Motorway 60mph restrictions to be scrapped

[Dustydog]

The 60mph speed restrictions on the M1 and M6 will be removed after National Highways admitted that air pollutionwould “ultimately be solved at the tailpipe”
This relates to “experiments “ around Rotherham, West Midlands and Manchester ,
Motorways.
The Jury is out and no one really knows did it reduce NO2 and other pollutants.
Most of my town is 20 mph.. According to the cars on board computer my mpg at 20 is worse than 60 or 70. The engine is in lower gear so more fuel being burnt?
I wonder how much this experiment cost?

 

[Buckman]

The 60mph speed restrictions on the M1 and M6 will be removed after National Highways admitted that air pollutionwould “ultimately be solved at the tailpipe”
This relates to “experiments “ around Rotherham, West Midlands and Manchester ,
Motorways.
The Jury is out and no one really knows did it reduce NO2 and other pollutants.
Most of my town is 20 mph.. According to the cars on board computer my mpg at 20 is worse than 60 or 70. The engine is in lower gear so more fuel being burnt?
I wonder how much this experiment cost?

Drakeford probably suggested it!

 

[RogerL]

It seems that air quality has improved but they can't tell if it's due to the reduced speed limit or due to the increased proportion of EVs, hybrids and more up-to-date vehicles - in other words, as a scientific experiment it was doomed to failure from the start.

 

[ProfJohnL]

In terms of the cost of 60mph signs cost, its hardly dented the government coffers, but the cost to drivers is more difficult to establish. I fairly regularly have to use the 60mph zone inflicted at the top of the M5, and I've lost count of the numbers of drivers who see to totally ignore the restriction. The average speed Safety cameras don't seem to deter them.

 

[Dustydog]

and I've lost count of the numbers of drivers who see to totally ignore the restriction. The average speed Safety cameras don't seem to deter them.

I hear a rumour the Police turn a blind eye to 60 +10%+2mph before clocking you🤔Are the average speed cameras similarly “calibrated”?
I have noticed most people observe the ASC on road works so parts of the system work, maybe.

 

[RogerL]

I hear a rumour the Police turn a blind eye to 60 +10%+2mph before clocking you🤔Are the average speed cameras similarly “calibrated”?
I have noticed most people observe the ASC on road works so parts of the system work, maybe.

AFAIK the average speed cameras are similarly calibrated as I've never been caught by them !

I work on the basis that posted speed +10% +1mph is taking a chance as posted speed +10% + 2mph is where they start enforcement - so I keep just under the 10%.

 

[otherclive]

My satnav monitors my speed under ASC sections and shows the average speed in green if under or at the limit and Red if over the limit. I generally try and stay at the applicable limit. Boring I know.

 

[Beardy]

I'm getting to the stage where I really can't be bothered with the stress of driving at the speed limit. I find it far more relaxing to sit at 65 in the left hand lane and nudge up to 70 to overtake when I need to. I'm happy to sit in the queue of lorries doing 56 when towing. If it adds an extra 10 minutes to a 60 mile journey does it really matter.

 

[Woodentop]

The ones to watch out for are the Hadex6. These are the two orange boxes mounted on a shelf on the outside of a gantry leg about half way up. The gantry will probably have single lane Gatsos on it set st 70mph nominally, but the Hadex6 can read six lanes of plates at 100mph in one go.
The average speed units? If you drive on a section with them of say five posts, you will be lucky if two are working. They don't measure you speed just your plate, their lat and long, and the GPS time that you were recorded. The next unit then reads you and timestamps in the same way, and the monitoring computer works out the average speed.

 

[Mr Plodd]

A far easier, and less stressful solution is to simply comply with any speed limit!

Having said that I doo feel that Drakeford and Khan's fixation on a 20 limit has, shall we say, "dubious" benefits overall.

 

[trevormonty]

I'm getting to the stage where I really can't be bothered with the stress of driving at the speed limit. I find it far more relaxing to sit at 65 in the left hand lane and nudge up to 70 to overtake when I need to. I'm happy to sit in the queue of lorries doing 56 when towing. If it adds an extra 10 minutes to a 60 mile journey does it really matter.

There are considerable fuel savings when towing to be had by reducing your speed below 70mph. Whatever time you save by going faster can quite often be lost to extra fuel stops.

On holiday so what's the hurry, in saying that make sure you don't aquire a queue of angry drivers behind you on single line roads.

 

[Dustydog]

There are considerable fuel savings when towing to be had by reducing your speed below 70mph. Whatever time you save by going faster can quite often be lost to extra fuel stops.

🙀🙀Surely not towing at 70😁😁

 

[RogerL]

🙀🙀Surely not towing at 70😁😁

It tends to be only in Europe that we tow lightweight caravans at 60/62 mph - in USA and Australia they'll happily tow 3,500 kg caravans at 80 mph - same as the big trucks!

But they do demand much higher noseweight limits, more like 250-350 kg, ie 10%.

 

[Mr Plodd]

It tends to be only in Europe that we tow lightweight caravans at 60/62 mph - in USA and Australia they'll happily tow 3,500 kg caravans at 80 mph - same as the big trucks!

But they do demand much higher noseweight limits, more like 250-350 kg, ie 10%.

And their cars or SUV's are simply monstrous!

 

[Dustydog]

It tends to be only in Europe that we tow lightweight caravans at 60/62 mph - in USA and Australia they'll happily tow 3,500 kg caravans at 80 mph - same as the big trucks!

But they do demand much higher noseweight limits, more like 250-350 kg, ie 10%.

The fuel burn must be massive

 

[Mr Plodd]

The fuel burn must be massive

Fuel in the states is vastly cheaper than the UK.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I hear a rumour the Police turn a blind eye to 60 +10%+2mph before clocking you🤔Are the average speed cameras similarly “calibrated”?
I have noticed most people observe the ASC on road works so parts of the system work, maybe.

There is no legal blanket latitude given to speeding. In theory the police could prosecute for any excursion above the prevailing speed limit, in most cases they don't becasue of the technical difficulties of proving the measurement taken by cameras and hand held radar is accurate. To avoid the cost of having to fight appeals based on measurement errors, the Association of Chief Police Officers has given advice to police forces to reduce the failed prosecutions by setting their thresholds of speeding higher than the law actually states.

There is legally no reason why they couldn't reduce their thresholds closer to the legal limits if measurement uncertainty can be reduced.

 

[RogerL]

And their cars or SUV's are simply monstrous!

Yes, they do question how European SUVs like the VW Touareg can pull 3,500 kg but they do seem to perform very well according to user forums.

 

[Buckman]

There are considerable fuel savings when towing to be had by reducing your speed below 70mph. Whatever time you save by going faster can quite often be lost to extra fuel stops.

On holiday so what's the hurry, in saying that make sure you don't aquire a queue of angry drivers behind you on single line roads.

When towing the CC is set at about 58mph. If lower and using CC I find that the car is changing gear more often. However not using CC when towing is probably the most economical way to travel.

 

[Beardy]

However not using CC when towing is probably the most economical way to travel.

I think that depends on driving conditions and how smoothly you drive. Serious 'hypermilers' don't use cruise control, they allow the car to reduce speed on inclines and increase on declines. They also accellerate more gently than your average cruise control system does. I suspect that for us mere mortals cruise control is more efficient on motorways and good A roads as it's far more capable of maintaining a constant speed than most drivers are (oscillating around a set point is less efficient than maintaining the set point with a constant load), but less efficient on twisty or undulating roads - I would expect CC systems to have been optimised for a car with an average load, towing an extra 70-85% load would take it outside optimum acceleration and deceleration parameters. Where as you or I would accept that it's going to take longer than normal to accellerate fro 30 to 50 because of the additional load, the CC system would do it's upmost to accellerate to 50 in the time it normally takes, so put the throttle down further than we would.

I have no evidence to support the theories above so reserve the right to be completely incorrect.

 

[Buckman]

If on a fairly level stretch of road an see a hill approaching, you accelerate gently so that there is no gear change. The result is you get higher up the hill without the car changing down. On the decline all the car to freewheel down the hill, but never ever select neutral to coast down a hill whether manual or auto.

When approaching an intersection where you may need to slow down or even stop, anticipate this by lifting foot off accelerator and freewheeling to the intersection.

There are loads of scenarios where driving correctly can save you using more fuel than necessary and obviously money however that takes all the fun out of driving. LOL!

 

[Raywood]

The problem with measuring air pollution drops is that the mix of car engines is constantly changing and a drop in one area is useless in isolation. If records where produced for other motorways to see if they have dropped it may be possible to see if it worked but not otherwise.
60 should provide a better fuel consumption in theory than 70 although other factors do come into play including gearing.

 

[otherclive]

I think that depends on driving conditions and how smoothly you drive. Serious 'hypermilers' don't use cruise control, they allow the car to reduce speed on inclines and increase on declines. They also accellerate more gently than your average cruise control system does. I suspect that for us mere mortals cruise control is more efficient on motorways and good A roads as it's far more capable of maintaining a constant speed than most drivers are (oscillating around a set point is less efficient than maintaining the set point with a constant load), but less efficient on twisty or undulating roads - I would expect CC systems to have been optimised for a car with an average load, towing an extra 70-85% load would take it outside optimum acceleration and deceleration parameters. Where as you or I would accept that it's going to take longer than normal to accellerate fro 30 to 50 because of the additional load, the CC system would do it's upmost to accellerate to 50 in the time it normally takes, so put the throttle down further than we would.

I have no evidence to support the theories above so reserve the right to be completely incorrect.

First time I used CC was on an automatic Avis Chrysler K car in the US. Was great until I approached a bend and very surprised how well the Chrysler went around the bend with tyres squealing . I’d totally forgot to brake for the bend.

 

[Beardy]

When approaching an intersection where you may need to slow down or even stop, anticipate this by lifting foot off accelerator and freewheeling to the intersection.

In a previous job I had a 20 mile commute to and from work, all but the first and last mile was on good A roads. For the most part my speed was dictated by the flow of traffic, there was little I could do to make the journey more interesting or 'fun' so I began focusing on fuel economy by adopting the sort of driving you suggest. Leaving a longer gap between me and the vehicle infront so when they braked I didn't have to, and easing off the accellerator when approaching one of the 4 roundabouts on route so I could get round them without braking, the same when approaching speed limit changes. I memorised a series of marker points on the road so that I knew exactly when to ease off.

That was the only car I've ever owned that constantly exceeded the manufacturers stated fuel economy on every tank of fuel, but it was purely due to the roads I commuted (aided by my driving style).

 

[Raywood]

I did at one time have a Ford Orion, a company car. This did seem to be totally unable to do less than 40 mpg wherever you drove or at what speed. After one trip from Glasgow up to Aberdeen which is a mix of A roads and some motorway mainly in thick fog limiting speed by quite a bit I found the car had recorded over 60 mpg. This got me wondering just what it would do if I was a bit more careful in my driving style and yes I could drive most of the time with it often doing 50 mpg or more. Most people were astonished at the mileage but knowing the amount of fuel I put in I could double check the figures. It weas generally put down to me getting the car with the perfect tolerances on the various parts and certainly it's replacement never came near despite having he same engine.
Given we were paid a mileage allowance for fuel the car actually made a substantial profit for me covering my private mileage as well.
Driving style though does seriously affect your mileage, whatever car you drive.