MG3 NCAP TEST CRITICAL SAFETY FAILURE.

[ProfJohnL]

Drivers may have previous managed without all of these "aides" but it has allowed many thousands of incidents where damage or injury or even death has occured.

Our roads have become ever more busy, and most of us have witnessed declining driving standards both factors have been driving up incident rates for many years.

When I asked Google ;
"Has the introduction driver assistance aids in cars reduced the number of incidents?"

The response came back

"AI Overview

Yes, studies consistently show that Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS) have
significantly reduced the number of certain types of car incidents, though the overall impact depends on system type and driver behavior.

Proven Reductions by System Type
Specific ADAS features have shown considerable effectiveness:

• Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) has a major impact, with studies showing it cuts rear-end collisions by as much as 50% and reduces pedestrian crashes by 14-27%.
• Forward Collision Warning (FCW) systems, even without automatic braking, have been found to reduce rear-end crashes by 27%.
• Lane-Keeping Assist (LKA) and Lane Departure Warning (LDW) systems have been shown to reduce lane-departure crashes by approximately 19% and all crashes by 11% respectively.
• Blind Spot Monitoring systems have reduced lane-change and merging collisions by around 3.5-9%.
• Reverse Automatic Braking has been highly effective at reducing backing crashes, by up to 82% in some studies.

Potential vs. Reality and Mitigating Factors
While the potential for crash reduction is high (one study estimated a full deployment of ADAS could prevent 24% of road crashes in the UK annually), real-world effectiveness is influenced by several factors:

• Driver Disengagement/Over-reliance: Some "comfort-enhancing" systems like Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) have, in some studies, been linked to increased crash rates (8-12% increase). This is possibly because drivers may pay less attention or rely too heavily on the system, leading to a "false sense of security".
• System Annoyance: Features like lane-keeping assist can be perceived as "annoying" due to frequent false alarms or "tugging" sensations, leading many drivers to switch them off, thus negating their safety benefits.
• Environmental Limitations: ADAS performance can be limited by challenging conditions such as adverse weather (rain, snow, ice) or faded lane markings, as these impair sensor capabilities.
• Driver Education: There is a gap in driver understanding and correct use of ADAS technology. Proper education and training are considered vital to maximize the safety benefits.

In conclusion, evidence from numerous studies points to a significant positive safety impact from ADAS when used correctly, particularly with features that actively intervene in imminent crash situations like AEB and LKA. However, human factors and technological limitations mean the full safety potential has yet to be realized. "

I think that proves that leaving the management of driving safely just to the driver is not safest solution.

 

[otherclive]

You have the option of switching them off permanently which you cannot do on new cars. However although it is an EU stipulation making it mandatory, I am wondering if your car could fail a MOT if you have permanently disabled the systems. There is no way that the MOT inspector can test the systems. There is no way that an insurance company could refuse a claim either.

Anyway off to the Toyota dealer to hassle them again as the car is still within the 6 months even though we have had it for almost 7 months. It is an inherent fault right across the brand, but as said, amazingly our car was the first time they had come across the issue!

I have to go in to the menus and turn each one off if I wanted to. They stay off for subsequent engine restarts. But, unlike the Yaris, I’ve not found them particularly intrusive, so they are left ON permanently. My daughters 2025 MG requires those that aren’t mandatory ON, to be switched off each time the car is restarted. But she now just leaves them ON, but hasn’t found any issue particularly wrt lane control.

What do you do on the new Tuscan, are they intrusive?

 

[Buckman]

I thought you would have realised that you cannot depend on a AI answer as on many occasions it has been known to be incorrect. I am not sure how it can come to that sort of conclusion as data would be very sparse plus the one big fact is proving that the accident could have been avoided using the safety system in a car. Are you aware that in France they are now investigating these safety systems due to some serious crashes i.e. car braking unexpectedly on a motorway?

 

[Buckman]

I have to go in to the menus and turn each one off if I wanted to. They stay off for subsequent engine restarts. But, unlike the Yaris, I’ve not found them particularly intrusive, so they are left ON permanently. My daughters 2025 MG requires those that aren’t mandatory ON, to be switched off each time the car is restarted. But she now just leaves them ON, but hasn’t found any issue particularly wrt lane control.

What do you do on the new Tuscan, are they intrusive?

I think that the Yaris suffers from the saying "One fits all". The Yaris probably uses the same software across all its models from the Landcruiser down to the Argo. Therefore on a Landcruiser being a much bigger vehicle the system does not feel over responsive, but on a much smaller vehicle using the same software it is hyper sensitive. I am just guessing. Unfortunately the Yaris has become a bit of a paperweight parked outside our residence as OH does not like driving it.

 

[otherclive]

I received useful info from DVSA notifying me that MG would be recalling cars already in service for a modification. The actual recall was announced on DVSAs website mid November. My daughter hasn’t received a recall notification but today when she took her car in for its first service the dealership told her that if she didn’t mind waiting a while longer the seat and airbag modification would be fitted. The dealer had recently received the parts and techies were au fait with the installation requirements. So in practical terms the time to resolve it hasn’t been too lengthy from when the problem was first announced; three months.

 

[Buckman]

I received useful info from DVSA notifying me that MG would be recalling cars already in service for a modification. The actual recall was announced on DVSAs website mid November. My daughter hasn’t received a recall notification but today when she took her car in for its first service the dealership told her that if she didn’t mind waiting a while longer the seat and airbag modification would be fitted. The dealer had recently received the parts and techies were au fait with the installation requirements. So in practical terms the time to resolve it hasn’t been too lengthy from when the problem was first announced; three months.

When there was a recall on the Bosch fuel pumps on Jeeps, it took several months for the updated version to be fitted as it was a worldwide recall. Basically 6 weeks is a very good turn around.

 

[RogerL]

When there was a recall on the Bosch fuel pumps on Jeeps, it took several months for the updated version to be fitted as it was a worldwide recall. Basically 6 weeks is a very good turn around.

That turn round is very good considering a presumably long supply chain back to China.

 

[Buckman]

That turn round is very good considering a presumably long supply chain back to China.

In our case the Bosch pumps came from Germany and not China?

 

[trevormonty]

I thought you would have realised that you cannot depend on a AI answer as on many occasions it has been known to be incorrect. I am not sure how it can come to that sort of conclusion as data would be very sparse plus the one big fact is proving that the accident could have been avoided using the safety system in a car. Are you aware that in France they are now investigating these safety systems due to some serious crashes i.e. car braking unexpectedly on a motorway?

There was a case of bird unloading on car which blocked AEB detection senses. Car did an emergency stop. For every one of theses rare events there are likely to be another 10 where system saved distracted driver (eg txting, reading emails, applying makeup).

While AEB is great it does require recommended following distances to be effective. Which means its useless on lot of Ford Rangers and BMWs.

 

[otherclive]

There was a case of bird unloading on car which blocked AEB detection senses. Car did an emergency stop. For every one of theses rare events there are likely to be another 10 where system saved distracted driver (eg txting, reading emails, applying makeup).

While AEB is great it does require recommended following distances to be effective. Which means its useless on lot of Ford Rangers and BMWs.

Why is it useless on Rangers, and BMWs ( surely not all?).

 

[Buckman]

There was a case of bird unloading on car which blocked AEB detection senses. Car did an emergency stop. For every one of theses rare events there are likely to be another 10 where system saved distracted driver (eg txting, reading emails, applying makeup).

While AEB is great it does require recommended following distances to be effective. Which means its useless on lot of Ford Rangers and BMWs.

Whichever way you look at it, ultimately the driver is still responsible so why bother with safety systems as it is not mandatory that they have to be switched on and working? If you need to rely on them to get you from A to B safely then maybe you should not be driving? One of the first things I do when getting into the cars is to switch off the lane assist/departure function as it is dangerous on country roads.

 

[RogerL]

Whichever way you look at it, ultimately the driver is still responsible so why bother with safety systems as it is not mandatory that they have to be switched on and working? If you need to rely on them to get you from A to B safely then maybe you should not be driving? One of the first things I do when getting into the cars is to switch off the lane assist/departure function as it is dangerous on country roads.

Too many drivers need these nanny aids to overcome their own shortcomings - many of us who don't need them will continue to invest in older cars!

I think my son is ready for a BMW - he got very frustrated with a recent hire car's lane departure warnings but was baffled that it was linked to use of the indicators.

 

[otherclive]

Whichever way you look at it, ultimately the driver is still responsible so why bother with safety systems as it is not mandatory that they have to be switched on and working? If you need to rely on them to get you from A to B safely then maybe you should not be driving? One of the first things I do when getting into the cars is to switch off the lane assist/departure function as it is dangerous on country roads.

I agree with you comment about driver responsibility for the car, but your views are not echoed by the IAM. That organisations research shows that such aids can improve overall safety. In any population there is a distribution curve encompassing the extremes of performance in the case of drivers from barely acceptable, or awful, to excellent. So such aids can in some circumstances compensate for driver performance, which can vary even in individuals depending on circumstances. In the caravan community ATC has become widely accepted but it should be no substitute for a well matched, properly loaded and sensibly driven outfit. Then there are the caravanners who do extremely long distances with minimal stops, I refuse to believe that at the end of such journeys their concentration and reaction times have not reduced between the start and end of the journey, and as the years age them.

IAMs research shows the younger generation of drivers are more accepting of driver aids, but it doesn’t show that they “ drive to the aids”. In my family the RAV4, Kia Rio, Polo, Tesla, Duster and MG all have the aids left on and none find them intrusive. Noticeable though is that the more modern cars (2-3 years) have made it more difficult to turn them off as they are menu driven and reset each time the car is restarted. Clearly your Yaris has a system that is intrusive and isn’t as good as other makes, or earlier Toyotas.

Here is IAM Roadsmarts link:

Majority of drivers are missing out on technology that can make their journeys safer

Only a quarter are regularly using driver assistance aids which may reduce collisions and improve driving comfort Younger drivers and those travelling more...

media.iamroadsmart.com

https://mnd-assets-bunny.mynewsdesk.com/image/upload/f_pdf,fl_attachment/vw8ydhtqoyv2ad4uukq0gr?fmt=jpeg

 

[Buckman]

I agree with you comment about driver responsibility for the car, but your views are not echoed by the IAM. That organisations research shows that such aids can improve overall safety. In any population there is a distribution curve encompassing the extremes of performance in the case of drivers from barely acceptable, or awful, to excellent. So such aids can in some circumstances compensate for driver performance, which can vary even in individuals depending on circumstances. In the caravan community ATC has become widely accepted but it should be no substitute for a well matched, properly loaded and sensibly driven outfit. Then there are the caravanners who do extremely long distances with minimal stops, I refuse to believe that at the end of such journeys their concentration and reaction times have not reduced between the start and end of the journey, and as the years age them.

IAMs research shows the younger generation of drivers are more accepting of driver aids, but it doesn’t show that they “ drive to the aids”. In my family the RAV4, Kia Rio, Polo, Tesla, Duster and MG all have the aids left on and none find them intrusive. Noticeable though is that the more modern cars (2-3 years) have made it more difficult to turn them off as they are menu driven and reset each time the car is restarted. Clearly your Yaris has a system that is intrusive and isn’t as good as other makes, or earlier Toyotas.

Here is IAM Roadsmarts link:

Majority of drivers are missing out on technology that can make their journeys safer

Only a quarter are regularly using driver assistance aids which may reduce collisions and improve driving comfort Younger drivers and those travelling more...

media.iamroadsmart.com

https://mnd-assets-bunny.mynewsdesk.com/image/upload/f_pdf,fl_attachment/vw8ydhtqoyv2ad4uukq0gr?fmt=jpeg

Obviously IAM have never used these so called safety aids on country roads as their use in those areas is dangerous. The land safety in the car may think you are too close to the side of the road and "pull" or twitch the car towards the middle of the road straight into the face of oncoming traffic. The other big issue is that many country roads also have bends where there are hedges on either side and the car detects the obstacle and brakes unexpectedly.

About two weeks ago we had a bit of an emergency and had to travel at night. If there was an oncoming car, I would slow right down and move to the left side of the road. The steering would react violently twitching etc to take me to the middle of the road. My fault as I forgot to switch off the lane assist which unfortunately automatically switches on every time you start the car.

On the Lexus once you switched it off, it stayed off no matter how many times you restarted the car. I wish I could permanently disable it so that it remained off unless I reactivated it. Not sure why manufacturers decided to make these safety systems reactivate every time you restart the car as it is not a mandatory requirement in the UK.

 

[otherclive]

Obviously IAM have never sued these so called safety aids on country roads as their use in those areas is dangerous. The land safety in the car may think you are too close to the side of the road and "pull" or twitch the car towards the middle of the road straight into the face of oncoming traffic. The other big issue is that many country roads also have bends where there are hedges on either side and the car detects the obstacle and brakes unexpectedly.

About two weeks ago we had a bit of an emergency and had to travel at night. If there was an oncoming car, I would slow right down and move to the left side of the road. The steering would react violently twitching etc to take me to the middle of the road. My fault as I forgot to switch off the lane assist which unfortunately automatically switches on every time you start the car.

On the Lexus once you switched it off, it stayed off no matter how many times you restarted the car. I wish I could permanently disable it so that it remained off unless I reactivated it. Not sure why manufacturers decided to make these safety systems reactivate every time you restart the car as it is not a mandatory requirement in the UK.

Your Yaris is certainly not brilliant, but we live and drive in rural areas, as do our family. None have had an issue with their lane assist. The facts are that the vast majority of accidents (90%+) are caused by human error, and driver safety aids have reduced accident severity as more have been introduced. Not only is this established via road safety bodies, but insurers too.. However, where shortcomings are identified it is beholden on the car makers and regulatory bodies to investigate these and implement improvements.

Makers make them reset every time you start to try and ensure they are activated when driving. Just like seat belts pings incessantly if you drive without them done up.