MIRRORS!

[emmerson]

This thread is interesting, as I have just won a pair of towing mirrors in the raffle a t ACCEO!
My previous ones are, apparently illegal, as they are as old as my caravan, so don't have the "e" mark.What they do very well though is give me excellent vision down both sides of the van from the driving seat of my Classic Range Rover.
Having won the new mirrors, I tried them on my return trip, and they are awful! They vibrate badly and don't give as long a view as my old ones, to which I will return,"e" mark or not!
Just for curiosity, Herself and I tried an experiment with these mirrors.When I spotted a given vehicle overtaking in the next lane, Herself started her stop-watch, then stopped it when the vehicle appeared in the standard mirror.The time difference was a staggering 14 seconds!!!! An awful lot can happen in 14 seconds at 60mph on a busy Mway, so I will continue to be safe, and,legal requirement or not, use extention mirrors.

 

[Sproket]

Interesting discussion, but I am having difficulty finding suitable mirrors for my unit....a Hymer caravan 8ft wide and a Mercedes ML350 tug, I have tried several mirrors but cant quite see the full length of the caravan, am I not adjusting them correctly?
curlyboy

I would have thought that a pair of Milenco Grand Aeros with some extra wide arms would do

 

[Surfer]

My previous ones are, apparently illegal, as they are as old as my caravan, so don't have the "e" mark.What they do very well though is give me excellent vision down both sides of the van from the driving seat of my Classic Range Rover.

Your previous mirrors will not be illegal. Not sure who told you that porkie?

 

[emmerson]

Can't remember, Surfer. Probably just an assumption when "e" marked mirrors were under discussion, but I would continue to use them anyway, as they're much better than the new ones.

 

[MichaelE]

Yes Milenco now do extra long arms for 2.5mt caravans, by the way i presume your towbar has been fitted now? Was it worth £2400?

 

[Raywood]

E mark mirrors are legally required in most cases. The CC did deal with this some time back and it is dealt with in their leaflet.
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/1022820/top-twenty-caravanning-questions.pdf for details.

 

[otherclive]

E mark mirrors are legally required in most cases. The CC did deal with this some time back and it is dealt with in their leaflet.
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/1022820/top-twenty-caravanning-questions.pdf for details.

i think your understanding of the leaflet is not correct. It specifies the previous standards too and providing your mirrors meet them they are legal. Visible E marks were not retrospective. It's like my rear fog light on an old Pajero it must work but it doesn't have to be linked to the headlights being on. Wheras more modern cars do require linkage.

 

[Surfer]

E mark mirrors are legally required in most cases. The CC did deal with this some time back and it is dealt with in their leaflet.
http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/1022820/top-twenty-caravanning-questions.pdf for details.

That statement confirms it is okay to use the older mirrors that do not have the special mark, but it is illegal for dealers to sell the mirrors without the mark. Milenco were guilty of creating scare tactics to try and boost sales of their mirrors.

 

[Phillipcharnwoodforest]

I think that I will carry on using extension mirrors as I feel that I can see that bit more and that to me is a bonus, and I don't want the hassle etc of the possible police action it may cause me if I don't use them.
It's a matter of personal choice as to wether you want to risk it with or without them. I for one wouldn't like to think that I had POSSIBLY, either caused or contributed to an accident by not using them.

 

[AbbeyOwner]

I have never used them, but keep them in the back locker just incase i get pulled over. but I havent been caught yet

 

[Parksy]

I have never used them, but keep them in the back locker just incase i get pulled over. but I havent been caught yet

This is a wind up, right?

Why would anybody not fit towing mirrors when towing their caravan but keep them in a locker?
It's not about being pulled over or caught, although that may happen and you could be fined and given points on your licence.
It's about your safety and the safety of other road users, you are not complying with the law because your caravan is wider than your car.

 

[AbbeyOwner]

I have never used them, but keep them in the back locker just incase i get pulled over. but I havent been caught yet

This is a wind up, right?

Why would anybody not fit towing mirrors when towing their caravan but keep them in a locker?
It's not about being pulled over or caught, although that may happen and you could be fined and given points on your licence.
It's about your safety and the safety of other road users, you are not complying with the law because your caravan is wider than your car.

i have used one on the drivers side,but they make me nausius and cause too much vibration. but from now on i will use them as i don't want risk a fine or given points. i have the milenco mirrors with the rubber straps.

 

[Parksy]

i have used one on the drivers side,but they make me nausius and cause too much vibration. but from now on i will use them as i don't want risk a fine or given points. i have the milenco mirrors with the rubber straps.

You'll get used to them if you use them regularly, the trick is to continue to use your normal morrors with regular glances into the Millenco's to check for overtaking vehicles or vehicles joining motoways from your left.
A good way to reduce vibration on rubber strap towing mirrors is to pull the straps through the fastening slots as usual, then hold them in the fastened position with one hand and stretch the rubber strap at the back of the mirror with the other and re-tighten. It's surprising how much extra stretch you can apply, this has the effect of tightening the towing mirror onto your normal mirror to reduce vibration.

 

[otherclive]

Won't the Milenco mirrors clamp onto the cars mirrors using the screw clamps. I've had my old style Milenco (not Aero) on a disco 2, Sorento, Saab9000 and XC70 and the are sufficiently adaptable to use screw clamps without the straps being necessary.

 

[Damian]

A car towing a caravan, first used on or after 26 January 2010,must use "E" Marked Mirrors.
Cars older than2010 do not.

 

[curlyboy]

Yes Milenco now do extra long arms for 2.5mt caravans, by the way i presume your towbar has been fitted now? Was it worth £2400?

...well as you ask,yes indeed it was as the dealer had great difficulty coding the SAM unit, spending in excess of a day trying, eventually having to contact Mercedes for their assisstance who concluded the wrong unit had been fitted! so a new one was ordered and fitted "at no expense to me" they honoured the original estimate!! They have now revised the estimate for this job to £3600, so all in all a "right good result". And the unit tow's wonderfully
curlyboy

 

[Gafferbill]

.......a good tip is to readjust your normal driving mirrors wider than when driving solo so that you do not see more than the front corner of your caravan. This gives a wider angle of view than otherwise would be the case in these mirrors.
Your extension mirrors will give you the must have view of the rear corners of your caravan.
It can take a while to get used to simultaneously looking in both mirrors but the size of your blind spots will be reduced.
Not much of an effort to achieve if you have electrically adjusted mirrors.

 

[MichaelE]

Doesnt it worry you that the dealer couldnt sort it out, the people who make these cars and you are paying £112 an hour for them to get assistance from someone else? Makes you wonder who fitted the wrong unit in the first place doesnt it? Or did they screw the unit up and havent told you?
They couldnt really charge you for the extra cost anyway so thats irrelevent.
Did they give you your old fan back?
Which towbar did they fit the factory fold away or a detachable?

 

[DaveA1]

.......a good tip is to readjust your normal driving mirrors wider than when driving solo so that you do not see more than the front corner of your caravan. This gives a wider angle of view than otherwise would be the case in these mirrors.
Your extension mirrors will give you the must have view of the rear corners of your caravan.
It can take a while to get used to simultaneously looking in both mirrors but the size of your blind spots will be reduced.
Not much of an effort to achieve if you have electrically adjusted mirrors.

This is what I do. On all but the smallest cars, the front will be picked up by the car mirror before the rear leaves the extension mirror, the rest of the motor is in a much reduced blind spot
I was cut up by an out fit not using towing mirrors, on the nearside at least, he had no idea where the back of his van was. I was towing as well if he had clipped me we would have been scattered all over the motor way.
Towing mirrors should always be fitted.

 

[otherclive]

A car towing a caravan, first used on or after 26 January 2010,must use "E" Marked Mirrors.
Cars older than2010 do not.

damian
Could you point me to where it says that, as my car is later than the date stated in your post, by 3 months!!

 

[otherclive]

Sorted. Just read the C&CC data sheet and quite by chance mine meet the requirements. Although I must admit all I had checked previously was that they had an E/e mark somewhere on them. Easy to understand how some may fall foul of the legislation when something as simple a mirror gets relatively so complex regarding its terms of use.

 

[Surfer]

A car towing a caravan, first used on or after 26 January 2010,must use "E" Marked Mirrors.
Cars older than2010 do not.

I think that only applies to the mirrors fitted to the car as standard and not to extension mirrors. Dealers cannot sell mirrors without the E mark but it is not illegal to use them on any vehicle.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I think that only applies to the mirrors fitted to the car as standard and not to extension mirrors. Dealers cannot sell mirrors without the E mark but it is not illegal to use them on any vehicle.

I think you may have that wrong.
Retailers can sell almost anything they like, including non 'e' marked mirrors, what they can't do is to miss describe the goods such as claiming 'e' marked when they are not (Trades descriptions). It is conceivable that a customer may want these unmarked mirrors for use off road (busieness yard, of farm etc) where compliance with 'e' marking is not required.

In almost all situations, the responsibility for ensuring a vehicle is roadworthy and legal falls on the driver. So why not on this one?

 

[Gafferbill]

Here are the facts courtesy of the C&CC

............note the reasons given at the end of the article regarding impact safety performance!

 

[Surfer]

Here are the facts courtesy of the C&CC

............note the reasons given at the end of the article regarding impact safety performance!

Thanks. It would be interesting to know under which law Mr Plod would prosecute you for not having E marked mirrors on your 2011 vehicle that is if they are aware of the E mark? If you did not have ext mirrors while you are towing, you could be prosecuted, but if you did and they never had the E mark, could you be prosecuted?