridges not destroy (have I said that before?)
And that my friend is a VERY good reason for a statue considering the wars we are fighting at the moment. Without Mandela's calm influence, the transition from white rule in Apartied SA could have been a blood bath.
It was not a bllodbath despite the enormous ill feeling of the black population towards white South Africans due to Mandela's influence in the main. SA is transforming into a great country - and one of our key trading partners. Compare that to what is happening in Zimbabwe.
In comparison I do not know of one UK politician that I would want honoured in a similar way.
That's really nice for you then Darce.
But have you been to SA or do you know anyone who has continued to live there since Mandella took over?
Try going there and walking where your fancy takes you.
Also note that Mandella's lead has not been followed by SA's near neighbours and other African states or other countries around the world.
There are plenty of Britains or British institutions that should be honoured in our capital before any foreigner. If we can not have pride in our own people and nation no wonder that country and people are in the state they are with children getting shot on the streets etc.
Ria
But have you been to SA or do you know anyone who has continued to live there since Mandella took over?
Try going there and walking where your fancy takes you.
Also note that Mandella's lead has not been followed by SA's near neighbours and other African states or other countries around the world.
There are plenty of Britains or British institutions that should be honoured in our capital before any foreigner. If we can not have pride in our own people and nation no wonder that country and people are in the state they are with children getting shot on the streets etc.
Ria
DARCE: I thank you for your input which I find interesting.
If I had realised it was you trying to send it to me by way of psychic thought transfer I would not have taken the painkillers as I thought it was just a migraine.
One thing I should point out is that I have made no comment at any time as to whether I agree or disagree with the erection of the statue.
I simply wanted to know what people thought was a GOOD reason (otherwise).
Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts on this.
Steve
If I had realised it was you trying to send it to me by way of psychic thought transfer I would not have taken the painkillers as I thought it was just a migraine.
One thing I should point out is that I have made no comment at any time as to whether I agree or disagree with the erection of the statue.
I simply wanted to know what people thought was a GOOD reason (otherwise).
Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts on this.
Steve
I apologise all but I've been Googling :O(
Guerrilla activities
In 1961, Mandela became the leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (translated as Spear of the Nation, also abbreviated as MK), which he co-founded. He coordinated a sabotage campaign against military and government targets, and made plans for a possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid. A few decades later, MK did wage a guerrilla war against the regime, especially during the 1980s, in which many civilians were killed. Mandela also raised funds for MK abroad, and arranged for paramilitary training, visiting various African governments.
Mandela explains the move to embark on armed struggle as a last resort, when increasing repression and violence from the state convinced him that many years of non-violent protest against apartheid had achieved nothing and could not succeed.
Mandela later admitted that the ANC, in its struggle against apartheid, also violated human rights, and has sharply criticised attempts by parts of his party to remove statements supporting this fact from the reports of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
Now make up your mind if he is worthy of a statue. Personally I have no problem with it but I don't believe it's erected just to honour him. Theres an hidden agenda somewhere.
It shouldn't surprise anyone either on the choice of person, Red Ken is noted for that. I don't know if he's still standing for Mayor of London but if so, as I posted before, wait for the statue of Gerry Adams.
If we had to have a statue of someone who was known for peace and lived in another country my vote would be for Mahatma Ghandi, after all, he had connections to this country whereas Mandela didn't become active until 1948 and Britain had left South Africa by then. It was the Afrikaaners he was fighting against.
Guerrilla activities
In 1961, Mandela became the leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (translated as Spear of the Nation, also abbreviated as MK), which he co-founded. He coordinated a sabotage campaign against military and government targets, and made plans for a possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid. A few decades later, MK did wage a guerrilla war against the regime, especially during the 1980s, in which many civilians were killed. Mandela also raised funds for MK abroad, and arranged for paramilitary training, visiting various African governments.
Mandela explains the move to embark on armed struggle as a last resort, when increasing repression and violence from the state convinced him that many years of non-violent protest against apartheid had achieved nothing and could not succeed.
Mandela later admitted that the ANC, in its struggle against apartheid, also violated human rights, and has sharply criticised attempts by parts of his party to remove statements supporting this fact from the reports of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
Now make up your mind if he is worthy of a statue. Personally I have no problem with it but I don't believe it's erected just to honour him. Theres an hidden agenda somewhere.
It shouldn't surprise anyone either on the choice of person, Red Ken is noted for that. I don't know if he's still standing for Mayor of London but if so, as I posted before, wait for the statue of Gerry Adams.
If we had to have a statue of someone who was known for peace and lived in another country my vote would be for Mahatma Ghandi, after all, he had connections to this country whereas Mandela didn't become active until 1948 and Britain had left South Africa by then. It was the Afrikaaners he was fighting against.
I've thought of another worthy contender for a statue, that plonk - I mean intellectual, George Galloway, the Respect MP for Bethnal Green and Bow.
The statue could comprise George kissing Saddams feet, George kissing Gaddafis ar$e or because we've had a cat thread and to keep it on topic, George lapping up milk out of a saucer :O)
Anymore contenders for a statue to propose to Red Ken?
The statue could comprise George kissing Saddams feet, George kissing Gaddafis ar$e or because we've had a cat thread and to keep it on topic, George lapping up milk out of a saucer :O)
Anymore contenders for a statue to propose to Red Ken?
This from Ria:-
"There are plenty of Britains or British institutions that should be honoured in our capital before any foreigner"
Xenophobia is alive and well and enjoys caravanning it seems.
What a poisonous sentence.
How soon we forget the Polish Pilots that fought in the Battle of Britain (or does that not count Ria because they are white?) And then there is the Sikh regiments that fought in the D Day landings.
Just visit the Tank Museum near Cherbourg to see how the French honour all the other nations that fought.
As for SA - yes I have been there and yes there are problems. But I would be happier letting my eleven year old son wonder round parts of say, Fish Hoek near Cape Town than I would let him wander the streets in Liverpool.
Some of the comments on here just make me want to emigrate.
Truly awful!
"There are plenty of Britains or British institutions that should be honoured in our capital before any foreigner"
Xenophobia is alive and well and enjoys caravanning it seems.
What a poisonous sentence.
How soon we forget the Polish Pilots that fought in the Battle of Britain (or does that not count Ria because they are white?) And then there is the Sikh regiments that fought in the D Day landings.
Just visit the Tank Museum near Cherbourg to see how the French honour all the other nations that fought.
As for SA - yes I have been there and yes there are problems. But I would be happier letting my eleven year old son wonder round parts of say, Fish Hoek near Cape Town than I would let him wander the streets in Liverpool.
Some of the comments on here just make me want to emigrate.
Truly awful!
The statement .... ""There are plenty of Britains or British institutions that should be honoured in our capital before any foreigner" ..... is not Xenophobic.
The word Xenophobia means a fear of foreigners and the above statement does not show that.
Steve
The word Xenophobia means a fear of foreigners and the above statement does not show that.
Steve
I've just phoned the airport to see what time the plane leaves Darce, they want to know what time can you get there :O)This from Ria:-
"There are plenty of Britains or British institutions that should be honoured in our capital before any foreigner"
Xenophobia is alive and well and enjoys caravanning it seems.
What a poisonous sentence.
How soon we forget the Polish Pilots that fought in the Battle of Britain (or does that not count Ria because they are white?) And then there is the Sikh regiments that fought in the D Day landings.
Just visit the Tank Museum near Cherbourg to see how the French honour all the other nations that fought.
As for SA - yes I have been there and yes there are problems. But I would be happier letting my eleven year old son wonder round parts of say, Fish Hoek near Cape Town than I would let him wander the streets in Liverpool.
Some of the comments on here just make me want to emigrate.
Truly awful!
Try not using sarcasm in your posts and try not to belittle people Darce then maybe you will have a less agressive response.
No Darce, please don't use that word, Frank has the forum rights on it :O)The statement .... ""There are plenty of Britains or British institutions that should be honoured in our capital before any foreigner" ..... is not Xenophobic.
The word Xenophobia means a fear of foreigners and the above statement does not show that.
Steve
Is that you of the Xenophobic Tribe I hear ???No Darce, please don't use that word, Frank has the forum rights on it :O)
---))))
Frank
-fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign
Doesn't include statues then?
Doesn't include statues then?
Automatonophobia is the fear of statues :O) not Xenophobia.-fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign
Doesn't include statues then?
You get Two Brownie points for that L B
I see my education tips are working, i.e. facts before you post -)
Frank
I see my education tips are working, i.e. facts before you post -)
Frank
Thank you Frank, always nice to know the Oracle tells me when I'm right ;O) do I get any Smarties?You get Two Brownie points for that L B
I see my education tips are working, i.e. facts before you post -)
Frank
Now this man warranted his statue, even though it was surrounded by Political Correctness.
Harris commanded respect from his subordinates and enormous loyalty from his crews. But the debate about the morality - and indeed efficacy - of the bombing raids was already under way in the closing stages of the war, and to Harris' disappointment, his request for a special campaign medal for the Bomber Command was refused.
In 1946, he retired from the RAF and embarked on a successful business career in South Africa, but later returned to Britain where he was made a baronet. In 1992, eight years after his death, a monument was erected in central London, stirring up the debate about 'Bomber' Harris and his role in the war effort.
Frank
Harris commanded respect from his subordinates and enormous loyalty from his crews. But the debate about the morality - and indeed efficacy - of the bombing raids was already under way in the closing stages of the war, and to Harris' disappointment, his request for a special campaign medal for the Bomber Command was refused.
In 1946, he retired from the RAF and embarked on a successful business career in South Africa, but later returned to Britain where he was made a baronet. In 1992, eight years after his death, a monument was erected in central London, stirring up the debate about 'Bomber' Harris and his role in the war effort.
Frank
HOLY DOGDUMPS .... I can't believe it .... I'm actually agreeing with one of Franks posts :O) ... hehheh! I think this will be the last post from me tonight because I will be in denial. I wonder what time the shrink closes.Now this man warranted his statue, even though it was surrounded by Political Correctness.
Harris commanded respect from his subordinates and enormous loyalty from his crews. But the debate about the morality - and indeed efficacy - of the bombing raids was already under way in the closing stages of the war, and to Harris' disappointment, his request for a special campaign medal for the Bomber Command was refused.
In 1946, he retired from the RAF and embarked on a successful business career in South Africa, but later returned to Britain where he was made a baronet. In 1992, eight years after his death, a monument was erected in central London, stirring up the debate about 'Bomber' Harris and his role in the war effort.
Frank
Agreed - LOL!-fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign
Doesn't include statues then?
Should have said "Statues of Foreigners"
Sorry Darce but you deem to be another "WET" bandying a big word when someone disagrees with you.
Having spent over 90% of my married life living overeseas and my husband at this moment thousands of miles from home as a serving officer on duty so as to uphold others ideals you have the wrong end of the stick.
A high profile location in our capital is not the place for Mandela's statue, we should be celebrating Britains people and ways not others in such a place.
We have the Polish war memorial and memorials for US and others around but they tend not to be in dominant positions in our capital.
I also have issues with Mandella who was prepareed to kill and mame the same as the dirt of the IRA who now parade as pillars of NI democracy, Mandella may have spent far to many years in Prison he was no saint in the past and nor was the ANC. No doubt you will be campaigning for the Gerry Adams statue along side Mandella's.
If you have visited SA Darce you know that it is still a divided nation in many ways and must realise that many of the worlds cities have their seedier places but also must realise that most of us here would not be welcome or last five minutes in many areas of South Africa and nor would many South Africans today.
As James is an Army officer we have probably visited more memorials and old battle fields than you could ever dream of and like you say the French Honour the other nations that fought in CHERBOURG not next to the Arc de Triomphe or on the Champs Elysee in the heart of Paris.
Whilst you note Pole and Sikhs who've fought with the British, how about the Turks of Muslim and other faiths who had outstanding war records along with people from many other nations from the West Indies, Candada, Australia,NZ, Tonga and many others not forgettinour loyal Gurka troops and the many Hong Kong Chinese who have served our men on our war ships.
Or does your PC mentality only note the current flavour of the month and a token reference to cover the colour issue.
Ria
Having spent over 90% of my married life living overeseas and my husband at this moment thousands of miles from home as a serving officer on duty so as to uphold others ideals you have the wrong end of the stick.
A high profile location in our capital is not the place for Mandela's statue, we should be celebrating Britains people and ways not others in such a place.
We have the Polish war memorial and memorials for US and others around but they tend not to be in dominant positions in our capital.
I also have issues with Mandella who was prepareed to kill and mame the same as the dirt of the IRA who now parade as pillars of NI democracy, Mandella may have spent far to many years in Prison he was no saint in the past and nor was the ANC. No doubt you will be campaigning for the Gerry Adams statue along side Mandella's.
If you have visited SA Darce you know that it is still a divided nation in many ways and must realise that many of the worlds cities have their seedier places but also must realise that most of us here would not be welcome or last five minutes in many areas of South Africa and nor would many South Africans today.
As James is an Army officer we have probably visited more memorials and old battle fields than you could ever dream of and like you say the French Honour the other nations that fought in CHERBOURG not next to the Arc de Triomphe or on the Champs Elysee in the heart of Paris.
Whilst you note Pole and Sikhs who've fought with the British, how about the Turks of Muslim and other faiths who had outstanding war records along with people from many other nations from the West Indies, Candada, Australia,NZ, Tonga and many others not forgettinour loyal Gurka troops and the many Hong Kong Chinese who have served our men on our war ships.
Or does your PC mentality only note the current flavour of the month and a token reference to cover the colour issue.
Ria
⇦ being good Your Moddyship ... see, even Frank has awarded me 2 Brownie points :O)
That reminds me, I haven't polished my halo for a week.
That reminds me, I haven't polished my halo for a week.
Ris - you have me very wrong! - calm down and if you look at what you say - "No doubt you will be campaigning for the Gerry Adams statue along side Mandella's."Sorry Darce but you deem to be another "WET" bandying a big word when someone disagrees with you.
Having spent over 90% of my married life living overeseas and my husband at this moment thousands of miles from home as a serving officer on duty so as to uphold others ideals you have the wrong end of the stick.
A high profile location in our capital is not the place for Mandela's statue, we should be celebrating Britains people and ways not others in such a place.
We have the Polish war memorial and memorials for US and others around but they tend not to be in dominant positions in our capital.
I also have issues with Mandella who was prepareed to kill and mame the same as the dirt of the IRA who now parade as pillars of NI democracy, Mandella may have spent far to many years in Prison he was no saint in the past and nor was the ANC. No doubt you will be campaigning for the Gerry Adams statue along side Mandella's.
If you have visited SA Darce you know that it is still a divided nation in many ways and must realise that many of the worlds cities have their seedier places but also must realise that most of us here would not be welcome or last five minutes in many areas of South Africa and nor would many South Africans today.
As James is an Army officer we have probably visited more memorials and old battle fields than you could ever dream of and like you say the French Honour the other nations that fought in CHERBOURG not next to the Arc de Triomphe or on the Champs Elysee in the heart of Paris.
Whilst you note Pole and Sikhs who've fought with the British, how about the Turks of Muslim and other faiths who had outstanding war records along with people from many other nations from the West Indies, Candada, Australia,NZ, Tonga and many others not forgettinour loyal Gurka troops and the many Hong Kong Chinese who have served our men on our war ships.
Or does your PC mentality only note the current flavour of the month and a token reference to cover the colour issue.
Ria
You will realise that you are the one making all the PC assumptions!
I do not deserve that - it is uncalled for and offensive.
Ria,
A high profile location in our capital is not the place for Mandela's statue, we should be celebrating Britains people and ways not others in such a place.
That I would agree with, it's a little like walking round St Pauls and seeing Stalin buried there. I have no problem with Mandela just I think the place is a little in appropiate. It's kind of our history not someone else's.
Frank
A high profile location in our capital is not the place for Mandela's statue, we should be celebrating Britains people and ways not others in such a place.
That I would agree with, it's a little like walking round St Pauls and seeing Stalin buried there. I have no problem with Mandela just I think the place is a little in appropiate. It's kind of our history not someone else's.
Frank
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