One of the biggest advantages of an automatic is the drive to the wheels is constant, limiting wheel slippage and torque steer during acceleration. I drove mauals for years and thought most autos were terrible. Now I have an auto Jeep and although I drive manuals every day, after a long spell in an auto the manual actually feels like the dark ages. Incidentally, I drove a Kia Sedona 2.9 auto and it was ghastly, so it really depends on the car as much as the 'box.
Manual or Automatic which to choose
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Cris, the way I read it, I took it as a direct assault on my post, in which I was trying to make the point that not everyone is comfortable with the characteristics of auto vehicles.
If I could butt in Geordie? I know where you're coming from, there are times when the auto does not change down until you exit a bend, for example, when I personally would have changed down before entry. An auto is a different style of driving which doesn't suit everyone, but for the most part I find it more relaxing. And I would have to say, of the autos I've driven the Shogun wasn't one of the best.
Hi Andrew,
I have an 04 Sorento automatic and tow a Bailey Series 5 Pageant. We also have a SAAB 9000CSE turbo manual that we tow with. The Kia is far mor relaxing and is slightly more economical than the SAAB when towing. Also I don't care what others may say about driving skills but close manoeuvring with an auto gives less wear and tear in the clutch. The Kia auto has good hill descent braking, and with the manual over-ride you can lock it when going uphill, or use it for normal driving in semi-manual to give a 'sportier' response for overtaking.
Cheers
I have an 04 Sorento automatic and tow a Bailey Series 5 Pageant. We also have a SAAB 9000CSE turbo manual that we tow with. The Kia is far mor relaxing and is slightly more economical than the SAAB when towing. Also I don't care what others may say about driving skills but close manoeuvring with an auto gives less wear and tear in the clutch. The Kia auto has good hill descent braking, and with the manual over-ride you can lock it when going uphill, or use it for normal driving in semi-manual to give a 'sportier' response for overtaking.
Cheers
Like "Other Clive" - I am surprised at the negative feedback on some posts re when an auto chooses to change gear?
Speak to anyone that does offroading and they will tell you that the ability to change gear without any loss of drive whatsoever (cf using the clutch on a manual) gives you a real edge.
Also I do not know of any auto box that you cannot hold in low gear or even manualy change down a gear for entering a bend and powering out of it.
Having had both manual and auto and realising that an auto actually has a superior manual ability I cannot see how an auto box can be criticised on this count.
All I can say is that if you did not realise this then you do not have enough experience of using an auto box.
Speak to anyone that does offroading and they will tell you that the ability to change gear without any loss of drive whatsoever (cf using the clutch on a manual) gives you a real edge.
Also I do not know of any auto box that you cannot hold in low gear or even manualy change down a gear for entering a bend and powering out of it.
Having had both manual and auto and realising that an auto actually has a superior manual ability I cannot see how an auto box can be criticised on this count.
All I can say is that if you did not realise this then you do not have enough experience of using an auto box.
I have to agree with Clive. I have driven LOTS of miles in Auto's, mainly in America but the technology is the same.
A modern auto box is a Superior bit of kit. You can select your gear or leave it to the box, either way, driving is easier.
But a message to all those who have never driven one and want to try, hook your left leg under your right, its amazing how quick a car will stop if you hit the brake with the same pressure you hit the clutch!
A modern auto box is a Superior bit of kit. You can select your gear or leave it to the box, either way, driving is easier.
But a message to all those who have never driven one and want to try, hook your left leg under your right, its amazing how quick a car will stop if you hit the brake with the same pressure you hit the clutch!
Morning all. In the dim and distant past I ran two private cars.They were identical Peugeot 504s differing only in that one was manual, the other auto. In three years,both cars clocked up 180,000 miles. The manual had four clutches and two gearboxes. the auto had nothing. The cost difference between the two cars was only noticeable on the transmission replacements. I rest my case.
Our next car will a Grand Cherokee which only comes in Auto , having deiven both manual and autos in the past there are plus and minus points on both and at the end of the day it is down to person preference. As I get older I find myself getting lazier so the manual suits me. Most modern manuals are 5 speed boxes and many have the option to be used as triptonic sequential boxes as well.
Clive you of all people should know that you should be in the correct gear at the correct time, and not let an auto box get you out of the c**p. Shame on you sir!Like "Other Clive" - I am surprised at the negative feedback on some posts re when an auto chooses to change gear?
Speak to anyone that does offroading and they will tell you that the ability to change gear without any loss of drive whatsoever (cf using the clutch on a manual) gives you a real edge.
Also I do not know of any auto box that you cannot hold in low gear or even manualy change down a gear for entering a bend and powering out of it.
Having had both manual and auto and realising that an auto actually has a superior manual ability I cannot see how an auto box can be criticised on this count.
All I can say is that if you did not realise this then you do not have enough experience of using an auto box.
Ok, if we're talking personal experiences, I have an 04 Sorento, the car in question. I tow a twin axle van with this car and rarely have to make use of the manual gearbox. Due to the prodigious amount of torque and the way it is delivered I can keep the car in 5th gear on most motorway inclines without changing down. Even so, the box is pleasant enough to use, does not have a heavy clutch and I have never found myself changing gear and wishing for a slush box at the same time.
Really, I can't believe this debate has gone on for so long, after all it's only down to two choices.
Really, I can't believe this debate has gone on for so long, after all it's only down to two choices.
Agreed Lol!Like "Other Clive" - I am surprised at the negative feedback on some posts re when an auto chooses to change gear?
Speak to anyone that does offroading and they will tell you that the ability to change gear without any loss of drive whatsoever (cf using the clutch on a manual) gives you a real edge.
Also I do not know of any auto box that you cannot hold in low gear or even manualy change down a gear for entering a bend and powering out of it.
Having had both manual and auto and realising that an auto actually has a superior manual ability I cannot see how an auto box can be criticised on this count.
All I can say is that if you did not realise this then you do not have enough experience of using an auto box.
You can get an auto box to shift down by use of a heavy right foot which is OK when negotiating a hill, but not advisable when entering a corner!
So I use the box as a manual and just "snick it down" and power away. Really is addictive!!
Two choices Lol?
My auto Discovery has eight forward gears and two reverse.
The manual version has ten forward gears and two reverse.
LMAO!!!!
My auto Discovery has eight forward gears and two reverse.
The manual version has ten forward gears and two reverse.
LMAO!!!!
You can never have to much of a good thing, since the manual has more gears, I can leave the assumption up to you Clive ;o)
I half expected a witty responce to the "less is more" post!
I have always felt this saying is just pretentuous clap trap!!
Our Freelander is a manual and I jump in and out of that as I do the Discovery - more so at the moment as the Discovery is not yet converted to LPG.
It is all down to what you like.
R
Clive
I have always felt this saying is just pretentuous clap trap!!
Our Freelander is a manual and I jump in and out of that as I do the Discovery - more so at the moment as the Discovery is not yet converted to LPG.
It is all down to what you like.
R
Clive
I have to be careful as to what I say, as Geordie seemed to think I was havinbg a pop at him.
I'm not having a go at Lol, but even with the reputed prowess and fame of the Sorento I don't see that its perfomance and torque is that spectacular. Years ago my old Mondeo would cruise along motorways and inclines happily!
Slush box all though humerous is a bygone term not really for a modern day auto.
Many high power cars only have Auto box's these days, and its not down to lazy drivers.
The auto box handles the power better and puts it to the road more efficuiently than any driver.
Choice is for the individual, my first Auto was a Volve bought as a near new bargain from a struggling dealer who needed a sale.
I drove another car for the test drive as the one I bought was hemmed in on the forecourt, I had more or less done the deal when I found it was an Auto. My "manual can't be beaten" Dad had been converted for towing with a 3 speed Vauxhall so I bit the bullet and did the deal.
There was a learning curve, and I guess over the first few weeks I was still not convinced. Stuck in 5 hours or so of traffic due to a motorway crash, crawling up hill and down dale through little towns and then a trip to Cornwall with van in tow started to change my views. I've said enough earlier here, driving auto's is a different approach. But Slush Box, Unreliable, Costly, Slow, Lazy Drivers and other negatives need to be put aside if you have the choice. You may have to change your driving style, but that does not mean that you will
be driving slower or faster or costing youself a fortune.
Emmo's comments on the Peugeot's reflects mine and business users I know findings.
Lol's comment re being on an incline and begging for the auto box to change down is not something I have experienced nor having the thing rev itself to bits. The Auto's I've owned and generally driven have all had a button or the stick that you just flick if you feel the box needs a little prompting as it can not read the road ahead.
No doubt even with Lols Sorento's power, he might find on some inclines if a little windy he may some time find he needs fourth and does not stay in 5th. Having and Auto does not mean ANY driver has to sit like a dummy awaiting a machine.
All auto's I've owned or driven have been able to take driver input, so you some times choose to take your own option.
Driving an Auto does not mean that it has to rule you,it is still a machine to be controlled!
Ideally being able to spend quite a few miles in an Auto in different conditions so you get a feeling of how it works and what it can do before you buy would be the thing to do I guess.
I'm not having a go at Lol, but even with the reputed prowess and fame of the Sorento I don't see that its perfomance and torque is that spectacular. Years ago my old Mondeo would cruise along motorways and inclines happily!
Slush box all though humerous is a bygone term not really for a modern day auto.
Many high power cars only have Auto box's these days, and its not down to lazy drivers.
The auto box handles the power better and puts it to the road more efficuiently than any driver.
Choice is for the individual, my first Auto was a Volve bought as a near new bargain from a struggling dealer who needed a sale.
I drove another car for the test drive as the one I bought was hemmed in on the forecourt, I had more or less done the deal when I found it was an Auto. My "manual can't be beaten" Dad had been converted for towing with a 3 speed Vauxhall so I bit the bullet and did the deal.
There was a learning curve, and I guess over the first few weeks I was still not convinced. Stuck in 5 hours or so of traffic due to a motorway crash, crawling up hill and down dale through little towns and then a trip to Cornwall with van in tow started to change my views. I've said enough earlier here, driving auto's is a different approach. But Slush Box, Unreliable, Costly, Slow, Lazy Drivers and other negatives need to be put aside if you have the choice. You may have to change your driving style, but that does not mean that you will
be driving slower or faster or costing youself a fortune.
Emmo's comments on the Peugeot's reflects mine and business users I know findings.
Lol's comment re being on an incline and begging for the auto box to change down is not something I have experienced nor having the thing rev itself to bits. The Auto's I've owned and generally driven have all had a button or the stick that you just flick if you feel the box needs a little prompting as it can not read the road ahead.
No doubt even with Lols Sorento's power, he might find on some inclines if a little windy he may some time find he needs fourth and does not stay in 5th. Having and Auto does not mean ANY driver has to sit like a dummy awaiting a machine.
All auto's I've owned or driven have been able to take driver input, so you some times choose to take your own option.
Driving an Auto does not mean that it has to rule you,it is still a machine to be controlled!
Ideally being able to spend quite a few miles in an Auto in different conditions so you get a feeling of how it works and what it can do before you buy would be the thing to do I guess.
Ok, a couple of questions for you Cris, as you don't seem to be able to let this lie. Firstly, why did you compare your old Mondeo to the Sorento? Did you use your Ford to tow a twin axle? Admirable though the car is, my brother has a year 2000 model and swears by it, you cannot compare the pulling performance of these two vehicles, they are miles apart and so very different. Secondly, why is it ok for you to insinuate that your "Just having a little wind up ;-)" when you pounce on any word that you feel is even slightly offensive, double standards?
Sorry, I've just sat here and thought, "Hey this is getting personal", so although I could go on, and let's face it your contributions give plenty to debate, I am going to offer the olive branch. Andrew will have enough info by now to make a subjective decision. So how about it Cris, can we let this one drop and move on or is this going to turn into something that we both don't want?
Sorry, I've just sat here and thought, "Hey this is getting personal", so although I could go on, and let's face it your contributions give plenty to debate, I am going to offer the olive branch. Andrew will have enough info by now to make a subjective decision. So how about it Cris, can we let this one drop and move on or is this going to turn into something that we both don't want?
Witty response? What do you think this is Clive, the Chit-Chat forum?I half expected a witty responce to the "less is more" post!
I have always felt this saying is just pretentuous clap trap!!
Our Freelander is a manual and I jump in and out of that as I do the Discovery - more so at the moment as the Discovery is not yet converted to LPG.
It is all down to what you like.
R
Clive
Towcars is a battleground only inhabited by the shell shocked. The only mirth in here is found lying in the trench with a big 4x4 footprint across its neck.
While we are in here though, have you noticed that while you can argue till the sun comes down over a tug, nobody seems to give a fig about what caravan you have? In a world of caravaners do you not think that strange?
Agreed cris - Modern autos are so much better than what went before. Not long ago I watched a TG episode when an Italian "supercar" was being tested and whilst they said the autobox was good on the open road it was very poor in town.
The 4 speed ZF auto box used by Land Rover is a great box, but it replaced a Chrysler 3 speed that performed really well in great big 5 litre US V8's but Land Rovers little 3.5L V8 did not match the box.
Mind you it also had a quirk whereby to get it to engage the lowest gear you had to put the accelerator flat on the floor to get it to engage or else it stayed in 2nd gear which on a 3 speed box was far two high for much off road use even with the Transfer Box in low.
People didn't like it but it is a stronger box that should work well but in reality it didn't.
Imagine being at the top and wanting to go down a steep slippery slope and the only way to engage the lowest gear is to floor the accelerator!!
The 4 speed ZF auto box used by Land Rover is a great box, but it replaced a Chrysler 3 speed that performed really well in great big 5 litre US V8's but Land Rovers little 3.5L V8 did not match the box.
Mind you it also had a quirk whereby to get it to engage the lowest gear you had to put the accelerator flat on the floor to get it to engage or else it stayed in 2nd gear which on a 3 speed box was far two high for much off road use even with the Transfer Box in low.
People didn't like it but it is a stronger box that should work well but in reality it didn't.
Imagine being at the top and wanting to go down a steep slippery slope and the only way to engage the lowest gear is to floor the accelerator!!
Lol I drive thousands of miles to many each year and never say well I drive an Auto ? and its the biz. I drive what does a hard job and suits my needs.
But I have plenty of smart remarks from people asking if I can drive real cars with a gear box with no prompting!
I should have said Old Montego not Mondeo. I towed a large heavy chassis ancient Swift and it would cruise along motorways in 5th on most motorway inclines.
My mates old pajero towes my present Senator happily with it ageing manual box.
As fine a tow car or tow car that the Sorento is or any other car come to that, heavy or light clutch, torque and motorway driving is not to my mind a basis to make a choice on if someone is asking advice.
You can have the lightest clutch and ten times more torque than your sorento, if you are on tight roads or are in traffic you still have to change gear and feed in a clutch.
It's not an attack on you Lol and as its not a fight I don't see anything to let lie.
I have nothing against you or your car and admired the Sorento parked next to me in Ireland last year, I have no beef with 4X4's and may well buy one in the near future. If the Sorento is as good as everyone says, I would hope that they fit a good modern up to date Auto box that would do a good all round job and not hunt around and rev up etc.
Not touched on before, but how do Kia's do now for holding trade in price, some well rated cars hold better value as Auto's these days.
My car is easier to sell as an Auto rather than manual? I would consider a KIA in the future as I "downsize" my life sytyle but fear the depreciation factor!
I will be away soon so if you or anyone else is offended by anything I say that's sad but tough ;-)
Hopefuly some can read into my warped humour, if you don't like,don't read. That "cris is a W***** or misserable F*****" does not worry or concern me if thats how anyone feels.
As I said, it's cyber space you are a small box on the side of a big screen whilst I work. If any little comment helps another make a choice that suits them, that's fine by me.
But I have plenty of smart remarks from people asking if I can drive real cars with a gear box with no prompting!
I should have said Old Montego not Mondeo. I towed a large heavy chassis ancient Swift and it would cruise along motorways in 5th on most motorway inclines.
My mates old pajero towes my present Senator happily with it ageing manual box.
As fine a tow car or tow car that the Sorento is or any other car come to that, heavy or light clutch, torque and motorway driving is not to my mind a basis to make a choice on if someone is asking advice.
You can have the lightest clutch and ten times more torque than your sorento, if you are on tight roads or are in traffic you still have to change gear and feed in a clutch.
It's not an attack on you Lol and as its not a fight I don't see anything to let lie.
I have nothing against you or your car and admired the Sorento parked next to me in Ireland last year, I have no beef with 4X4's and may well buy one in the near future. If the Sorento is as good as everyone says, I would hope that they fit a good modern up to date Auto box that would do a good all round job and not hunt around and rev up etc.
Not touched on before, but how do Kia's do now for holding trade in price, some well rated cars hold better value as Auto's these days.
My car is easier to sell as an Auto rather than manual? I would consider a KIA in the future as I "downsize" my life sytyle but fear the depreciation factor!
I will be away soon so if you or anyone else is offended by anything I say that's sad but tough ;-)
Hopefuly some can read into my warped humour, if you don't like,don't read. That "cris is a W***** or misserable F*****" does not worry or concern me if thats how anyone feels.
As I said, it's cyber space you are a small box on the side of a big screen whilst I work. If any little comment helps another make a choice that suits them, that's fine by me.
Cris, I too drive many thousands of miles a year, you are not alone on that score. I too have driven many different vehicles, from Class 1 HGV's to Sierra Cosworths to a Rover Metro. Cars and the car world happen to be an old hobby of mine; you should see my encyclopaedia (22 volumes) on the subject entitled Cars Cars Cars. I even owned a Montego, not the diesel but the 1.6 estate with the extra rear seats. I did however have a couple of journeys out in a staff car equipped with the 2ltr diesel and found that engine while acceptable higher in the rev range not so good for low down torque, a little like the Mk4 Ford Escort.
True, it doesn't matter what torque or power you have, if you drive a manual, you will have to change gears, it may help on long runs but it doesn't eliminate them. Also true is that you can control an automatic gear box using the selector to lock out certain gears, but surely if you are doing that you are using it like a manual. There again if you are selecting different modes on your auto are you admitting that there are inherent deficiencies with an auto? Surely an automatic equipped car would not need driver control or input?
Yes apparently the auto in the Sorento is a good auto box, as modern and efficient as equivalent cars. As for the Kia used values, I can only comment on the Sorento which again is on par with the majority of 4x4's in percentage terms, seems like badge snobbery doesn't count so much these days, people are looking for cars that get the job done. When you take into consideration the competitive new price you realise just how much you have saved.
I might be just a small box on a large screen, you just happen to be a small box on a small screen. Does that make you any more or less of a forum contributor, I wondered because I thought it odd that you mentioned it? Like you said, if you don't like what is written, don't read it, you're not the first nor will you be the last to say that.
So for me this particular subject is closed.
True, it doesn't matter what torque or power you have, if you drive a manual, you will have to change gears, it may help on long runs but it doesn't eliminate them. Also true is that you can control an automatic gear box using the selector to lock out certain gears, but surely if you are doing that you are using it like a manual. There again if you are selecting different modes on your auto are you admitting that there are inherent deficiencies with an auto? Surely an automatic equipped car would not need driver control or input?
Yes apparently the auto in the Sorento is a good auto box, as modern and efficient as equivalent cars. As for the Kia used values, I can only comment on the Sorento which again is on par with the majority of 4x4's in percentage terms, seems like badge snobbery doesn't count so much these days, people are looking for cars that get the job done. When you take into consideration the competitive new price you realise just how much you have saved.
I might be just a small box on a large screen, you just happen to be a small box on a small screen. Does that make you any more or less of a forum contributor, I wondered because I thought it odd that you mentioned it? Like you said, if you don't like what is written, don't read it, you're not the first nor will you be the last to say that.
So for me this particular subject is closed.
Oh, before I go, perhaps you should consider a few of the more modern manual gear boxes, such as the excellent Volkswagen DSG, or one of the many paddle shifters available today, might put a bit of fun back into your motoring?Cris, I too drive many thousands of miles a year, you are not alone on that score. I too have driven many different vehicles, from Class 1 HGV's to Sierra Cosworths to a Rover Metro. Cars and the car world happen to be an old hobby of mine; you should see my encyclopaedia (22 volumes) on the subject entitled Cars Cars Cars. I even owned a Montego, not the diesel but the 1.6 estate with the extra rear seats. I did however have a couple of journeys out in a staff car equipped with the 2ltr diesel and found that engine while acceptable higher in the rev range not so good for low down torque, a little like the Mk4 Ford Escort.
True, it doesn't matter what torque or power you have, if you drive a manual, you will have to change gears, it may help on long runs but it doesn't eliminate them. Also true is that you can control an automatic gear box using the selector to lock out certain gears, but surely if you are doing that you are using it like a manual. There again if you are selecting different modes on your auto are you admitting that there are inherent deficiencies with an auto? Surely an automatic equipped car would not need driver control or input?
Yes apparently the auto in the Sorento is a good auto box, as modern and efficient as equivalent cars. As for the Kia used values, I can only comment on the Sorento which again is on par with the majority of 4x4's in percentage terms, seems like badge snobbery doesn't count so much these days, people are looking for cars that get the job done. When you take into consideration the competitive new price you realise just how much you have saved.
I might be just a small box on a large screen, you just happen to be a small box on a small screen. Does that make you any more or less of a forum contributor, I wondered because I thought it odd that you mentioned it? Like you said, if you don't like what is written, don't read it, you're not the first nor will you be the last to say that.
So for me this particular subject is closed.
Hi,Two choices Lol?
My auto Discovery has eight forward gears and two reverse.
The manual version has ten forward gears and two reverse.
LMAO!!!!
the Sorento also has the same number of gears with its normal and low ratios. I took mine off road witha 4*4 club last Autumn and it really was very useful to have the gearbox do all of the work. With an auto you get max torque from standstill, good offroad, and good with a van for hill starts. It does require a different driving style but it is one that you can adapt too quickly. There is also the manual overide for the twisty bits.
Back in the early 1980s the Swedish police cahnged over thier SAABS and Volvos to an all auto fleet on account of the better reliability, but when they checked sprint times etc they found the autos were consistently faster 0-60 on account of the fact that few of thier drivers could really nail a manual and get the maximum performance out of it. Also accident rates reduced too. And I still drive a SAAB manual!
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