Hi, we're looking to change vans form a single to twin axle, how easy are they to push and manouvere compared to a single axle and would a jockey wheel mover be any use?
thanks in anticipation
thanks in anticipation
Manouverability, twin or single axle?
- Thread starter philip_5109302
- Start date
hi phillip
im on my 4th twin axle and a mover is a must as you will not move a twin axle by hand unless your jeff capes! i use a riech mover which isnt cheap but its the best one ive used not tryed the jockey wheels ones but im sure someone on here will let you know
regards mark
im on my 4th twin axle and a mover is a must as you will not move a twin axle by hand unless your jeff capes! i use a riech mover which isnt cheap but its the best one ive used not tryed the jockey wheels ones but im sure someone on here will let you know
regards mark
I disagree that a motor mover is a must on a twin axle.
It depends on your circumstances,if your storage is tight for example.
If you have problems getting on your pitch there's always a helping help available from other vanners.
Twins are easier to reverse.
I dont have one and havent had a problem yet.
It depends on your circumstances,if your storage is tight for example.
If you have problems getting on your pitch there's always a helping help available from other vanners.
Twins are easier to reverse.
I dont have one and havent had a problem yet.
On our 3rd twin axle now and none have had movers, occasionally a mover would have been useful but not as useful as
I am with Mark and jo-anne on this one. We went from a single to a twin, we had the mover transferred from our last van (Heavy duty Powertouch2) and whilst the van is easier to reverse than the s/a and on most occasions I am able to reverse onto pitches , there is always the odd pitch where reversing is impossible and likewise pushing. We go to Rothiemurchus every summer and always book the same pitch which with a mouver would be imposible to get the van into, even the single needed the mover as the ground is uneven and the van has to be turned 90 degrees , then taken between 2 trees and then another 90 degree turn, finaly moving forwards onto a leveling board, no way could you reverse or push the van.
- Mar 14, 2005
- 18,683
- 3,940
- 50,935
Hello Philip,
As you can see from the above replies. No one has used a jockey wheel or 'A frame' mover on the TA's. With the exception of Michael E (who does not use a mover at all) everyone else has gone to the movers that drive the main caravan wheels.
As you know moving a TA is simple enough in a straight line, but when attempting to turn a corner, the main wheels need to take a different track, but they are restrained by the axles, so at least two tyres end up scrubbing and making the manoeuvre difficult and hard work. The same is still true for the mover, and even the best still can't turn on a sixpence like a single axle van can.
The same is true for the A frame movers. It is often necessary to shuffle round a tight bend until the full turn has been achieved. Turning a TA needs a lot of power.
Movers will take effort out the manually positioning them, which is why they are so popular.
Unfortunately there are some significant performance and safety differences between A frame movers and main wheel movers. This is nothing to do with the caravan beings TA or a SA but simply the mass of the caravan
The fundamental safety issue is the ability of the mover to stop the caravan on a slope. If you cannot stop a caravan on a slope than you have a lethal device, that will crush, maim and even kill.
All movers rely on the grip between the driven wheel and the surface on which they sit. A hard dry surface is usually the best, but anything that degrades the grip will increase the danger.
The main difference between A frame and axle movers is the amount of grip and therefore control they can muster. The amount of grip is determined by how much force is pushing the wheel to the ground. For the main wheels you have the whole weight of the caravan, but for an A frame mover it is the weight of the mover plus just the nose weight of the caravan.
As a guide, if the caravan cannot be controlled by one person manually, then it is unlikely that an 'A frame' mover will offer much if any additional control and thus safety. By comparison, the main wheel movers are roughly the equivalent of 10 people at least.
If you only ever want to use the mover on level firm ground, then an 'A frame' unit will probably do very well (such as a caravan dealership), but if you want the mover to work in real life situations like on slopes, or grass land, then the more universal units are the main wheel movers.
Michael says that TA's are easier to reverse. That is probably due to the length of the caravan, rather than the fact it has twin axles. Longer trailers are easier to reverse, because the direction of trailer changes less rapidly to the same steering input.
As you can see from the above replies. No one has used a jockey wheel or 'A frame' mover on the TA's. With the exception of Michael E (who does not use a mover at all) everyone else has gone to the movers that drive the main caravan wheels.
As you know moving a TA is simple enough in a straight line, but when attempting to turn a corner, the main wheels need to take a different track, but they are restrained by the axles, so at least two tyres end up scrubbing and making the manoeuvre difficult and hard work. The same is still true for the mover, and even the best still can't turn on a sixpence like a single axle van can.
The same is true for the A frame movers. It is often necessary to shuffle round a tight bend until the full turn has been achieved. Turning a TA needs a lot of power.
Movers will take effort out the manually positioning them, which is why they are so popular.
Unfortunately there are some significant performance and safety differences between A frame movers and main wheel movers. This is nothing to do with the caravan beings TA or a SA but simply the mass of the caravan
The fundamental safety issue is the ability of the mover to stop the caravan on a slope. If you cannot stop a caravan on a slope than you have a lethal device, that will crush, maim and even kill.
All movers rely on the grip between the driven wheel and the surface on which they sit. A hard dry surface is usually the best, but anything that degrades the grip will increase the danger.
The main difference between A frame and axle movers is the amount of grip and therefore control they can muster. The amount of grip is determined by how much force is pushing the wheel to the ground. For the main wheels you have the whole weight of the caravan, but for an A frame mover it is the weight of the mover plus just the nose weight of the caravan.
As a guide, if the caravan cannot be controlled by one person manually, then it is unlikely that an 'A frame' mover will offer much if any additional control and thus safety. By comparison, the main wheel movers are roughly the equivalent of 10 people at least.
If you only ever want to use the mover on level firm ground, then an 'A frame' unit will probably do very well (such as a caravan dealership), but if you want the mover to work in real life situations like on slopes, or grass land, then the more universal units are the main wheel movers.
Michael says that TA's are easier to reverse. That is probably due to the length of the caravan, rather than the fact it has twin axles. Longer trailers are easier to reverse, because the direction of trailer changes less rapidly to the same steering input.
- Jun 20, 2005
- 19,218
- 4,742
- 50,935
Hi Philip
I too totally disagree with Michael.
A mover is an absolute esential piece of kit on a twin axle.
There are some sites where you want the nose in first. Just try pushing the TA or even worse trying to get it out again.
As John points out no one has mentioned A frame movers.
Have a look in the second hand adverts of all the mags and you will see lots of these for sale. Ask yourself why??
Cheers
Alan
I too totally disagree with Michael.
A mover is an absolute esential piece of kit on a twin axle.
There are some sites where you want the nose in first. Just try pushing the TA or even worse trying to get it out again.
As John points out no one has mentioned A frame movers.
Have a look in the second hand adverts of all the mags and you will see lots of these for sale. Ask yourself why??
Cheers
Alan
Im sorry i still disagree,you are making it sound like if you have a twin axle you "must" have a motor mover.
I have helped a few people with movers to get on gravel and wet pitches,i have also seen people unhitch their van motor onto their pitch re hitch to get the van on leveling blocks as the mover wouldnt do this.
Im not saying you dont need one as some people do for certain reasons,but please dont make sound as you cant do without one.
As Garfield states
I have helped a few people with movers to get on gravel and wet pitches,i have also seen people unhitch their van motor onto their pitch re hitch to get the van on leveling blocks as the mover wouldnt do this.
Im not saying you dont need one as some people do for certain reasons,but please dont make sound as you cant do without one.
As Garfield states
I think it depends on it individual situation if you need a mover or not on a twin. We have plenty of room in storage and enough space on the drive we also mainly use clud sites and CL's where you can pick your own pitch so a mover is not essential for us. However several people have given valid reasons for using a mover. Personally I would buy the van and see how you get on before you outlay what is a large sum of money on the mover, remember also that twins are easier to reverse than a single.
- Jun 20, 2005
- 19,218
- 4,742
- 50,935
Ok Michael,
There are a number of sites we like where it is essential to have the caravan in nose first to enjoy the best view. eg Trewethett Farm, Tintagel, Polmanter St Ives, Scourie, just to mention a few. Some of the pitches can be on a slope. Now even if I could manhandle my TA could I stop it easily?? I doubt it. The mover allows us total flexibility and certainly goes a long way to avoiding a double hernia or heart attack.
As a caravanner since 1978 I honestly believe a mover is an essential piece of kit on a TA if you want to fully enjoy it. If you are not bothered about a view on your pitch and can park at home or level up manually, then fine you don't need one, but what a shame to deprive yourself of the best views.Never mind getting a hernia.
Cheers
Alan
There are a number of sites we like where it is essential to have the caravan in nose first to enjoy the best view. eg Trewethett Farm, Tintagel, Polmanter St Ives, Scourie, just to mention a few. Some of the pitches can be on a slope. Now even if I could manhandle my TA could I stop it easily?? I doubt it. The mover allows us total flexibility and certainly goes a long way to avoiding a double hernia or heart attack.
As a caravanner since 1978 I honestly believe a mover is an essential piece of kit on a TA if you want to fully enjoy it. If you are not bothered about a view on your pitch and can park at home or level up manually, then fine you don't need one, but what a shame to deprive yourself of the best views.Never mind getting a hernia.
Cheers
Alan
- Jun 20, 2005
- 19,218
- 4,742
- 50,935
Ok Michael,
There are a number of sites we like where it is essential to have the caravan in nose first to enjoy the best view. eg Trewethett Farm, Tintagel, Polmanter St Ives, Scourie, just to mention a few. Some of the pitches can be on a slope. Now even if I could manhandle my TA could I stop it easily?? I doubt it. The mover allows us total flexibility and certainly goes a long way to avoiding a double hernia or heart attack.
As a caravanner since 1978 I honestly believe a mover is an essential piece of kit on a TA if you want to fully enjoy it. If you are not bothered about a view on your pitch and can park at home or level up manually, then fine you don't need one, but what a shame to deprive yourself of the best views.Never mind getting a hernia.
Cheers
Alan
There are a number of sites we like where it is essential to have the caravan in nose first to enjoy the best view. eg Trewethett Farm, Tintagel, Polmanter St Ives, Scourie, just to mention a few. Some of the pitches can be on a slope. Now even if I could manhandle my TA could I stop it easily?? I doubt it. The mover allows us total flexibility and certainly goes a long way to avoiding a double hernia or heart attack.
As a caravanner since 1978 I honestly believe a mover is an essential piece of kit on a TA if you want to fully enjoy it. If you are not bothered about a view on your pitch and can park at home or level up manually, then fine you don't need one, but what a shame to deprive yourself of the best views.Never mind getting a hernia.
Cheers
Alan
Can somebody tell me how we've managed if a motor mover is essential.
Simple really, it's called reverse gear. We have two twin axle vans as our 98 Bailey was so good we kept it rather than sell it for a give away price. It's used by family and friends and saves them towing to the south of France. Daughter and son inlaw also have a Senator T/A and don't have a motor mover, This summer we had both vans on the road and theirs and two others and for three weeks three. All twin axles and not one motor mover. Any tight site turning issues are over come by winding the jockey wheel down. Any one off really awkward manouvers have been overcome using a tried and tested ratchet strap, we've managed fine for years without movers in fields in the Alps, pine forests and even in snow.
After all if a mover was essential they would come as standard on Twin axle vans! Movers restrict the carrying weight and will cost a years summer travel budget for many families. I doubt that we would have used a mover once this year, all pitches were just reversed on to.
I've no idea why you would have to go nose first on to a pitch, In all our years of caravanning we've never done it.
My wife and I can move our T/A with little effort, I would buy the van and use it before wasting money on a weight allowance on a mover.
Simple really, it's called reverse gear. We have two twin axle vans as our 98 Bailey was so good we kept it rather than sell it for a give away price. It's used by family and friends and saves them towing to the south of France. Daughter and son inlaw also have a Senator T/A and don't have a motor mover, This summer we had both vans on the road and theirs and two others and for three weeks three. All twin axles and not one motor mover. Any tight site turning issues are over come by winding the jockey wheel down. Any one off really awkward manouvers have been overcome using a tried and tested ratchet strap, we've managed fine for years without movers in fields in the Alps, pine forests and even in snow.
After all if a mover was essential they would come as standard on Twin axle vans! Movers restrict the carrying weight and will cost a years summer travel budget for many families. I doubt that we would have used a mover once this year, all pitches were just reversed on to.
I've no idea why you would have to go nose first on to a pitch, In all our years of caravanning we've never done it.
My wife and I can move our T/A with little effort, I would buy the van and use it before wasting money on a weight allowance on a mover.
Thanks to everyone for your helpful replies. I've concluded to suck it and see whilst appreciating both sides of the debate. Thanks very much for your contributions and happy vanning!
Alan we have a side bathroom T/A with windows at both ends and the awning has windows at both ends. I've seen some caravanners over the years doing balet like manouvers with caravans with movers and some prats have moved the van around the pitch for twenty minutes or more. Some ending up with it where I would have reversed it to in a few seconds!
Arrive at site and book in, get to pitch reverse the van in and thats it mate, then put our feet up whislt we have a cup of coffee. Awnings views and anything else waits. We're there relaxing and taking it easy and will get out and about to look at anything pretty. I've never found a site yet where we've wanted to sit in the van oohing a aahing over a view and we've been to a lot of sites over the years.
Also if its a sloping site there is no way I would be relying on motor mover rollers to brake the caravan.
Arrive at site and book in, get to pitch reverse the van in and thats it mate, then put our feet up whislt we have a cup of coffee. Awnings views and anything else waits. We're there relaxing and taking it easy and will get out and about to look at anything pretty. I've never found a site yet where we've wanted to sit in the van oohing a aahing over a view and we've been to a lot of sites over the years.
Also if its a sloping site there is no way I would be relying on motor mover rollers to brake the caravan.
An interesting debate and I have a SA!
A question - apart from length, why is a TA easier to reverse? (I'm a farmers son too and have no trouble finding the spot!)
Alan (the other one)
A question - apart from length, why is a TA easier to reverse? (I'm a farmers son too and have no trouble finding the spot!)
Alan (the other one)
Other Alan.
The twin wheels give a straight lining effect and remove the easy pivoting point of single axle caravan/trailer.
From experience I would say that as a T/A does not pivot sideways as easy as a single axle that assists the driver when reversing it.
I hope that makes sense.
The twin wheels give a straight lining effect and remove the easy pivoting point of single axle caravan/trailer.
From experience I would say that as a T/A does not pivot sideways as easy as a single axle that assists the driver when reversing it.
I hope that makes sense.
I should have added, if you really must face the other way, which we do from time to time for the view or convenience, simply reverse next to where you want to be and swing the caravan round with a brick, log or ramp chocking one wheel - it's remarkably easy as only one side of the van is actually moving - you pull sideways at the hitch getting max leverage(and standing next to the brake lever!). Getting out is the reverse and is often easier.
Alan (the other one)
Alan (the other one)
I've had 1800 kg of twin axle for 2 years with no motor mover.
Geoff Capes I'm not! infact I'm 5'7' and under 11 stone.
There has only been 1 occasion when a motor mover would have been a 'nice to have' and even then my wife and I managed by hand. ( hernia op due next month
)
Van is stored indoor where I park it in a gap of 6 inches on either side using the car.
If I had a spare
Geoff Capes I'm not! infact I'm 5'7' and under 11 stone.
There has only been 1 occasion when a motor mover would have been a 'nice to have' and even then my wife and I managed by hand. ( hernia op due next month
)Van is stored indoor where I park it in a gap of 6 inches on either side using the car.
If I had a spare
Thie thread has got me thinking about the popularity of movers on vans these days, I think to a degree this is done to the success of dealers in selling movers with vans usually convincing people that they are an essential piece of kit. It also makes me wonder especially when you see on site how dependant some people are on the mover what they would do if they had to reverse the van in an emergency on the main road.
Parksy
Moderator
- Nov 12, 2009
- 11,904
- 2,400
- 40,935
This thread has made me wonder how essential motor movers really are.
We've had a t/a since last October without a motor mover. I have always thought that perhaps I'd get a motor mover fitted if the financial opportunity arose but when I look back I can't think of one single time where I couldn't put the caravan on the pitch as I should.
So far this year we've been away ten times to a mixture of commercial sites, C&CC sites and (mainly) certified sites.
I always have a look at an online map and zoom in with the aerial view. With a c.s. I telephone the owner and mention the fact that we have a t/a and ask if there are any access problems.
I'm lucky in that I used to drive articulated lorries so my reversing skills are ok but with practice anybody could reverse a caravan.
I take the point that perhaps in some places caravanners might enjoy a better view if they pitched nose first but so far this has not been the case for me.
Manuevering the caravan by hand isn't an option for me so it's always a case of 'look before you leap', in other words I never get into a situation with the caravan where I couldn't extricate myself by using the towcar.
We've had a t/a since last October without a motor mover. I have always thought that perhaps I'd get a motor mover fitted if the financial opportunity arose but when I look back I can't think of one single time where I couldn't put the caravan on the pitch as I should.
So far this year we've been away ten times to a mixture of commercial sites, C&CC sites and (mainly) certified sites.
I always have a look at an online map and zoom in with the aerial view. With a c.s. I telephone the owner and mention the fact that we have a t/a and ask if there are any access problems.
I'm lucky in that I used to drive articulated lorries so my reversing skills are ok but with practice anybody could reverse a caravan.
I take the point that perhaps in some places caravanners might enjoy a better view if they pitched nose first but so far this has not been the case for me.
Manuevering the caravan by hand isn't an option for me so it's always a case of 'look before you leap', in other words I never get into a situation with the caravan where I couldn't extricate myself by using the towcar.
- Mar 14, 2005
- 18,683
- 3,940
- 50,935
Hi Euro,
I f you are referring to reversing using a towcar, then I can't agree there is any advantage or disadvantage between TA's and SA's.
However if you are refering to manouvering by hand:
If the direction of travel is a straight line, the TA will naturally try to run in that line, where as the SA can be more easiliy knocked of course.
Realistically most position of caravans does need some re alignment in which case the TA preference for straight lines is a significant disadvantage for hand manoeuvring.
Re John L's Comment. I think you are out on your own, you are the first person I've come acrooss that has not found a T/A easier to reverse behind a car.
I wonder how much motor movers are todays "must have" accessory, looking at the hardware I can see a nice profit margin for somebody. No doubt they are a must have in the eyes of a salesman looking for a nice bonus or commision.
At home in France I'm sure that motor movers are not as popular as in the UK and I wonder what Lutz's veiw about the German market is. Plenty of large German vans about but I can't remember seeing many on them in Europe.
At one UK site we watched amazed as a youngish couple pulled up in the middle of a huge grass area, they unhitched the van and drove it by the motor mover around the car and a good 40 metres to the pitch that anyone could have reversed the largest of vans on to.
I wonder how much motor movers are todays "must have" accessory, looking at the hardware I can see a nice profit margin for somebody. No doubt they are a must have in the eyes of a salesman looking for a nice bonus or commision.
At home in France I'm sure that motor movers are not as popular as in the UK and I wonder what Lutz's veiw about the German market is. Plenty of large German vans about but I can't remember seeing many on them in Europe.
At one UK site we watched amazed as a youngish couple pulled up in the middle of a huge grass area, they unhitched the van and drove it by the motor mover around the car and a good 40 metres to the pitch that anyone could have reversed the largest of vans on to.
- Jun 20, 2005
- 19,218
- 4,742
- 50,935
Alan( the other one)
What you say always worked for me with the single axles but I doubt very much I could swing my TA the same way.
As for reversing I agree the TA is far easier and in fact a long reverse in a straight line is far easier with a TA than a SA.
I'm a big boy of 6' and 15 stones. I've tried with my wife to manhandle the Wyoming, impossible. Hence I shelled out for a mover. Not so much for reversing but as I've said before for sites where we want the lounge to have the view.
Cheers
Alan
What you say always worked for me with the single axles but I doubt very much I could swing my TA the same way.
As for reversing I agree the TA is far easier and in fact a long reverse in a straight line is far easier with a TA than a SA.
I'm a big boy of 6' and 15 stones. I've tried with my wife to manhandle the Wyoming, impossible. Hence I shelled out for a mover. Not so much for reversing but as I've said before for sites where we want the lounge to have the view.
Cheers
Alan
Facebook
Twitter