MOT for caravans

[otherclive]

In several European countries you pay to use motorways either by tolls or vignette. What few seem to be aware of is that the costs to put a car on the road and insure it is considerably more than in UK, and their fuel costs are similar to ours. UK governments have allowed real motoring taxes to fall behind the rise in national incomes such that we complian when an increase is proposed. But if we took a more global view we would see we are not that badly served. One area that desperately needs to be addressed is the ludicrous situation where small cars under 100 gm/ km pay no road fund tax to use any road. There should be a £100 minimum to tax any car. With no or low road fund tax on small fuel efficient cars and les tax from fuel used the Goverment revenues are dropping away so an increase is required.

 

[Surfer]

In several European countries you pay to use motorways either by tolls or vignette. What few seem to be aware of is that the costs to put a car on the road and insure it is considerably more than in UK, and their fuel costs are similar to ours. UK governments have allowed real motoring taxes to fall behind the rise in national incomes such that we complian when an increase is proposed. But if we took a more global view we would see we are not that badly served. One area that desperately needs to be addressed is the ludicrous situation where small cars under 100 gm/ km pay no road fund tax to use any road. There should be a £100 minimum to tax any car. With no or low road fund tax on small fuel efficient cars and les tax from fuel used the Goverment revenues are dropping away so an increase is required.

however those countries re-invest in their road structure whereas in the UK they don't as the money is ring fenced for other projects.

 

[otherclive]

Yes I'd agree that our investment in roads and other infrastructure has not been good. Although I can't say I've seen any state breweries built with the vast sums I've spent patronising pubs!!! LOL
On a historical note VED came in in 1888 and between 1920-37 the monies were ring fenced into the Road Fund but since 1937 it has been considered just as general taxation.

 

[JonnyG]

In several European countries you pay to use motorways either by tolls or vignette. What few seem to be aware of is that the costs to put a car on the road and insure it is considerably more than in UK, and their fuel costs are similar to ours. UK governments have allowed real motoring taxes to fall behind the rise in national incomes such that we complian when an increase is proposed. But if we took a more global view we would see we are not that badly served. One area that desperately needs to be addressed is the ludicrous situation where small cars under 100 gm/ km pay no road fund tax to use any road. There should be a £100 minimum to tax any car. With no or low road fund tax on small fuel efficient cars and les tax from fuel used the Goverment revenues are dropping away so an increase is required.

however those countries re-invest in their road structure whereas in the UK they don't as the money is ring fenced for other projects.

i thought we were compairing like with like? firstly our income tax rate is lower than many of our industrial neighbours and tax being tax the shortfall has to come from somewhere, as for" they" re invest in their roads, who is they? i ask because thats what i have been hearing since i was old enough to drive,3 decades past and "they" whoever they are seem to have numerous roads works, congestion and the likes and some even have the benefit of toll roads. normally privately funded leaving "they" with less roads to maintain or indeed new roads to build.I mean anyone care to tell me which were/are the last major roads paid for by taxpayers, build in the last 3 decades?

 

[NickinFrance]

firstly our income tax rate is lower than many of our industrial neighbours and tax being tax the shortfall has to come from somewhere,

I saw a report a couple of years ago showing the total tax 'take' including sales, property & other taxes plus medical insurance/social medicine contributions for a typical 'middle manager' earning £40,000 pa in the top 15 industrialised nations was between 49% & 52%.
Each country gets you in a different way but they DO get you in the end.

 

[NickinFrance]

In several European countries you pay to use motorways either by tolls or vignette. What few seem to be aware of is that the costs to put a car on the road and insure it is considerably more than in UK, and their fuel costs are similar to ours.

I can only speak about France but it is the case that SOME motorways are toll (none in Brittany where I live).
My motoring costs are:
Initial registration @ 35€ per C.V. (my 2.0D Jaguar X-Type is 9 C.V.) £250
Annual road fund license 0
CT (MoT test) 70€ (£56) every 2 years after car is 4 years old.
Fully comp, including full European breakdown Insurance for my Jag & 9,000€ caravan 580€ (£465) a year
Diesel, this morning at a small local supermarket, 1.359€/lt (£1.09/lt)
Apart from the Initial registration, these are all significantly cheaper than the UK

 

[otherclive]

In several European countries you pay to use motorways either by tolls or vignette. What few seem to be aware of is that the costs to put a car on the road and insure it is considerably more than in UK, and their fuel costs are similar to ours. UK governments have allowed real motoring taxes to fall behind the rise in national incomes such that we complian when an increase is proposed. But if we took a more global view we would see we are not that badly served. One area that desperately needs to be addressed is the ludicrous situation where small cars under 100 gm/ km pay no road fund tax to use any road. There should be a £100 minimum to tax any car. With no or low road fund tax on small fuel efficient cars and les tax from fuel used the Goverment revenues are dropping away so an increase is required.

however those countries re-invest in their road structure whereas in the UK they don't as the money is ring fenced for other projects.

i thought we were compairing like with like? firstly our income tax rate is lower than many of our industrial neighbours and tax being tax the shortfall has to come from somewhere, as for" they" re invest in their roads, who is they? i ask because thats what i have been hearing since i was old enough to drive,3 decades past and "they" whoever they are seem to have numerous roads works, congestion and the likes and some even have the benefit of toll roads. normally privately funded leaving "they" with less roads to maintain or indeed new roads to build.I mean anyone care to tell me which were/are the last major roads paid for by taxpayers, build in the last 3 decades?

new roads and upgradesin last three decades:
m40 extension and widening of original plus active traffic management
M5 widening south of Bham to M50 plus lighting
M25 widening south of heathrow plus active traffic managemnt(ATM)
M4 Newport to Cardiff widening plus ATM
M4 eastbound widening bath-A46
M4 west widening near Bristol plus new works on M4M5 jnct and ATM
M6 widening near Preston to Blackpool jncts
M6 new bridge over Manchester ship canal
M74 from Carlisle to Glasgow upgrade from previous old A74
new linking motorways around Glasgow to Stirling
A9 upgrade to M9 and dualling A9 from Perth to Inverness well in hand
M42 widening and ATM
second Severn Crossing
A1/A1m upgrades
M6 toll you can now drive Plymouth to Perth on toll free motorways or Dover to Perth if you so wish and on to Inverness too within the next few years. So it's not all bad news

 

[Surfer]

In several European countries you pay to use motorways either by tolls or vignette. What few seem to be aware of is that the costs to put a car on the road and insure it is considerably more than in UK, and their fuel costs are similar to ours. UK governments have allowed real motoring taxes to fall behind the rise in national incomes such that we complian when an increase is proposed. But if we took a more global view we would see we are not that badly served. One area that desperately needs to be addressed is the ludicrous situation where small cars under 100 gm/ km pay no road fund tax to use any road. There should be a £100 minimum to tax any car. With no or low road fund tax on small fuel efficient cars and les tax from fuel used the Goverment revenues are dropping away so an increase is required.

however those countries re-invest in their road structure whereas in the UK they don't as the money is ring fenced for other projects.

i thought we were compairing like with like? firstly our income tax rate is lower than many of our industrial neighbours and tax being tax the shortfall has to come from somewhere, as for" they" re invest in their roads, who is they? i ask because thats what i have been hearing since i was old enough to drive,3 decades past and "they" whoever they are seem to have numerous roads works, congestion and the likes and some even have the benefit of toll roads. normally privately funded leaving "they" with less roads to maintain or indeed new roads to build.I mean anyone care to tell me which were/are the last major roads paid for by taxpayers, build in the last 3 decades?

new roads and upgradesin last three decades:
m40 extension and widening of original plus active traffic management
M5 widening south of Bham to M50 plus lighting
M25 widening south of heathrow plus active traffic managemnt(ATM)
M4 Newport to Cardiff widening plus ATM
M4 eastbound widening bath-A46
M4 west widening near Bristol plus new works on M4M5 jnct and ATM
M6 widening near Preston to Blackpool jncts
M6 new bridge over Manchester ship canal
M74 from Carlisle to Glasgow upgrade from previous old A74
new linking motorways around Glasgow to Stirling
A9 upgrade to M9 and dualling A9 from Perth to Inverness well in hand
M42 widening and ATM
second Severn Crossing
A1/A1m upgrades
M6 toll you can now drive Plymouth to Perth on toll free motorways or Dover to Perth if you so wish and on to Inverness too within the next few years. So it's not all bad news

No mention of the numerous A roads that desperately need upgrading. One of the reasons why a lot of M roads had to be upgraed was to accommodate heavier and bigger HGVs from the EU otherwise they will still be full of pot holes or ruts. I think the philosophy for many M roads intially was cheap and cheerful until they foudn out they had to keep repairing them.
BTW why does it take so long to do a road repair in this country? They have been working on the M50 for the last 6 months and this is for a stretch of about 10 miles? Most times you hardly see any one doing anything!

 

[Gybe]

There is some absolute rubbish here about here about UK motoring. Lets not forget that despite many of cars coming from overseas, we have lead the world in automotive design and research for generations. Cars are still sent from America, Europe, Japan and the rest of the world for testing and development and improvement. Much of medern day electronics and safety and matearials improvement have come via the UK

Remember that our small island has been known as "Treasure Island" to the worlds motoring industry as they made so much money from us. Also for a small densely populated island we have a lot of cars that have generated a huge amount of money.
Very little of the taxes we pay from motoring go back to our roads and that is partly why the Germans in the past built more motorway in a year than we did in ten or more.

The average French family and many other European families have been driving diesel cars for 40 years or more and with diesel that was far far cheaper than our diesel and petrol. Add to that cheaper car prices and cheaper servicing and repairs and you have a completely different case for toll roads compared to the UK.

We pay taxes in many different ways and are one of the most over taxed countries in the world.

 

[otherclive]

After having owned some of Uk's splendid cars I must admit to getting quite nostalgic about their lack of quality and utter unreliabilty so in 1976 I must admit to being tempted offshore, and I cannot say i regret it, nor does my bank account. For historical reasons the Germans stole a lead on motorway building but if you loks at the DoT Annual reprt or Traffic Statistics you will see that in UK in 2011 VED raised £5.8bn and Fuel Duty £27.3Bn so getting rid of VED should not lead to significant incraese in fuel duty. Of the £33.1Bn raised from vehicle taxes some £9.5Bn was spent on roads some 29%. In Germany in that year €50bn was raised and €15bn spent on roads a surprsingly 30% If you convert the German spend it is quite close to the UK spend and given Germanys higher GDP they spent less on roads (or per capita) than UK.
A German diesel car is taxed both on its emmisions and cylinder capacity. So a 2litre diesel could be taxed at between €260 for the cleanest and €740 for on old one. The Dutch pay €596 for a 1000kg (yes 1000kg) petrol and €676 for the equivalent diesel anda whopping €724 for a 1000kg LPG car. Just think what they must be paying for their tow cars, no wonder they all tow small Sudwinds!
France seems the best placed but given that the autoroute tolls can be expensive youd have to decide on A or RN/D roads. But the Goverment levy a tax of €6.86 on every 1000km driven on toll roads direct from the road operators. They also pay their corporation taxes which of course French and other motorists contribute to by using such roads.
There is a mass of info in UK DoT Annual reprts, German goverment reports and the European Commision websites. The latter covering all of the main taxation rates for most taxes in EU countries. Very informative, and as one of my bosses once said " I wake up each morning and give thanks that I was borne in Britain"

 

[Gybe]

otherclive. It matters little about what Germany or anyone else do now! Germany invested far more in their Motorway and road networks over the past 60 years and were knocking out mile upon mile of road upgrades whilst the UK was sat talking about what could be done and seeing if anyone objected.Many European motorists have benefitted from cheaper diesel and petrol and cheaper cars and servicing etc for decades. Peddling what goes on now is worthless when generations of UK motorists have been robbed supporting the NHS the benefits system and a lot else of our economy.
The UK doesn't have to follow what others do.

 

[JonnyG]

otherclive. It matters little about what Germany or anyone else do now! Germany invested far more in their Motorway and road networks over the past 60 years and were knocking out mile upon mile of road upgrades whilst the UK was sat talking about what could be done and seeing if anyone objected.Many European motorists have benefitted from cheaper diesel and petrol and cheaper cars and servicing etc for decades. Peddling what goes on now is worthless when generations of UK motorists have been robbed supporting the NHS the benefits system and a lot else of our economy.
The UK doesn't have to follow what others do.

thats what i wanted to know, has germany invested more in their motorways in the last 60 years? takinging into account inflation? as for petrol and diesel prices well OK the last Two decades the uk has been dearer, well actually 18 years next year and no more if we are looking at the major economies france germany and italy....so generations! i thing not........and for all our so called higher than the rest taxation system we seem to have plenty knocking on our door, with less than 10% of those trying to rob us of our benefit system.....thought it best to get that last line in......

 

[otherclive]

And here I was thinking that you wanted some details of major roads in UK built at taxpayer expense over the last three decades. And yes M6 toll and Second Severn Crossing did involve taxpayer funding, but that's another thread! OAO

 

[JonnyG]

And here I was thinking that you wanted some details of major roads in UK built at taxpayer expense over the last three decades. And yes M6 toll and Second Severn Crossing did involve taxpayer funding, but that's another thread! OAO

hi clive, yes thank you for that, my remark was more so to do with remarks about "we" the UK had not been spending on major roads like other major countries arounds us had in the last few decades. And i wondered and still am wondering how true that is.
whilst i know car road tax is used symply as a tax and not all the monies go back into the roads system wondered if those around us
did things any differently. ie use ALL there car road tax monies for the roads.
again possibly not explained that very well, but wanted to see what other major countries around us had built using tax payers monies compared to us, i dont think we have done too badly,that was my piont.....

 

[Surfer]

Either way NO caravan MOT now or in the near future (10 years plus)!

 

[Raggy]

Caravan compulsory testing (MOT tests) took a step closer to happening due to an EU vote...
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/content/20130624FCS14305/3/html/Parliament-includes-motorbikes-in-updated-vehicle-check-rules
Enjoy!