motorway or not???

[al143]

Hello everyone and Merry Christmas,

My wife and I are thinking of travelling to northern Italy this year , ( having seen gino on tv touring Italy )
Two part question really,
First we have only been to Europe with our car & caravan for the last 2 years ,
so quite new to travelling through Europe
The first question is travelling on the motorways or none motorway? ??
People we spoke to on our travels seemed to drive none motorway saving going through tolls,
Is it possible to drive to northern Italy using none m,ways,
Also does it take a lot longer travelling?
Second part of my question,
When towing with my caravan ( is 23foot 4 berth )
My car Hyundai sant fa 2010 , i am having brake fade when going down steep hills,
I've tried mintex also ebc red pads,
Is there any brake pads anyone can recommend to rectify the problem

 

[Raywood]

I have not tried Italy but certainly in France you will find an alternative route to the motorways but they tend to be far slower and take at least twice as long. If the route takes you through a town then a short hop on the motorway may be worth it to avoid the traffic. You will however get access to cheaper fuel.
Given the makes of bake pads you have used it looks unlikely you will find any others seriously better. My only suggestion is far more use of the gears to slow you down and keep to keep the speed that way if possible.

 

[DaveA1]

Have never been to Italy so cannot comment on your first question.
The brake fade could/would be contaminated brake fluid or just old fluid that needs changing. Brake fluid adsorbs water through its life and needs replacing every so often .

 

[Thingy]

Spent a great deal of my life in Italy driving artics. The Italian Nationals are nowhere near as pleasant as the French ones, tend to be very poorly maintained for a start. We were always taught never to overnight alone in Italy on the Nationals, which should say something to you. There are two good routes into Italy, down through Austria or over Mont Blanc, a third route down through France and through the Frejus tunnel is also possible.

Really for Northern Italy I would do the Blanc. French Nationals if you like down as far as Bonneville or Annecy and then pick up the motorway up over the stilts and through the tunnel. Chamonix has a large car park in the centre that is shared by both motorhomes and trucks and is OK for an overnight stop. Much has been said about overnighting on the French Aires, but I have never had problems doing so. On the Italian side, the mororways have similar places to the Aires but much bigger. A general rule of thumb would be to say if they arent proper services, dont overnight on them. Depending on where you are heading for in Northern Italy, the motorways arent too bad though they will be a culture shock after the French Peage. In the region of Milan, the Tangenzialle is a match for the Paris Peripherique for being manic.

Italy though is great especially in the north around the lakes. The mozzies can be voracious though. As for the original question, I would personally pay the tolls, its worth it.

 

[al143]

Thanks Dave,
Really good answer not though of that one,
i will Definitely get the garage to change the brake fluid,
Thanks Alan.

 

[al143]

Thank you, ,
Thanks for the reply thingy,
A lot of good advice there, we will take it on board,
Went to lake Orta last year via Switzerland and know what you mean regarding the roads,
thanks Alan.

 

[Woodentop]

To the OP, do remember that if you travel on motorways in Switzerland or Austria you need a vignette for your car and a separate one for your caravan. The Swiss ones are annual but I believe the Austrian ones are available for shorter periods - 2 months springs to mind.

I would agree with the comment about going to Annecey and then through the tunnel but it is quite a climb and with a 23 footer you will need plenty of poke. An option is to use the free motorways through Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany, then through Austria and over the Brenner Pass which will bring you down into the Dolomites - a better way in if you are going to Lake Garda. Be aware however that you are limited to 80Kph in Germany.

 

[JonnyG]

you've already used at least part of the best route to Italy by going through Switzerland even after buying the vignette for switzerland for your car and caravan its still cheaper than using Mont blanc and the route is faster and shorter to northern Italy as well ,unless Aosta is on your list of place to go.. so the question has to be which route did you take to Switzerland? using a dunkirk or indeed calias crossing heading to Luxembourg then down to Metz avoids 250 miles of french tolls and of course you can get some cheap fuel too.. Metz to Strasbourg would be the only tolls about 30 Euros each way . of course you could avoid all these by going straight into Germany from Luxembourg and head down into Italy through Austria but then you still hit tolls the Brenner pass and the Austrian vignette which are slightly less than half the price of the swiss ones but you do have to pay the Brenner pass toll each way and its about 100 miles longer than the Swiss route to anywhere in Italy south of garda..Its all swings and roundabouts and all depends on where exactly in Italy you are going and what you want to see whilst there and indeed whilst you are travelling too..then there's how long you have. non motorway routes as i'm sure you are aware can be much much slower in the areas you plan to travel through. My preference is the luxembourg, metz, strassbourg, through Switzerland route , occasional i come back the Austrian way or vice versa last time i used a Superstrada in the north of Italy to get anywhere long distance about 140 miles a 3 hour journey took me 6! anyway whatever you decide enjoy..

 

[al143]

Brilliant, thanks for your reply , yes thanks we know about vignette as we went to Switzerland 2 years ago.
All the places you mentioned are new to my wife and I,
so i will look into your advice,
many thanks
Alan.

 

[al143]

Hi ,
Firstly thanks for your reply,
For got to say that we have 6weeks to play with ,
Some of the places you mentioned ie Luxembourg ,metz is the route we took a couple of years ago landing at calis travelling down through France onto Switzerland then over to lake Orta Italy,
We are looking at 6 weeks again this year so not too sure were abouts to go just like the look of northern Italy !
like I say we are new to caravaning in Europ .
Many thanks for the advice
Alan.

 

[JonnyG]

www.camping.it .. might come in handy if you find an area or place you'd like to visit then this site has nearly if not all the camping sites in Italy, big and small..

 

[chrisbee1]

My route to Tuscany a couple of years ago was France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria and via the Brenner pass. I did look at going via Switzerland but of course you need a vignette for the car and one for the caravan. These are 38.50 euro each in 2017 but they will also cover the return journey. Austria will cost you 8.90€ for a 10 day one, plus the same on the way back. You only need one for the car, not the caravan.

Although I would not encourage anyone to break the law, realistically just about everyone towing on the German autobahns drives at least 90kph, (the Dutch nearer 120kph) simply to avoid holding up trucks as there are long sections where they are not allowed to overtake. You wouldn't be doing anything for Anglo-German relations if you stuck to 80kph. I've been through cameras and followed by police cars towing at 90kph and never been stopped. Looking at the cheaper fuel costs in Luxembourg and Austria I found this way worked out the cheapest all motorway route.

 

[al143]

Hi chrisbee1,
Thanks for the info,
I have found a nice campsite on Lake como,
Probably head for that,
When I'm towing i always keep around the 63 mph which keeps me i front of the lorries ( hopefully )
We have not been through Germany so that could be one to go for, think we will need a few stop overs, got 6wks so plenty of time. Once again thank you. , Alan.

 

[al143]

Thanks for the link , good one. Alan.

 

[Grahamh]

We went several years ago now. Down through France and over the Mont Cenis pass.(don't like long tunnels) Was towing with a Mondeo then. Went up fine but coming down into Italy I nearly lost the brakes due to overheating. I had replaced the brakes before going but had forgotten that the van brakes on the overrun so using the gears makes no difference to the van brakes. Had to have them relined when I got home. There's a campsite at the top of the pass that is the most spectacular that I have ever been on, it was May and we were the only van on the site. I tried to use the non-motorway routes at first but the roads are so bad and the drivers so mad I soon changed to motorway routes. The Italian drivers are absolutely bonkers. We tended to find a site then bus or train in to the sites we wanted to see. Great trip tho, you will love it. Take your Acsi card if in low season.

 

[al143]

Hi Graham h,
That's what happened to my brakes trouble is I'm driving a auto ,so not that easy with the gears,
And know what you mean about Italian drivers, we went to lake orta 2yrs ago,
never come across drivers that sit so close to the back end of my car (wow so close ).
still looking into the brake issue ,
thanks for your reply. Alan

 

[Hutch]

Alan, on the brake fade I agree with Dave probably brake fluid problem rather than Brake pads, I changed my Front pads on my SF, for Standard Euro parts ones, (28 K Miles, ) prior to my last 6 week trip around France , approximately 2600 miles mostly on French paeges and about €300 and I had no Brake fade going over the central Massive areas.
We wern't planning to go over to Europe this year but a friend has just sent me next years Swiss Vignnete. So looks like we are going over again. And I have just replace my Sannef tolling Tag , for a new one , battery replacement time.

 

[al143]

Hiya Hutch,
Nice to hear from you again, you told me about satnav, good result.
About the brakes sounds more likely it's fluid, I've been abroad twice now both times with brand new pads fitted
and both times brake fade going down very steep hills,
So like dave says ,change fluid,
i will definitely get than sorted,
well done on the vignnete
I was thinking of one of those tags! May look into that,
many thanks Alan.

 

[JonnyG]

My route to Tuscany a couple of years ago was France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria and via the Brenner pass. I did look at going via Switzerland but of course you need a vignette for the car and one for the caravan. These are 38.50 euro each in 2017 but they will also cover the return journey. Austria will cost you 8.90€ for a 10 day one, plus the same on the way back. You only need one for the car, not the caravan.

Although I would not encourage anyone to break the law, realistically just about everyone towing on the German autobahns drives at least 90kph, (the Dutch nearer 120kph) simply to avoid holding up trucks as there are long sections where they are not allowed to overtake. You wouldn't be doing anything for Anglo-German relations if you stuck to 80kph. I've been through cameras and followed by police cars towing at 90kph and never been stopped. Looking at the cheaper fuel costs in Luxembourg and Austria I found this way worked out the cheapest all motorway route.

The Brenner pass has a separate toll of 8.5 euro's each way..

 

[chrisbee1]

My route to Tuscany a couple of years ago was France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Austria and via the Brenner pass. I did look at going via Switzerland but of course you need a vignette for the car and one for the caravan. These are 38.50 euro each in 2017 but they will also cover the return journey. Austria will cost you 8.90€ for a 10 day one, plus the same on the way back. You only need one for the car, not the caravan.

Although I would not encourage anyone to break the law, realistically just about everyone towing on the German autobahns drives at least 90kph, (the Dutch nearer 120kph) simply to avoid holding up trucks as there are long sections where they are not allowed to overtake. You wouldn't be doing anything for Anglo-German relations if you stuck to 80kph. I've been through cameras and followed by police cars towing at 90kph and never been stopped. Looking at the cheaper fuel costs in Luxembourg and Austria I found this way worked out the cheapest all motorway route.

The Brenner pass has a separate toll of 8.5 euro's each way..

Indeed, as you pointed out in #425728 albeit without mentioning the cost. However, I was just saying I thought the Austria route seemed the cheaper way to go when I looked at the costs. As you say, swings and roundabouts. Maybe the OP could go one way and return the other to see a bit more of Europe.

 

[DaveA1]

As I said earlier I've never towed in Europe so, what is a vignette ?
Is it some form of road tax ?

 

[al143]

Lots and lots of information to chew over,
Think I'm probably looking at going down through Luxembourg, Germany, and Austria, into northern Italy lombardai area. , not sure what pass that is ?
not been to any of those places before.
Thanks Alan.

 

[chrisbee1]

As I said earlier I've never towed in Europe so, what is a vignette ?
Is it some form of road tax ?

In a nutshell it's a sticker you purchase and display in your windscreen which allows you to drive on the motorways in the country of issue. Failure to display can lead to a heavy fine. Even with the sticker there are sometimes additional tolls on certain routes for tunnels, bridges etc.

 

[Grahamh]

They are good value in Germany but in Switzerland you need two, one for the car and one for the caravan. I found Germany a bit unsettling due to the speed of traffic on the motorways. I am used to watching out for coaches and prepared for the buffet as they pass but in Germany you get cars coming by at 120mph+ and the turbulence is quite bad.

 

[chrisbee1]

They are good value in Germany but in Switzerland you need two, one for the car and one for the caravan. I found Germany a bit unsettling due to the speed of traffic on the motorways. I am used to watching out for coaches and prepared for the buffet as they pass but in Germany you get cars coming by at 120mph+ and the turbulence is quite bad.

Indeed, especially as you don't need one.
I think you probably mean Austria.