We are looking at buying E220 AMG line but no tow weight on vin 2016. Does anyone tow with this car? There is a lot online saying that it’s illegal if it’s not on vin or V5 but I can’t believe Mercedes sell there cars as towing cars when it’s illegal ? It’s the AMG model we were looking at . From 2018 onwards it now has the figures on the vin.
Mercedes E class can it legally tow?
- Thread starter Susan-Ronan
- Start date
Susan-Ronan said:
There has to be a tally plate fixed to the car somewhere which shows axle and gross loads. The braked and unbraked tow weights are on V5 documents.
Yes looked at vin plate and it is blank at that section and the salesman looked on V5 and it has - -
Susan-Ronan said:
Looking at a few websites that give towing specifications there are a lot of different models. You need to spell out the year and model number. But the good news seems to be that most seem to have a decent tow load but with few down low.
Pages around 58 are useful info.
http://tools.mercedes-benz.co.uk/current/passenger-cars/e-brochures/c-class-saloon-estate.pdf
I have the tow weight for the car and yes loads of sites say what you can tow for the model however no number on vin or V5 means not legal. Looking to see if other E class owners had same issue ? And to find out what e class models do have it on there plates of V5
Some models of car have a central exhaust,so can't fit a towbar,hence no towing figures.Maybe this is why? It's just a thought.
Hello Susan,
I'm sorry but its black and white. If the cars VIN plate does not contains a Gross Train Weight figure, it is illegal to try and tow with it.
Its not a simple matter of looking at the power and torque (which AMG models tend to have in abundance) there can be issues with cooling, suspension, and clutches and numerous other features including stability control systems, so the manufacture may well have designed the vehicle for sporty performance and handling, and decided to exclude towing.
I'm sorry but its black and white. If the cars VIN plate does not contains a Gross Train Weight figure, it is illegal to try and tow with it.
Its not a simple matter of looking at the power and torque (which AMG models tend to have in abundance) there can be issues with cooling, suspension, and clutches and numerous other features including stability control systems, so the manufacture may well have designed the vehicle for sporty performance and handling, and decided to exclude towing.
ProfJohnL said:
I have no doubt that your statement regarding the lack of data on the VIN plate is correct Prof, but just to point out that the car Susan’s referring to though is not an AMG. It’s an AMG LINE. No more power and torque than regular E Class models, but with some cosmetic and other enhancements to make it look a little more sporty, in a similar fashion to Audi S-Line and VW R-Line.
In all of these examples, including the Mercedes, “Line” is the generally accepted substitute for the word “Lookalike”
I’m not suggesting that there is anything wrong with them though, most are very nice looking cars without the hefty purchase price, depreciation and fuel and tax bills associated with the real thing and of course less likely to draw attention from the wrong sorts.
Icaru5 said:ProfJohnL said:
I have no doubt that your statement regarding the lack of data on the VIN plate is correct Prof, but just to point out that the car Susan’s referring to though is not an AMG. It’s an AMG LINE. No more power and torque than regular E Class models, but with cosmetic enhancements to make it look a little more sporty, in a similar fashion to Audi S-Line and VW R-Line.
In all of these examples, including the Mercedes, “Line” is the generally accepted substitute for the word “Lookalike”
I’m not suggesting that there is anything wrong with them though, most are very nice looking cars without the hefty purchase price, depreciation and fuel and tax bills associated with the real thing and of course less likely to draw attention from the wrong sorts.
The OP doesn’t mention “AMG Line” , so is it that the genuine AMG cars have engines larger than 220? Perhaps the 220 refers to the starter motor size
. That’s why I asked for the year and precise model number because Mercedes make such a wide range of cars just saying 220 isn’t much help.otherclive said:Icaru5 said:ProfJohnL said:
I have no doubt that your statement regarding the lack of data on the VIN plate is correct Prof, but just to point out that the car Susan’s referring to though is not an AMG. It’s an AMG LINE. No more power and torque than regular E Class models, but with cosmetic enhancements to make it look a little more sporty, in a similar fashion to Audi S-Line and VW R-Line.
In all of these examples, including the Mercedes, “Line” is the generally accepted substitute for the word “Lookalike”
I’m not suggesting that there is anything wrong with them though, most are very nice looking cars without the hefty purchase price, depreciation and fuel and tax bills associated with the real thing and of course less likely to draw attention from the wrong sorts.
The OP doesn’t mention “AMG Line” , so is it that the genuine AMG cars have engines larger than 220? Perhaps the 220 refers to the starter motor size
Susan’s opening sentence says “E220 AMG line” !
But of course it’s irrelevant to her question and the predicament she finds herself in, I only digressed onto this point as there were a few replies assuming an abundance of torque and power which are generally associated with the AMG brand, but not the case with AMG line, despite them being very nice cars.
Icaru5 said:otherclive said:Icaru5 said:ProfJohnL said:
I have no doubt that your statement regarding the lack of data on the VIN plate is correct Prof, but just to point out that the car Susan’s referring to though is not an AMG. It’s an AMG LINE. No more power and torque than regular E Class models, but with cosmetic enhancements to make it look a little more sporty, in a similar fashion to Audi S-Line and VW R-Line.
In all of these examples, including the Mercedes, “Line” is the generally accepted substitute for the word “Lookalike”
I’m not suggesting that there is anything wrong with them though, most are very nice looking cars without the hefty purchase price, depreciation and fuel and tax bills associated with the real thing and of course less likely to draw attention from the wrong sorts.
The OP doesn’t mention “AMG Line” , so is it that the genuine AMG cars have engines larger than 220? Perhaps the 220 refers to the starter motor size
Susan’s opening sentence says “E220 AMG line” !
But of course it’s irrelevant to her question and the predicament she finds herself in, I only digressed onto this point as there were a few replies assuming an abundance of torque and power which are generally associated with the AMG brand, but not the case with AMG line, despite them being very nice cars.
Oops. Specsavers it is !!!
The point that is beyond debate is the fact if the vehicle is not type approved to tow (i.e. it has not GTW on its VIN plate) it is illegal to tow with it.
The semantics of how its described or assumed are not relevant to the above fact, But it is often the case that sporting models of vehicles are not type approved for some or more of the reasons I pointed out.
The semantics of how its described or assumed are not relevant to the above fact, But it is often the case that sporting models of vehicles are not type approved for some or more of the reasons I pointed out.
The Prof is absolutely correct :kiss:ProfJohnL said:
This problem has been around a long time with MB. The OP can try MB but according to the following don’t expect help.
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/index.php?threads/no-towing-with-a-2016-e220-amg-estate.152543/
Looks like towing will be illegal. To tow in this situation may well invalidate your insurance :woohoo:
It is not just the AMG line it is also E series SE models from 2013- 2018 do not all have weights on vin plates which legally does not allow you to tow even though MB market it as a towing car real shame as like the car.
Does anyone drive a E series estate and if so what does your Vin number say? I can then try to look at that model.
Thanks
Does anyone drive a E series estate and if so what does your Vin number say? I can then try to look at that model.
Thanks
As I ordered my B8 Passat estate with the Sports suspension option, this thread has just resulted in me going outside and checking my VIN plate, just in case ...
All OK though
Looking a little closer at the numbers raises a question though ...
Let’s say for example my fully laden car was only 20KG under the GVW, and then I hitched my van which resulted in a combined mass of well under the MAM, and at the time, the noseweight of the van was 80KG..
Does the caravan’s noseweight have to be included as part of the GVW, meaning that `I have exceeded the GVW by 60KG, or is the Towbars loading not considered as part of the GVW ?
All OK though
Looking a little closer at the numbers raises a question though ...
Let’s say for example my fully laden car was only 20KG under the GVW, and then I hitched my van which resulted in a combined mass of well under the MAM, and at the time, the noseweight of the van was 80KG..
Does the caravan’s noseweight have to be included as part of the GVW, meaning that `I have exceeded the GVW by 60KG, or is the Towbars loading not considered as part of the GVW ?
Icaru5 said:As I ordered my B8 Passat estate with the Sports suspension option, this thread has just resulted in me going outside and checking my VIN plate, just in case ...
All OK though
Looking a little closer at the numbers raises a question though ...
Let’s say for example my fully laden car was only 20KG under the GVW, and then I hitched my van which resulted in a combined mass of well under the MAM, and at the time, the noseweight of the van was 80KG..
Does the caravan’s noseweight have to be included as part of the GVW, meaning that `I have exceeded the GVW by 60KG, or is the Towbars loading not considered as part of the GVW ?
I have always understood that the noseweight is part of the cars load, which offloads the caravan axle by the same amount.
To answer Icaru5's scenario,Icaru5 said:As I ordered my B8 Passat estate with the Sports suspension option, this thread has just resulted in me going outside and checking my VIN plate, just in case ...
All OK though
Looking a little closer at the numbers raises a question though ...
Let’s say for example my fully laden car was only 20KG under the GVW, and then I hitched my van which resulted in a combined mass of well under the MAM, and at the time, the noseweight of the van was 80KG..
Does the caravan’s noseweight have to be included as part of the GVW, meaning that `I have exceeded the GVW by 60KG, or is the Towbars loading not considered as part of the GVW ?
If the car is loaded to within 20kg of its GVW, and a trailer with an actual 80kg nose load is then coupled to the car, the whole of the 80Kg nose load is transferred to the the car. As a result the car will then exceed its GTW by 60kg and is overloaded and illegal to drive.
If any of the values on the cars VIN plate are exceeded under any circumstances the vehicle is being operated outside of its type approved region and is thus considered to be overloaded.
I should stress its the measured values that count not the assumed values.
ProfJohnL said:To answer Icaru5's scenario,Icaru5 said:As I ordered my B8 Passat estate with the Sports suspension option, this thread has just resulted in me going outside and checking my VIN plate, just in case ...
All OK though
Looking a little closer at the numbers raises a question though ...
Let’s say for example my fully laden car was only 20KG under the GVW, and then I hitched my van which resulted in a combined mass of well under the MAM, and at the time, the noseweight of the van was 80KG..
Does the caravan’s noseweight have to be included as part of the GVW, meaning that `I have exceeded the GVW by 60KG, or is the Towbars loading not considered as part of the GVW ?
If the car is loaded to within 20kg of its GVW, and a trailer with an actual 80kg nose load is then coupled to the car, the whole of the 80Kg nose load is transferred to the the car. As a result the car will then exceed its GTW by 60kg and is overloaded and illegal to drive.
If any of the values on the cars VIN plate are exceeded under any circumstances the vehicle is being operated outside of its type approved region and is thus considered to be overloaded.
I should stress its the measured values that count not the assumed values.
But in my example, the GTW will not be exceeded Prof, although the GVW would, IF the van’s noseweight is to be included as part of the cars GVW.
Edit: Although we digress, just to continue this interesting albeit now slightly off topic discussion Prof and by the same token, if as an example, my fully laden car was 20KG over its GVW and I was silly enough to load my van in such a way as to make it rear-end heavy, so that when unhitched, the tow hitch pointed upwards, with a force equating to a weight of -40KG acting on the tow hitch, then putting other adverse effects aside, would you then suggest that when hitched, this would render my cars GVW 20KG under the limit, instead of over ?
If the vans noseweight (or more correctly noseforce, whose direction cannot be ignored) must be included as part of the cars GVW, Then surely the above would apply ?
Susan-Ronan said:
Hello again Susan,
Again its sad that your vehicle is not authorised to tow. Most manufacturers will include a disclaimer in their published brochures "E&OE" which stands for "errors and omissions excepted"
This basically allows the marketing teams to publish information about a product that may not be correct, without liability for the consequences of their actions.
Icaru5 said:ProfJohnL said:To answer Icaru5's scenario,Icaru5 said:As I ordered my B8 Passat estate with the Sports suspension option, this thread has just resulted in me going outside and checking my VIN plate, just in case ...
All OK though
Looking a little closer at the numbers raises a question though ...
Let’s say for example my fully laden car was only 20KG under the GVW, and then I hitched my van which resulted in a combined mass of well under the MAM, and at the time, the noseweight of the van was 80KG..
Does the caravan’s noseweight have to be included as part of the GVW, meaning that `I have exceeded the GVW by 60KG, or is the Towbars loading not considered as part of the GVW ?
If the car is loaded to within 20kg of its GVW, and a trailer with an actual 80kg nose load is then coupled to the car, the whole of the 80Kg nose load is transferred to the the car. As a result the car will then exceed its GTW by 60kg and is overloaded and illegal to drive.
If any of the values on the cars VIN plate are exceeded under any circumstances the vehicle is being operated outside of its type approved region and is thus considered to be overloaded.
I should stress its the measured values that count not the assumed values.
But in my example, the GTW will not be exceeded Prof, although the GVW would, IF the van’s noseweight is to be included as part of the cars GVW.
Edit: Although we digress, just to continue this interesting albeit now slightly off topic discussion Prof and by the same token, if as an example, my fully laden car was 20KG over its GVW and I was silly enough to load my van in such a way as to make it rear-end heavy, so that when unhitched, the tow hitch pointed upwards, with a force equating to a weight of -40KG acting on the tow hitch, then putting other adverse effects aside, would you then suggest that when hitched, this would render my cars GVW 20KG under the limit, instead of over ?
If the vans noseweight (or more correctly noseforce, whose direction cannot be ignored) must be included as part of the cars GVW, Then surely the above would apply ?
The theory holds re GVW but wouldn’t you be transgressing the requirement for the minimum positive noseweight?
EC Directive 95/48 requires a minimum of 25 kg or not less than 4% of maximum permitted towable mass. The Caravan MHC technical information on noseweight spells it all out over 20+ pages.
Hi Clive,
I really have absolutely no idea about the minimum positive noseweight, but after checking my VIN plate in light of Susans predicament became interested in whether or not the vans noseweight did legally constitute part of the cars GVW. The Prof says it does, which given his experience I don’t doubt. Of course my hypothetical example of negative noseweight was only to cast a different perspective of the situation and would of course be ludicrous in practice for many obvious reasons, but this is a technicality that has intrigued me as after a cursory search I was unable to find any reference to it.
Anyway, at the risk of hijacking Susans thread I’ll leave it there and if it intrigues me any more I will start a new thread.
I really have absolutely no idea about the minimum positive noseweight, but after checking my VIN plate in light of Susans predicament became interested in whether or not the vans noseweight did legally constitute part of the cars GVW. The Prof says it does, which given his experience I don’t doubt. Of course my hypothetical example of negative noseweight was only to cast a different perspective of the situation and would of course be ludicrous in practice for many obvious reasons, but this is a technicality that has intrigued me as after a cursory search I was unable to find any reference to it.
Anyway, at the risk of hijacking Susans thread I’ll leave it there and if it intrigues me any more I will start a new thread.
Didn't Ford produce a number of Mondeos that were not type approved for towing i.e. Cosworths? Fitting a towbar and towing a caravan will also invalidate any warranty and may also have insurance implications.
Maybe if Susan really wants the AMG is to buy it and then buy an older car that is capable of towing the caravan.
Maybe if Susan really wants the AMG is to buy it and then buy an older car that is capable of towing the caravan.
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