Used EVs

[Dustydog]

Read an interesting article . It is possible to buy a five year old Kia Niro EV thousands cheaper than its petrol /diesel sibling. And it comes with the Kia 7 year or 100,000 mile warranty. No good for a tugger but a possible for someone who needs a reasonable range but mainly local to medium run around. The article went to say the downside is the ever increasing EV insurance cost and the replacement batteries cost. BUT VW EV batteries are holding their own with remarkable minimal deterioration. A not to buy is the Vauxhall Mokka, flawed. Damage tomt( batteries seems to be the stumbling block. So why not mount them somewhere where a minor crunch won’t damage them.: We had a similar thing decades ago about petrol tank location and crash ability.
Just a thought 😉

 

[otherclive]

The Niro is an excellent car and could make someone a useful, reliable and economical transport.
The EV market is changing and used prices are coming down I read that in the last 12 months the used price of a Jaguar I pace (electric) cf a used Jaguar F Pace ICE has reversed and the F Pace now has the stronger residual price. The journalist put this down to amongst other things the increased insurance costs for the electric car. This completely reversed the position 12 months ago. Tesla owners aren’t too pleased at the reductions in the new car price.

I posted a picture of a Kia EV 6 originally priced at £44795, reduced to £35000 then a month later reduced to £33000. That's mega depreciation by any standards.

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[RogerL]

Read an interesting article . It is possible to buy a five year old Kia Niro EV thousands cheaper than its petrol /diesel sibling. And it comes with the Kia 7 year or 100,000 mile warranty. No good for a tugger but a possible for someone who needs a reasonable range but mainly local to medium run around. The article went to say the downside is the ever increasing EV insurance cost and the replacement batteries cost. BUT VW EV batteries are holding their own with remarkable minimal deterioration. A not to buy is the Vauxhall Mokka, flawed. Damage tomt( batteries seems to be the stumbling block. So why not mount them somewhere where a minor crunch won’t damage them.: We had a similar thing decades ago about petrol tank location and crash ability.
Just a thought 😉

The Vauxhall Mokka shares it's platform with the Corsa, the Citroen C4, Peugeot 208 and 2008 so presumably all are at risk of accident damage.

 

[Buckman]

For many people even if they wanted an EV they cannot charge it at home and enjoy lower rates.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Maybe this is a sign of things to come for EV owners ....

My daughter lives in New Zealand and has an EV car. The government have just introduced a Road User Charge for EV cars (pay per mile). The reason is that the goverment is losing money from lower fuel sales which includes fuel duty.

Only a matter of time before this spreads

 

[otherclive]

Maybe this is a sign of things to come for EV owners ....

My daughter lives in New Zealand and has an EV car. The government have just introduced a Road User Charge for EV cars (pay per mile). The reason is that the goverment is losing money from lower fuel sales which includes fuel duty.

Only a matter of time before this spreads

I was surprised how long it took HMG to twig that revenue was falling as even before electric vehicles started to appear in any numbers lots of small cars were zero or £20 VED and merely sipped fuel so even fuel tax take was reduced. But they still used the roads but I guess the drive for lower emissions took precednce. But that’s changing now with what is a convoluted system of taxation. .

 

[RogerL]

Maybe this is a sign of things to come for EV owners ....

My daughter lives in New Zealand and has an EV car. The government have just introduced a Road User Charge for EV cars (pay per mile). The reason is that the goverment is losing money from lower fuel sales which includes fuel duty.

Only a matter of time before this spreads

How is the mileage being calculated/monitored?

 

[trevormonty]

Maybe this is a sign of things to come for EV owners ....

My daughter lives in New Zealand and has an EV car. The government have just introduced a Road User Charge for EV cars (pay per mile). The reason is that the goverment is losing money from lower fuel sales which includes fuel duty.

Only a matter of time before this spreads

The RUC goes towards road maintenance, built into petrol price. There isn't any on diesel fuel so all diesel vehicles have to pay RUC separately typically a few cents per km, heavier vehicles pay more. EVs were original exempt to encourage uptake, now they have to pay towards wear and tear of roads like all other motor vehicles. EVs actually do more wear and tear than their equivalent ICE as they are few 100kgs heavier. Still lot lighter than the average diesel Ranger or Hilux ute which are everywhere and doing their bit towards climate change.
EV rate is 7.6c km. PHEV 5.3c km cheaper because they also use petrol some times
Poor PHEV owners are going pay twice if they do lot of open road driving as need to use lot more petrol.

Hybrid is now about same cost to run as EV. 4.5L/100km x $2.75litre= 12.38c km. EV 7.6c RUC + 5c electricity (25c unit x 0.2)= 12.6. If charging from charge stations then more like 20-25c km.
Hybrid has more service costs but cheaper buy and lot more range given only takes few minutes to refuel. Also better tow vehicles. Hybrid batteries lot cheaper to replace than EVs, also degradation of hybrid battery doesn't make much difference to vehicle use, economy may suffer slightly but you can still do long trips without having to refuel every 100-200kms unlike old EVs.

 

[trevormonty]

How is the mileage being calculated/monitored?

Buy few 1000kms at time of RUC and place sticker on your windscreen to show your've paid upto Xkms. Not sure how they monitor it outside Warrant Of Fitness (WOF) which is done yearly by garage at which stage speedo is read and recorded. Disconnecting speedo is good way to reduce the RUC costs.

 

[RogerL]

Buy few 1000kms at time of RUC and place sticker on your windscreen to show your've paid upto Xkms. Not sure how they monitor it outside Warrant Of Fitness (WOF) which is done yearly by garage at which stage speedo is read and recorded. Disconnecting speedo is good way to reduce the RUC costs.

If that were adopted in the UK, even more car mileages would get clocked - it's apparently not difficult to change the displayed odometer reading but many manufacturers also store it in several places in the various electronic control units.

 

[Buckman]

I was surprised how long it took HMG to twig that revenue was falling as even before electric vehicles started to appear in any numbers lots of small cars were zero or £20 VED and merely sipped fuel so even fuel tax take was reduced. But they still used the roads but I guess the drive for lower emissions took precednce. But that’s changing now with what is a convoluted system of taxation. .

A lot of the charges made on the motorist i.e. fuel duty, VAT on fuel. VED etc it seems has been used to fund other departments and not used to improve the roads or even public transport.

 

[otherclive]

A lot of the charges made on the motorist i.e. fuel duty, VAT on fuel. VED etc it seems has been used to fund other departments and not used to improve the roads or even public transport.

It’s been like that for many years whereby the income generated by motorists hasn’t all been used for roads etc. it all goes into the Exchequer’s big pot to be reallocated along with all the other taxes in the pot. But if it goes to fund the NHS, social care, schools etc motorists still gain.

 

[RogerL]

It’s been like that for many years whereby the income generated by motorists hasn’t all been used for roads etc. it all goes into the Exchequer’s big pot to be reallocated along with all the other taxes in the pot. But if it goes to fund the NHS, social care, schools etc motorists still gain.

The Road Fund Licence was only used for roads for a few short years, from 1920 to 1936 - since then it's just gone into the general pot from which everything is taken.

 

[trevormonty]

As boating would be nice see RUC from fuel burnt on water go to boat ramps or coast guard not into governments consolidation fund. At least NZ volunteer coast guard receives some money from government but I doubt it is all boating RUC revenue.

 

[ProfJohnL]

... EVs actually do more wear and tear than their equivalent ICE as they are few 100kgs heavier. Still lot lighter than the average diesel Ranger or Hilux ute which are everywhere and doing their bit towards climate change...

Whilst it is true that EV are heavier than their ICE equivalent, its a myth they do significantly more damage to the roads. In fact ICE probably do more damage by the particulates and gasses they emit, the oil they drop which chemically affect the road surfaces.

In the UK over whelminghly most damage is still caused by HGV's by weight and tyre scrub.

As boating would be nice see RUC from fuel burnt on water go to boat ramps or coast guard not into governments consolidation fund. At least NZ volunteer coast guard receives some money from government but I doubt it is all boating RUC revenue.

Why has boating come into the discussion? RUC according to an earlier post is Road user charge - the key word being Road.

The UK governments uses the exchequer principle where all funds collected as taxes or excise are property of the Exchequer, and spending departments have to bid for funds. If taxes collected from a particular activity had to be spent on that activity, how would that apply to smoking?

 

[RogerL]

If taxes collected from a particular activity had to be spent on that activity, how would that apply to smoking?

Funding medical treatment for smoking-related diseases

 

[Tobes]

My daughter is about to start work with a roughly 70 mile round trip commute, 5 days a week. She wants a new (to her) car to do this with, and was looking at a Seat Mii EV. But the market has moved again, and the Corsa E is now in her price range. For the Elite Nav model, she can have a petrol 1.2 for between £80 and £100 on PCP (5K deposit) or the electric version for about the same - all on a 70 plate with about 20K miles on the clock. Insurance costs are more or less the same (2,500 a year - she is a 1 year driver and not yet 19). But on her mileage (350 a week) she will be spending £40-£50 a week on fuel. The same journey on electric is going to cost £7 a week to charge. I.e. around £132 to £172 less per month. The fuel saving is going to pay for the monthly payment on the car - and then some.
If you can charge at home and have the right journey profile, I cant see any reason to choose and ICE over Electric?

 

[Buckman]

My daughter is about to start work with a roughly 70 mile round trip commute, 5 days a week. She wants a new (to her) car to do this with, and was looking at a Seat Mii EV. But the market has moved again, and the Corsa E is now in her price range. For the Elite Nav model, she can have a petrol 1.2 for between £80 and £100 on PCP (5K deposit) or the electric version for about the same - all on a 70 plate with about 20K miles on the clock. Insurance costs are more or less the same (2,500 a year - she is a 1 year driver and not yet 19). But on her mileage (350 a week) she will be spending £40-£50 a week on fuel. The same journey on electric is going to cost £7 a week to charge. I.e. around £132 to £172 less per month. The fuel saving is going to pay for the monthly payment on the car - and then some.
If you can charge at home and have the right journey profile, I cant see any reason to choose and ICE over Electric?

Have a look in the latest CAMC magazine as there are some good leasing bargains. Although you cannot log in via the CAMC to get the discount, in the meantime you can check the deposits and monthly amount by going direct to the leasing site. They do used vehicles on PCP. Worth a look.

 

[RogerL]

If you can charge at home and have the right journey profile, I cant see any reason to choose an ICE over Electric?

That's been the case for a while now - it's having the wrong journey profile that stops many people.

 

[otherclive]

My daughter is about to start work with a roughly 70 mile round trip commute, 5 days a week. She wants a new (to her) car to do this with, and was looking at a Seat Mii EV. But the market has moved again, and the Corsa E is now in her price range. For the Elite Nav model, she can have a petrol 1.2 for between £80 and £100 on PCP (5K deposit) or the electric version for about the same - all on a 70 plate with about 20K miles on the clock. Insurance costs are more or less the same (2,500 a year - she is a 1 year driver and not yet 19). But on her mileage (350 a week) she will be spending £40-£50 a week on fuel. The same journey on electric is going to cost £7 a week to charge. I.e. around £132 to £172 less per month. The fuel saving is going to pay for the monthly payment on the car - and then some.
If you can charge at home and have the right journey profile, I cant see any reason to choose and ICE over Electric?

My daughter will have to make a choice by the end of this year as her three year NHS lease car comes to an end. At present she has a Corolla SC hybrid which has served her very well, and I've been trying to convince her that full EV could be the best option when it comes to choosing a new lease car. But she feels quite strongly that it needs an ICE up front for range. Yet she always parks overnight at home and her daily usage is comfortably within the range of Corolla/Corsa sized models. Our grandson has a Tesla Model Y AWD and BMW five series PHEV, and he is also trying to persuade her to go full EV. He's off holiday to Scotland;and next week and no prizes for guessing which car he will be taking? Work in progress I guess.

 

[Dustydog]

My daughter is about to start work with a roughly 70 mile round trip commute, 5 days a week. She wants a new (to her) car to do this with, and was looking at a Seat Mii EV. But the market has moved again, and the Corsa E is now in her price range. For the Elite Nav model, she can have a petrol 1.2 for between £80 and £100 on PCP (5K deposit) or the electric version for about the same - all on a 70 plate with about 20K miles on the clock. Insurance costs are more or less the same (2,500 a year - she is a 1 year driver and not yet 19). But on her mileage (350 a week) she will be spending £40-£50 a week on fuel. The same journey on electric is going to cost £7 a week to charge. I.e. around £132 to £172 less per month. The fuel saving is going to pay for the monthly payment on the car - and then some.
If you can charge at home and have the right journey profile, I cant see any reason to choose and ICE over Electric?

That’s one of the points made by the author of the article I read for my OP. My son has just changed his Vauxhall Vivaro EV for a Kia EV6. 7 years or 100 k warranty including batteries must set the EV scene. As I said the Vauxhall EV platform was a Don‘t buy. Kia and VW came tops for reliability, range and battery deterioration.

 

[otherclive]

That’s quite a radical change to go from a van to a coupe car.

 

[Dustydog]

That’s quite a radical change to go from a van to a coupe car.

Radical change of internal job

 

[otherclive]

Radical change of internal job

I was quite looking forward to hear how the electric van fared on his daily grind! Nice swop though.

 

[Tobes]

That’s quite a radical change to go from a van to a coupe car.

The EV6 is more of an SUV/Estate than a coupe. You may be thinking of the Hyundai Ioniq 6? But radical, none the less...