MOT for caravans

Mar 14, 2005
17,715
3,137
50,935
Visit site
Hello Surfer,

Having quickly read the document I basically agree with your comment. It seems the UK Gov. is not in favour of introducing an official MOT for none commercial trailers at the moment on the basis of accident reduction which is the driving force of the EU's document.

That is not to say the Govt. may not consider it at a latter date for other reasons such as registration revenue income or road charging schemes.

I'm not averse to the idea of an 'MOT style' test for caravans. Having worked on some caravans I have been alarmed at what some owners will do or fail to do to their caravans, and I have had major concerns about their safety, both from road worthiness aspect and from especially gas safety. Perhaps its something that the Insurance industry may take up and make renewal of policies dependant on the caravan having an annual 'safety pass' report from an approved workshop.
 
Nov 11, 2009
20,451
6,288
50,935
Visit site
A condition of my insurance is that the van is serviced annually by an NCC approved workshop/ mobile technician. No proof is required but that could easily be arranged although in the event of a claim they can ask for proof of service. I wouldn't object to such an approach being mandated across the insurance industry. Although it would affect the DIY service people.
 
Aug 4, 2004
4,343
1
0
Visit site
Prof John L said:
Hello Surfer,

Having quickly read the document I basically agree with your comment. It seems the UK Gov. is not in favour of introducing an official MOT for none commercial trailers at the moment on the basis of accident reduction which is the driving force of the EU's document.

That is not to say the Govt. may not consider it at a latter date for other reasons such as registration revenue income or road charging schemes.

I'm not averse to the idea of an 'MOT style' test for caravans. Having worked on some caravans I have been alarmed at what some owners will do or fail to do to their caravans, and I have had major concerns about their safety, both from road worthiness aspect and from especially gas safety. Perhaps its something that the Insurance industry may take up and make renewal of policies dependant on the caravan having an annual 'safety pass' report from an approved workshop.
John I find myself agreeing with you, but before we jump the gun it would be interesting to see the statistics relating to accidents involving caravans and whether the accident was due to a fault with the caravan. Pity insurance companies will not create a searchable database that could be used by all.
Even if you had a MOT every 6 months, this will not prevent overloading, speeding etc. Somehow I doubt very much if there are many caravan accidents relating to a fault on the caravan and if so these probably would be related to old tyres in bad condition. By the same token if there is sufficient tread on the tyre although the tyre may be cracking it is not an offence as who can say the tyre is in a dangerous condition.
 
Jul 15, 2008
3,646
670
20,935
Visit site
....... there is a technical problem with introducing an MOT for caravans in that It is not easy to test the brakes for efficiency.

As far as I am aware there is no device available that can activate the overrun actuator on a light trailer or caravan whilst its brakes are tested on a roller brake tester as used in private testing stations authorised to carry out VOSA vehicle testing.
Such a device would have to be developed to mimic on the road braking conditions and it could not cause any damage to a customers trailer or caravan whilst the test was being carried out.

I do not think anyone has any idea how to go about such brake testing at the present time.
 

Damian

Moderator
Mar 14, 2005
7,510
936
30,935
Visit site
Quote " I do not think anyone has any idea how to go about such brake testing at the present time."

There is a piece of equipment which can simulate the application of brakes on a caravan, but I doubt that VOSA would be prepared to finance the number required for every MOT station.

Properly serviced and adjusted brakes really do not need testing, the cannot fail to work as it is a mechanical application, no hydraulic fluid to leak away, no electronics to fail.
 
May 15, 2007
471
1
0
Visit site
i dont go overseas so dont know the speed limits in different countries but i believe they are higher than the 60mph here. are there more accidents there than here, and are they speed related. this could be the problem.
 
Oct 28, 2006
1,060
0
0
Visit site
Sorry Damian dont agree there,Vosa like to see three volantary brake tests a year plus the brake test at the time of the MOT for commercial vehicles.Vosa quite clearly think its a critical item as do i,so with out a brake test how can you tell the effiency of the brake.The mechanical items may look sound but how about the friction material, i.e linings to drums?The point is Vosa do not finance the equipment in MOT test stations.This is done privately,and especially now as most stations are going privately owned.
 
Nov 11, 2009
20,451
6,288
50,935
Visit site
For most European countries speed limits are lower than in UK. Also in Germany to drive at their higher limit requires certain attributes to be confirmed, such as shock absorbers fitted to van. In France outfits below 3500kg can travel at the higher speed limit but when you consider that the 3500kg is the cars GVM +vans MTPLM then I suggest that most UK units are above this figure. Its calculated on the figures stated in V5 and van tally plate not the actual loads carried.
On the subject of trailer testing the recent HoC report calculated that for all trailers to be tested annually would cost around £250M so one has to show a significant cost benefit against the accepted value of saving a life to incur such national expenditure. I tend to agree that driver error, overloading or tyre failure probably cause most caravan incidents and an annual test would not bowl these out, whereas insurance conditions could ensure regular annual servicing at an approved workshop, but even this would not tackle the uninsured vans/trailers and there is no legal requirment yet to isnure them.
 
Aug 4, 2004
4,343
1
0
Visit site
Maybe a way to tackle the problem, is to make insurance compulsory and one of the conditions is that the unit must be serviced annually. Secondly before you tow, you must sit a theoretical exam related to towing and this applies to current towers. IMHO the current practical test is a waste of time and a money grabbing exercise. You can tow from day one a combination up to 3500kg, but over that you need to sit an exam and do a practical? Can some please explain the difference between towing at 3500kg or towing at 4000kg?
 

Parksy

Moderator
Nov 12, 2009
11,904
2,399
40,935
Visit site
Surfer said:
Maybe a way to tackle the problem, is to make insurance compulsory and one of the conditions is that the unit must be serviced annually. Secondly before you tow, you must sit a theoretical exam related to towing and this applies to current towers. IMHO the current practical test is a waste of time and a money grabbing exercise. You can tow from day one a combination up to 3500kg, but over that you need to sit an exam and do a practical? Can some please explain the difference between towing at 3500kg or towing at 4000kg?

I don't agree that there is a 'problem' Surfer.
There is no evidence AFAIK to suggest that poor caravan maintenance is the cause of most caravan related road traffic incidents. Statistics show that the number of road traffic incidents involving all vehicles towing trailers, including towing vehicles over 3500kg and heavy goods vehicles are very low, around 1% of all road traffic incidents and casualties (see the official response to a similar proposal for caravan MOT testing.)
The cost of introducing first of all touring caravan registration and then MOT testing would outweigh any financial benefit gained and it is not thought that the introduction of MOT testing would have any significant impact on the current figures.
The official response (linked to earlier) states that data already held
suggests that overloading and inappropriate road speed and driving
behaviour are more likely than poor maintenance to be the main causal
factor in road traffic incidents involving towed trailers and the
present legislation, backed by VOSA roadside checks is enough, given the
relatively few towing related incidents.

It is also an indisputable fact that older drivers are involved in fewer road traffic incidents, and drivers aged between 40 - 60 years are statistically the safest drivers.
The touring caravan owning demographic falls firmly within this age group, so as responsible safe drivers who demonstrably already maintain our tourers to a resonable standard why should we talk ourselves into giving a money grubbing government the excuse to raise the already considerable cost of our hobby?
The UK already adopts much higher standards for mot testing than many EU countries, and these proposals were designed to bring these other countries standards more into line with our own, not the other way round.
MOT testing for caravans?
Not in favour!
 
May 7, 2012
8,567
1,795
30,935
Visit site
I tend to the theory that there are simply not enough caravans being towed on the road for the government to worry about making them have an MOT type test. Whilst some of us tow possibly a few thousand miles a year others are doing less than a thousand and for the latter an MOT would simply not be worthwhile. I would doubt the law would be for simply caravans as that is too difficult to define but would have to be for trailers over a certain weight either unladen or gross or trailers used for habitation purposes which would include trailer tents.
It might cause problems for travellers so the government could avoid it on the basis that they do not want to be seen to be prejudicing a certain ethnic group.
 
Jun 20, 2005
17,421
3,587
50,935
Visit site
A recent caravan channel programme showed the police doing random tests on caravans / trailers. The very knowledgable officer found some very serious tyre faults. In his opinion the tyres were dangerous. From what I saw I agree. VOSA were also on site. They said the poor tyres were ok!!

Policing and managing caravan mots is economically unviable IMO.
 
Feb 7, 2010
349
3
18,685
Visit site
Dustydog said:
A recent caravan channel programme showed the police doing random tests on caravans / trailers. The very knowledgable officer found some very serious tyre faults. In his opinion the tyres were dangerous. From what I saw I agree. VOSA were also on site. They said the poor tyres were ok!!

Policing and managing caravan mots is economically unviable IMO.

I saw the same programme and if by some miracle my tyres were that bad I would have been petrified to tow the Caravan. Another thing I was surprised at was that you could be fined seperately for each missing mirror.

Les
 
Oct 30, 2009
1,542
0
19,680
Visit site
hi all,
while in principal I have no objection to the introduction of a mot type test for trailers, I does consern me about the thin edge of the wedge senario, just look at whats happend with the car mot since it's inseption from a simple brakes lights and streering, test to the comprehensive test that cars have to go through now including the towbar and electrics, not to mention all the add ons that are included year by year, as a result the fees go up,
the same goes for the preposal that insurance companies should dictate how and when you have the van serviced what a cheek, your car insurance does not tell you when and where to service the car so why should the vans insurance be allowed to.
All this is aimed at extracting the most ammout of money out of the poor SOP at the end of the line, so accept it at your peril.
this may be ok if you are the type that can afford a new van every time a new model comes out and can use the van at the drop of a hat all year round, but for the rest of us that want to do our caravanning as cheap as possible within the time scale we have available the more it costs the less appealing the hobby becomes, allready the average cost is approaching £50 per night overall and very close to the break point, it is only the freedom that the van gives us that keeps us going, adding more cost would be a killer.
as Sufer said in the OP this preposal is unlikely to happen any time soon, but is one of the subjects that keeps cropping up from time to time and will not go away!!!!!.
 
Aug 4, 2004
4,343
1
0
Visit site
Parksy said:
Surfer said:
Maybe a way to tackle the problem, is to make insurance compulsory and one of the conditions is that the unit must be serviced annually. Secondly before you tow, you must sit a theoretical exam related to towing and this applies to current towers. IMHO the current practical test is a waste of time and a money grabbing exercise. You can tow from day one a combination up to 3500kg, but over that you need to sit an exam and do a practical? Can some please explain the difference between towing at 3500kg or towing at 4000kg?

I don't agree that there is a 'problem' Surfer.
There is no evidence AFAIK to suggest that poor caravan maintenance is the cause of most caravan related road traffic incidents. Statistics show that the number of road traffic incidents involving all vehicles towing trailers, including towing vehicles over 3500kg and heavy goods vehicles are very low, around 1% of all road traffic incidents and casualties (see the official response to a similar proposal for caravan MOT testing.)
The cost of introducing first of all touring caravan registration and then MOT testing would outweigh any financial benefit gained and it is not thought that the introduction of MOT testing would have any significant impact on the current figures.
The official response (linked to earlier) states that data already held
suggests that overloading and inappropriate road speed and driving
behaviour are more likely than poor maintenance to be the main causal
factor in road traffic incidents involving towed trailers and the
present legislation, backed by VOSA roadside checks is enough, given the
relatively few towing related incidents.

It is also an indisputable fact that older drivers are involved in fewer road traffic incidents, and drivers aged between 40 - 60 years are statistically the safest drivers.
The touring caravan owning demographic falls firmly within this age group, so as responsible safe drivers who demonstrably already maintain our tourers to a resonable standard why should we talk ourselves into giving a money grubbing government the excuse to raise the already considerable cost of our hobby?
The UK already adopts much higher standards for mot testing than many EU countries, and these proposals were designed to bring these other countries standards more into line with our own, not the other way round.
MOT testing for caravans?
Not in favour!

I think you misunderstood my posy entirely. If no MOT or registrartion happened, the easiest way around it is to make it compulsory for caravans to be insured. The insurance company then has a clause mentioning a service at least once every two years for insurance to be valid. Onus no longer on government and a cheaper method to ensure roadworthy caravans.
As for towing anything, perhaps in the future you could be required to sit an exam and do a practical test.
Both would be very cost effective to the government and go a long way towards saving lives.
 
Jun 20, 2005
17,421
3,587
50,935
Visit site
Surfer said:
I think you misunderstood my posy entirely. If no MOT or registrartion happened, the easiest way around it is to make it compulsory for caravans to be insured.

I see where you're coming from Surfer, but Insured for what??
smiley-undecided.gif


When attached to the towing vehicle the "Road Risk " cover for the caravan is with the motor insurer.
Not everyone wants to insure the caravan itself , so from a practical point I can't see your proposal working. Sorry.
 

Parksy

Moderator
Nov 12, 2009
11,904
2,399
40,935
Visit site
Surfer said:
I think you misunderstood my posy entirely. If no MOT or registrartion happened, the easiest way around it is to make it compulsory for caravans to be insured. The insurance company then has a clause mentioning a service at least once every two years for insurance to be valid. Onus no longer on government and a cheaper method to ensure roadworthy caravans.
As for towing anything, perhaps in the future you could be required to sit an exam and do a practical test.
Both would be very cost effective to the government and go a long way towards saving lives.

I remain unconvinced that there is a need for any new towing legislation or caravan insurance requirement to be introduced Surfer.
As Dustydog stated, a touring caravan is already covered by the towing vehicle insurance when it is being towed, personally I choose to insure my caravan against loss or damage with a separate policy but I don't see the need for this to be made compulsory, it is purely a matter of choice and up to the individual.

My caravan insurance policy (C&CC Clubcare new for old) states that any accident resulting in damage which happens whilst the caravan is being towed is not covered by that policy and claims must be made against my motor vehicle insurance policy.
I receive a discount from my caravan insurance for regular servicing but I wouldn't want the insurers to dictate to me when and where my caravan has to be serviced and I definitely wouldn't want my caravan insurance premium to be more expensive.

If I decided to take a C&CC towing course I'd receive a small premium discount but as an ex HGV driver who drove articulated vehicles for many years I really don't see the need.
VOSA roadside checks are designed to weed out dangerously unroadworthy caravans,
and there will be more of them as time goes by.

I'd much rather
that government funding went towards more police patrols which would
deter ALL dangerous drivers, ALL unroadworthy and uninsured vehicles and ALL drivers under the influence of drugs or alcohol, why should a predomiantly safe and law abiding section of road users be targetted?
Legislation already exists which compel those who passed their driving test after 1/1/1997 to undertake furthertraining to pass their B+E licence if they wish to tow with a combined weight of over 3500kg.
If caravanners caused carnage on the highways and byways of Britain I'd agree that new towing legislation should be introduced but clearly this is not the case.
The Dept of Transport accepts that towing vehicles are involved in fewer road traffic incidents involving injury or death than other group of road users.
The figure quoted is around 1% of the total and this includes r.t. incidents not involving death or injury and it also includes heavy goods vehicles, vehicles over 3500kg as well as vehicles towing touring caravans.

There is no evidence to suggest that MOT testing for caravans or more stringent towing tests would save lives, given that there are so few deaths due to towing rti's anyway.
All that it would do would be to render touring caravans too expensive a hobby for the majority of hard pressed families, and to make it more difficult for the British caravan industry to prosper so British jobs would be lost and the UK tourist industry would also be adverseley affected resulting in the loss of yet more jobs.

More people would claim benefits and there would be a loss of income tax revenue and NI contributions, so meddlesome EU proposals designed to bring those with poorer road safety records than our own into line with us would once again cost the British tax payer more money.

I think that government raises more than enough revenue through fuel
excise duty, VAT on fuel (and on the excise duty levied on fuel, a tax
on a tax
smiley-yell.gif
),
VAT on sky high insurance premiums, congestion charges and road fund
licences without being allowed to get their grubby mitts on even more of
our money, and so any further legislation which would make caravanning
even more expensive than it already is should be fierceley resisted.
 
Feb 7, 2010
349
3
18,685
Visit site
Parksy said:
Surfer said:
I think you misunderstood my posy entirely. If no MOT or registrartion happened, the easiest way around it is to make it compulsory for caravans to be insured. The insurance company then has a clause mentioning a service at least once every two years for insurance to be valid. Onus no longer on government and a cheaper method to ensure roadworthy caravans.
As for towing anything, perhaps in the future you could be required to sit an exam and do a practical test.
Both would be very cost effective to the government and go a long way towards saving lives.

I remain unconvinced that there is a need for any new towing legislation or caravan insurance requirement to be introduced Surfer.
As Dustydog stated, a touring caravan is already covered by the towing vehicle insurance when it is being towed, personally I choose to insure my caravan against loss or damage with a separate policy but I don't see the need for this to be made compulsory, it is purely a matter of choice and up to the individual.

My caravan insurance policy (C&CC Clubcare new for old) states that any accident resulting in damage which happens whilst the caravan is being towed is not covered by that policy and claims must be made against my motor vehicle insurance policy.
I receive a discount from my caravan insurance for regular servicing but I wouldn't want the insurers to dictate to me when and where my caravan has to be serviced and I definitely wouldn't want my caravan insurance premium to be more expensive.

If I decided to take a C&CC towing course I'd receive a small premium discount but as an ex HGV driver who drove articulated vehicles for many years I really don't see the need.
VOSA roadside checks are designed to weed out dangerously unroadworthy caravans,
and there will be more of them as time goes by.

I'd much rather
that government funding went towards more police patrols which would
deter ALL dangerous drivers, ALL unroadworthy and uninsured vehicles and ALL drivers under the influence of drugs or alcohol, why should a predomiantly safe and law abiding section of road users be targetted?
Legislation already exists which compel those who passed their driving test after 1/1/1997 to undertake furthertraining to pass their B+E licence if they wish to tow with a combined weight of over 3500kg.
If caravanners caused carnage on the highways and byways of Britain I'd agree that new towing legislation should be introduced but clearly this is not the case.
The Dept of Transport accepts that towing vehicles are involved in fewer road traffic incidents involving injury or death than other group of road users.
The figure quoted is around 1% of the total and this includes r.t. incidents not involving death or injury and it also includes heavy goods vehicles, vehicles over 3500kg as well as vehicles towing touring caravans.

There is no evidence to suggest that MOT testing for caravans or more stringent towing tests would save lives, given that there are so few deaths due to towing rti's anyway.
All that it would do would be to render touring caravans too expensive a hobby for the majority of hard pressed families, and to make it more difficult for the British caravan industry to prosper so British jobs would be lost and the UK tourist industry would also be adverseley affected resulting in the loss of yet more jobs.

More people would claim benefits and there would be a loss of income tax revenue and NI contributions, so meddlesome EU proposals designed to bring those with poorer road safety records than our own into line with us would once again cost the British tax payer more money.

I think that government raises more than enough revenue through fuel
excise duty, VAT on fuel (and on the excise duty levied on fuel, a tax
on a tax
smiley-yell.gif
),
VAT on sky high insurance premiums, congestion charges and road fund
licences without being allowed to get their grubby mitts on even more of
our money, and so any further legislation which would make caravanning
even more expensive than it already is should be fierceley resisted.

I completely agree with this. In actual fact I don't think any Government will be happy untill all working people get their pay on a Friday and give it staight them.

Les
 
Jan 31, 2011
316
0
0
Visit site
I heard some thing on the radio today, that the government are thinking about a 2 tier road tax system, whereby if you use the motorway system you pay more for your road tax to pay for the maintenance of the motorways.
smiley-yell.gif

This would be endorsed by the use of A.N.P.R (automatic number plate reader) cameras along the motorway network.
If that was the case most would stop using the motorways & use the old trunk roads causing gridlock in the towns & villages along the A38 all the way down to Cornwall in the summer
 
Apr 7, 2008
4,909
3
0
Visit site
Willi-Wonti said:
I heard some thing on the radio today, that the government are thinking about a 2 tier road tax system, whereby if you use the motorway system you pay more for your road tax to pay for the maintenance of the motorways.
smiley-yell.gif

This would be endorsed by the use of A.N.P.R (automatic number plate reader) cameras along the motorway network.
If that was the case most would stop using the motorways & use the old trunk roads causing gridlock in the towns & villages along the A38 all the way down to Cornwall in the summer

Do you mean this ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20122355
 
May 7, 2012
8,567
1,795
30,935
Visit site
Sproket said:
Willi-Wonti said:
I heard some thing on the radio today, that the government are thinking about a 2 tier road tax system, whereby if you use the motorway system you pay more for your road tax to pay for the maintenance of the motorways.
smiley-yell.gif

This would be endorsed by the use of A.N.P.R (automatic number plate reader) cameras along the motorway network.
If that was the case most would stop using the motorways & use the old trunk roads causing gridlock in the towns & villages along the A38 all the way down to Cornwall in the summer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20122355

This happens in France, in fact at times it seems some French drivers spend more on fuel sitting in jams than they would have spent on tolls.
The French death rate is also twice ours although it is not clear if they are worse drivers or using the more dangerous side roads causes it or both. My feeling is a bit off both.
 
Jul 31, 2009
482
0
0
Visit site
Raywood said:
This happens in France, in fact at times it seems some French drivers spend more on fuel sitting in jams than they would have spent on tolls.
IME, the French, having grown up with toll roads don't think twice about using them, they look on the tolls as the road tax they don't otherwise pay.
It could be said that that it happens in the UK with the M6 & the M6(toll)

The French death rate is also twice ours although it is not clear if they are worse drivers or using the more dangerous side roads causes it or both. My feeling is a bit off both.
It's mainly because they drive drunk, something the silly Sarky law about having to carry a breathalyser in the car was meant to address.
 

TRENDING THREADS