Motorway Middle Lane Hogs!!!

[Lord Braykewynde]

Just as bad are the morons, who when meeting traffic at a standstill on the motorway, drive along the hard shoulder hoping to cut in further on. The jerks then clog the hard shoulder up stopping the emergency services attending the scene.

I find these kind of people repugnant with only themselves to think about, sod everyone else, and they usually drive company cars with their jacket hanging on the central door pillar.

To my mind they shouldn't be driving at all because they must be so stressed out to be on the verge of suffering a coronary and a danger to all others, not just from their diabolical driving.

 

[Colinn]

Anyone who drives on the four-lane M25, can tell you exactly what they do Angus. They sit in lane 2, 3, or 4 - never 1, God forbid!!

 

[kenneth_374315528]

I find the HGV drivers quite annoying at times also. I once had to follow two HGVs (one overtaking the other) for at least 6 miles. They were doing exactly 60 mph on the M6 but I could have passed them if I had gone into the outside lane. I know I was only supposed to be doing max 60 But.....

 

[ScouseIan]

There is undertaking and undertaking.

Where somebody hogs the middle lane I think nothing of just drifting by in lane 1.

But, how many times have you seen people from lane 3 in fast busy traffic go across to lane 2 or even 1, speed up and then 'push' back in further up the motorway. And this is at 70, 80 or even 90 mph. Now thats not right and they should be losing their license for driving like that.

Ian

 

[Damian]

And the difference is?

 

[ScouseIan]

Ah

You have won.

Because the law doesn't distinguish between the two examples then they must be the same, right?

Now if you really can't see any difference between the two I'm not going to convince you I think. Leave the laws out of the equation and just consider it for a moment. Undertaking as described in the first instance is actually not illegal in some countries. But in the second example its just dangerous in whatever country you are in.

Lets not be blinkered by what the law says in forming our opinions of what is dangerous. We all know that our laws can very often be an ass.

My point was that there is indeed a difference even if the laws of the land don't recognise that.

Anybody agree?

 

[Phil_374364837]

You really have not lived if you think motorways are difficult to drive on!!!We live up in the Highlands on the A82 and during the Silly season we have to endure hundreds of motorists with no rear view mirrors or watching their bloody satnav so closely they are not aware of the queue of 90 cars,lorries and other vehicles stuck behind them.There are 2 overtaking spots near Inverness and what do the Police do in all of their apparent wisdom?Put speed cameras on that particular bit of road.Sorry if this seems a bit of a rant but its a long time coming!!

 

[Damian]

ERMM,,,,,,,,,,leave the laws out of it.hmmmm an interesting defence i do not think!

 

[BrianStAlbans]

268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

So if there is a lot of traffic and you don't change lanes you can undertake

Sorted ;O)

 

[ScouseIan]

Yes, exactly, leave the laws out of it.

Given a situation on the road, I'm asking you whether you can regard a particular action as being dangerous. Nothing to do with being illegal or not. This is common sense. If something is dangerous in country A then its also dangerous in country B, irrespective of whatever the law actually says.

BTW, don't misunderstand me here. I'm not suggesting we should all go out on the road and break any law that we don't agree with.

As another example, its not illegal to drive past your local school at 30 mph on a school day, in the wet, parked cars, at ten to 9. But we know instinctively this is dangerous so we don't do it.

Another couple of examples.

What about using a mobile phone at the wheel. Straight away, you are thinking wrong, wrong, wrong. So, you are in a traffic jam. Doing zero mph. Gear is in neutral. Not moved for 10 mins. Is it 'dangerous' to call and speak to someone? I suggest not, but thats not to say its legal and I bet some people have been prosecuted for it.

Eating an apple in the car. People are being prosecuted for it. But not for smoking. The car manufactures one could argue are actively encouraging smoking whilst driving by having cigarette lighters conveniently located.

Use your judgement here and don't just quote a law that somebody else has decided on. What do YOU think?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Dangerous driving is unacceptable in any circumstance.

In the UK it is illegal to pass a moving vehicle on its nearside, and so it can be described as a dangerous manoeuvre.

It is wholly irresponsible for any one to undertake, and even more so to encourage others to act illegally by advocating it as an acceptable action on UK roads.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

In the UK it is illegal to pass a moving vehicle on its nearside, and so it can be described as a dangerous manoeuvre

As I posted the highway code says that there are times when you can.

In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

Note it doesn't mention an actual speed.

 

[ColinA]

ok we'll all just decide which laws we should obey then, ignore the rest and the world be be a better place,

 

[ScouseIan]

Hi John L

"It is wholly irresponsible for any one to undertake, and even more so to encourage others to act illegally by advocating it as an acceptable action on UK roads."

But do you accept that its a safe and valid thing to do in the USA? Because there, its standard practice.

I'm not really getting my point across very well here. I'm trying to point out there are differences between illegal and dangerous and as experienced drivers we should be able to recognise them (I'm not saying we should then override them).

 

[Damian]

Quote "But do you accept that its a safe and valid thing to do in the USA?"

Please, don't bring the USA into the argument.

Nothing that happens there is relevant to this country laws, and by their record so far in many instances , they are neither safe nor valid in many areas,,,,,lets just take Iraq for one,,but that is another topic.

 

[ScouseIan]

Hi Damien

Why can't I introduce the USA into the argument? It was just an example of a country where undertaking is standard practice. There are probably more anyway.

Why are you mentioning Iraq? Its got nothing to do with undertaking.

I didn't say or infer that anything that happens there is relevant to our laws. There you go again quoting laws. Please try and give me an answer without quoting the law as in 'its against the law'.

Do you believe that every law that we have in this country is actually superior (ie, better thought through, implemented, etc) than to all the laws in the USA (or other country for that matter).

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I can't believe that "adults" who drive are advocating that it should be alright to undertake by changing lanes. It is downright dangerous. The law says it's illegal but in spite of that common sense should prevail but apparently not in a few people. Why should I not be surprised seeing the carnage on our roads.

 

[Gumbo]

Damian someone stole your identity ???

 

[ScouseIan]

Hi Lordy

Couldn't agree more.

Anybody who changes lane to undertake should be getting mega points on their license.

Me personally, I was just asking people to consider that this is not the same as the very original first post on this topic. In that situation I would just drift past without speeding up or slowing down in lane 1.

 

[KnL]

Ian,

I fully agree with Damian that you cannot compare driving in America with driving in the UK.

In your own words, it is standard practice to undertake in the US (I will take your word for it as I've never been there) but I imagine that if their system allows that manouevre, then all their drivers will be used to it and will be fully aware of the implications and will anticipate it as a factor of everyday driving.

If you then bring that manouevre to the UK where it will not be anticipated by other road users and in fact (other than in the example given by Brian - St Albans) is actually illegal, it cannot be construed as anything but dangerous.

I've just returned from driving on the right in France, but when my lane at home is congested I couldn't argue that I should be allowed to drive in the oncoming lane if it is empty "because it's ok in France". Extreme example I know, but it shows that we cannot mix two differing driving styles without it becoming dangerous.

I do agree with you that the example of someone speeding in lane 3, then undertaking in lane 1 before moving back out is inherently more dangerous than you drifting up the inside lane without changing your speed, but that does not negate that your manouevre remains dangerous.

All it will take is for the lane hogger to wake up at that point and move across to lane 1, where they will collide with you and you will find that you are as much to blame for the collision as they are.

We all have differing opinions of what is dangerous, careless or normal driving and in the excellent example you used of slowing down when passing a school in the wet, you use the same judgement as most drivers use when they see the danger in undertaking, thus they don't do it.

As for Colin's original post on the lane hoggers and how to educate them, IMHO we need more Police patrols back on the major roads and either get rid of the Highways Agency Patrol Officers or at least give them powers to prosecute.

 

[Gumbo]

Highways Agency Patrol Officers or at least give them powers to prosecute

Now that is dangerous talk Ken. Non Police Officers enforcing the Law !!!!.wedge and thin end springs to mind

I lived in America for 3 years and drove everyday.Undertaking is carried out in a safe manner, and is second nature to American Drivers. Education is all that is needed, if you can't work out what is safe, and what is not safe you shouldn't be on a motorway. That's one of the reasons why we have two mirrors on our cars so you can see what's behind you, before you pull out or in. Not many people wore seat belts until it became law. First through education and then through the big stick everyone does it now. No reason why a change in driving habits can't be carried out the same way Education and then Stick.

 

[KnL]

Gumbo,

Good point and with hindsight I would prefer more traffic cops on the road rather than see HATO's get powers to prosecute, but it's no longer the thin edge of the wedge.

Policing on the cheap started with the fairly recently introduced Community Support Officers who in some areas now use powers that only sworn Constables used to have and nothing is beyond the realms of Government, extending the "Police Family" to encompass HATO's is not beyond them when it comes to wasting our money.

As far as undertaking is concerned, yes, if ever we were to adopt that practice, education would be required, but a change in legislation would be needed first....and unfortunately there are not enough cops left on the streets to enforce the "stick" part of your plan.

I'm just back from holiday and once again I drove the length of the country and never saw a single cop in either direction.

It doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi John L

"It is wholly irresponsible for any one to undertake, and even more so to encourage others to act illegally by advocating it as an acceptable action on UK roads."

But do you accept that its a safe and valid thing to do in the USA? Because there, its standard practice.

I'm not really getting my point across very well here. I'm trying to point out there are differences between illegal and dangerous and as experienced drivers we should be able to recognise them (I'm not saying we should then override them).

Hello Ian,

My reply was specifically aimed at reporting the situation in the UK, where it is not an accepted practice, and thus most drivers would not expect it to happen, thus for that reason it is dangerous.

In the USA it is an accepted practice, and thus drivers will expect it and drive accordingly.

 

[ProfJohnL]

In the UK it is illegal to pass a moving vehicle on its nearside, and so it can be described as a dangerous manoeuvre

As I posted the highway code says that there are times when you can.

In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

Note it doesn't mention an actual speed.

Point accepted Brian, thank you