Mobile phones at petrol stations?

[Steve L]

I've meet folks like that myself Phil.

My mother-in-law lives in sheltered provided by the local council. They recently supposedly upgraded her electrics. Now bearing in mind she is elderly, had a few strokes which has left her perception of danger deficient, plus her being unsteady on her feet, when the assessor came she wanted us to be there.

I pointed to two 4 into 1 short extension leads we had neatly tucked under the front of her TV table to which I have fitted remote contol switching for her convienience, to over come the lack of sockets in the room. I asked for the upgrade to include fitting new sockets about 1 metre above floor height which would make life easy for her and inlater years would be wheelchair user friendly. What they actually did was convert one single socket to a double and then fit a second socket at usual height but supply that from a totally different MCB to the rest of the room.

Oh upon their return visit to check the work was done, they stated the additional requests had not been asked for, and condemmed the short extension leads that she still had to use as over loading the circuit despite the plug having 13amp fuse protection and the four appliances plugged into the 4way socket block only having a 3 amp fuse each.

I took the inspector to one side and showed him the rating of the MCB's which is 32amps and then showed him the fuse in the plug (13amps) and the four 3amp appliances. I had to explain to him the basic conception of adding fuse ratings and the fact that they under loaded the main plug by 1 amp let alone overload a ring main. Oh BTW he didn't know what a ring main circuit is!!

So why was he an electrical installation inspector?????

Steve L.

 

[Steve L]

i cannot belive you are still going on about getting shouted at for useing a mobile phone on the forcourt of a garage ( sitting in the car is classed as being on the forcourt)

Your point 5 was probably made at most, if not all garages after someone somewhere stated there could be a risk of fire or explosion if a mobile phone is used on a forcourt. So stopping yet another reason for insurance companys paying out, garages decided to put signs asking people not to use mobile phones.

in your words

"a resolution that is not only effective but efficient was made"

Actually David, I am answering peoples comments, which is generally known as conversation. Also as I haven't had a reply yet from morrisons I don't consider the discussion as complete.

Further more perhaps when you experience a berk on a tanoy thinking he is "disco dave" then you might just find out how annoying it can be.

Fortunately I'am in control of my emotions, but that type of un warranted distraction can cause people to get very hot under the collar.

ATB TTFN Steve L.

 

[Steve L]

since this is now a H & S issue perhaps the petrol station owners have carried out a risk assessment on the site and decided that mobile phones should not be used inside cars as well as outside.

Risk assessments are a mandatory part of the h & s environment we now live in ...party due to the over zealous H & S inspectors ensuring that they will have a long and fruit full career and a good pension to boot.

As an example , i recently noted our H & S consultant taking photgraphs of our electrical sockets at work. When i asked him why he explained that the risk assessment identified the possibility of the socket being overloaded. I asked him was that mechanically or electrically, he firstly told me it was mechanically, and i asked him what the max mechanical load on a socket was... he did not know, he then decided that it was electrical,and i asked " the only way to check if the socket is overloaded is to measure the current draw through the socket and if it exceeds the rating of the socket then its overloaded... taking a photograph will not provide the info - surely" .

This guy was highly qualified had a good reputation but talking absolute rollocks.

Your right phil, risk assessments are now basically written for every activity today. An over reactive risk assessor could keep himself in work for life. I ws asked to do that job for a local construction firm until they found out just how much of a cowboy outfit they realy are.

I attended a COSH regs (control of substances hazardous to health) coarse many years ago. One risk assessor brought up the subject of storing "Tipex" typists correction fluid. It transpired that the typing pool (some 30 staff) kept upto 10 litres of this fluid which is inflammable in the office store.

I made everyone laugh by stating "why not change the typist's if they can't spell correctly". Joking appart though, that is the root cause of the storage of so much chemical.

Health & Safety is just as easy or hard as you make it and by going ott, you can make a rod for your own back.

As a self employed engineer, I have an A4 folder of my own risk assessments for my daily work practices. It's basic and simple, but when I get checked out on site, the HSE inspector is impressed and disappears very quickly. The other engineers usually have a half day chat in a group which cost's our gaffer about

 

[David_374413417]

Actually David, I am answering peoples comments, which is generally known as conversation. Also as I haven't had a reply yet from morrisons I don't consider the discussion as complete.

Further more perhaps when you experience a berk on a tanoy thinking he is "disco dave" then you might just find out how annoying it can be.

Fortunately I'am in control of my emotions, but that type of un warranted distraction can cause people to get very hot under the collar.

ATB TTFN Steve L.

Steve L.

I hope you get the responce from morrisons you are after,

but i don't think you will.

I think you will have to accept that when a rule is broken you will be told about it (tanoy message from disco dave) he was only doing his job and so was the manager.

good luck David

 

[Trevor_374569540]

Prior to being a motorway cop I was a submariner for 12 years, Unfortunately I am of the old school i.e. when the sub dives the last one down the conning tower shuts the hatch - if he doesnt then we all drown. In those days there were not "risk assessments", its was all down to doing your job, you didnt need someone from another department to tell you how to do it - I think thats called "common sense". I have a daughter is in H & S and life working on the caravan and car can be a ****** sometimes, unfortunately H & S personnel sometimes lack the two words mentioned above "Common Sense". What they are really trying to achieve is to make sure the firm doesnt get clobbered by one of the troops claiming against them.

When I was a motorway cop and vehicles collided on the motorway and blocked lanes, we just took out the tow rope from the back and dragged them out of the way and the flow of traffic was back to normal very quickly despite the rubber neckers. Nowadays the vehicles have to remain in situ until the "Highways Agency" vehicle has done a risk assessment, then called an authorised towing firm, all this takes about an hour, result - huge tailbacks, bloody stupidity but all controlled by H & S anoraks.

End of rant

 

[Steve L]

Hi Trevor.

The Highways agencey was the biggest mistake ever made. I travel the M42 quite regularly and the new lane speed overhead speed signage is a joke. Of coarse run by the Highways agencey. You seldom get a national speed limit sign displayed allowing traffic to flow at 70Mph. Instead you see 60, 50, 60, 60, 50, 60 all the time even when clearly there is "No Need" to even have any limitation on vehicle flow. The only benefit I can see in this yo-yo speed setting is to deswade drivers from setting cruise control.

I'm ok though as my right foot is my cruise control!!??

I had a pucture last year on the M6 in our work van. It was on the back right side of the van, so i put the van off the hard shoulder only leaving about 500mm of the right side on the tarmac to enable the jack to be used. I was in Hi-viz trousers and a 3/4 length hi-viz jacket, and my mate was dressed simlarly. We placed our hazard triangle 100 Mtrs away and with my mate stood at the left side rear of the van as banksman (lookout), I proceeded to change the wheel. Well that was until the HA turned up! Apparently it was too dangerous to do for me! But they then called the AA out to change the wheel and we ended up with My van, the AA van, the Highways agencey van all on the hard shoulder. The last two being fully on the tarmac and within 50 mtrs of my van which had only 500mm on the tarmac. So now who the Bl***y hell can do a risk assessment and safely say that:-

A/ It needs 5 people to be on a motorway hard shoulder to do 1 mans work.

B/ It is safer to put 2 two ton vehicles as ready to aim missiles behind a work sceen.

C/ Why there was no lookout posted as my mate had been taken off his duty of care, and couldn't see anyway because of the two 2 ton road blocks.

The answer is a Quango agencey who self believes that only they and they alone can be inteligent enough to be able to do things safely.

In the old days if a motorway policeman could see quite clearly that you were doing things safely and would be quickly on your way, he would leave you to it. I supose that was called common sense.

The trouble today is that too many councils and other governing bodies don't single out who caused an incident, but instead will penalise everyone by either putting 50Mph limits on dual carriage ways A449 being a prime example, or do Blanket exclussions.

We have one on our caravan site. Because a couple of under 12 girls pratted about and flooded the washing up area the touring site is now adults (over 12's) only but the static vans can still have under 12's.

What realy should of been done was to fit the push type taps that are used in the toilets to the sinks in the washing up area, then nobody could leave a tap on for more than 30 seconds.

But that takes brain power, doesn't it? Or is that common sense?

BTW still waiting on Morrisons to put finger to key board, they don't use pens these days.

Atb Steve L.

 

[Philspadders]

with any luck we will see most of these quangos vanish over the next few years and we can get back to maming things.

6.7m people earn their living from the public purse, yet less than 3m are employed in making stuff that can be exported to earn money.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Phil.

I don't know so much about maming folks, but a majority of people will be able to get on with day to day life a hell of a lot better, without interferance.

For example, I've been fighting an ESA appeal because a quango seperate health commity Atos Health care, has to double check by way of a further medical "inspection", that my doctor and four hospital consultants were telling the truth that I need upto four operations in total to improve my quality of life sufficiently for me to return to work. I won my appeal after 47weeks of battle and enduring 2 of the 4 operations. But at the medical, the quack who hardly spoke audiable english, took no notice of what I said or read the letters from the hospital or the MRI and CT scan reports. Instead she awarded 6 points for the fact thta I wear two hearing aids.

Trust me, I'd rather be deaf than go through all the pain of arthritic joint operations caused by 33 years of working 12 to 16 hours a day to earn a crust to keep the family afloat.

I realy shows how wrong our Quango's are when they target sick people before they tackle the scroungers who haven't done a jot of work in ten years. By that I certainly do not mean those who have genuine illnesses and believe me you can see the genuine ones as they are the ones who struggle on no matter what is chucked at them. I have a niece who had a stroke at birth and often needs a crutch to walk, will most months use a wheel chair for some days, has learnt to drive a car and works as a teaching assistant rather than sit back and feel sorry for herself. What help did she get from the state when she was homeless. Jack S41t!!

I'll step off the soap box before Quango rage gives me a heart attack.

Steve L.

 

[Surfer]

ATOS do not employ doctors. They employed so called "Health professionals" whose highest qualification is in nursing. Basically they have no legal status which is why there are so many appeals and why so many are being won. They get a bonus for every person they can move from ESA to JSA.

The sad part is that a memo was leaked regarding people without limbs and what sort of work they would be capable of doing just so the Labour government was able to massage the figures. Problem was either way there was no work anyway.

 

[Parksy]

This debate is straying completely off topic and the discussion of ESA panels, the previous government policy etc has no place on this forum.

Unless there are further points to be added regarding the use of mobile phones on service station forecourts it's time to let this thread go.

 

[Steve L]

There is one item to add to this thread parksy and that is, the reply from Morrisons when they condesend to do so.

Leominster store is noted for it's ability to think it is above reproach. Only last year, there was a news paper article concerning a case where a 28 year old was refused a bottle of wine and then her parents were refused to be served wine on the same day. The reason being the store manager believed the wine was to be served to an already refused recipiant(28 years old).

When I have further information then I'll post it, as I believe it has opened a very constructive question about the over reaction to a HSE subject which because of it's sensativity can and does cause other health & safety issues to be raised, least of all frayed tempers and distractive behavior which could result in a serious risk to safety.

So I'll hold fire for now until an official response is issued.

Steve L.

 

[Steve L]

As promised here are the official responses from Morrisons and the local planning authority & council.

First off the council & planning authorities.

They clearly state that mobile phones must be prevented from use (switched off & preferably left in the vehicle) by the person carrying out re-fuelling of vehicles or fuel deliveries to the garage forcourt. They also state that engineers carrying out repairs should do like wise unless a specific task demands circumstances otherwise.

For all other aspects of fuel station regulation consultation with HSE is satisfactory and acceptable.

Well that is the short version of the ten page document I recieved from our local council who issue the license to retail & dispence flammable fuel.

As for Morrisons they simply stated that they have to follow conditions laid down by the local council who issue their license. They did specifically state that mobiles must not be used while refuelling your car. (which we all comply with, even me). But they clearly shifted the buck for legislation onto the council, without any mention of the HSE guidance at all.

They did say that the person concerned would be councilled about correct customer rapor.

So as expected a lot of buck passing but no clear definition of what they do and why.

I did ask for copies of risk assessments concerning filling of vehicle fuel tanks and the use of mobiles but unfortunately got nothing. You might say I'm not entitled to them, but any person using any facility in a commercial company can by law ask to see the risk assessment and safe working practice documentation for anny process that they are actively engaged in. These documents should be freely available from the designated HES (Health, environment & safety) managers office, with a copy kept at the process control area or fuel station in this case.

Any way, I'll still use them if they are the cheapest fuel supplier but that will be the criteria. I did just that yesterday for the first time since the frackar. The manager was serving untill he saw me and then scuttled off to put up signs at every pump except the one I was parked at, read from that what you will, but as the shop was full of customers and the remaining assistant was not happy about being left to do twice the work, i guess it signalled that disco Dave (the manager has been spoken to. Now he has ellected not to serve me, oh dear.

Still I've got broad shoulders as they say.

So I guess that's the end of the saga, well until the next time I forget to conficate everyone mobile.

ATB TTFN steve L.

 

[NickinFrance]

[quotw]They also state that engineers carrying out repairs should do like wise unless a specific task demands circumstances otherwise.[/quote]

So it's safe to use a mobile phone when a specific task demands it but not otherwise I'm now confused.

Apart from thinking up silly rules to justify their own existence the major problem with the HSE industry is that they have never heard of the story about the 'Boy who cried Wolf'