MRO question

[CrewOVtwo]

My MTPLM is 1490 and MRO 1335 (Bailey Unicorn Cadiz).
Rather than make the trip to a weighbridge I'm going to attempt to weigh pretty much everything I put in the caravan.
My search button for the forum isn't working, so can someone tell me if I need to weigh cushions/ microwave/ bed mattress or are those included in the MTPLM?
I have a sneaky feeling we will be well within limits but I'd like to check, with some longer trips coming up.
Once again, thanks in advance 👍

 

[otherclive]

My MTPLM is 1490 and MRO 1335 (Bailey Unicorn Cadiz).
Rather than make the trip to a weighbridge I'm going to attempt to weigh pretty much everything I put in the caravan.
My search button for the forum isn't working, so can someone tell me if I need to weigh cushions/ microwave/ bed mattress or are those included in the MTPLM?
I have a sneaky feeling we will be well within limits but I'd like to check, with some longer trips coming up.
Once again, thanks in advance 👍

Items that came with the caravan from the makers are in MRO. Things like its step, EHU cable, document pack, external water pump, and one gas cylinder are normal in MRO. Carpets, mattresses are obviously in MRO not MTPLM. Microwave if part of the caravan as supplied by the maker is in MRO. Often your handbook specifies what’s in MRO. Battery is not normally in MRO. But I believe there may be exceptions for large caravan with powered levelling systems.

 

[CrewOVtwo]

Thanks. Glad you mentioned battery as that's hidden away in a slot in the floor and I would have forgotten about that - and it is very heavy 😲
Maybe I've not got as much to spare as I thought 🤔

 

[Mr Plodd]

Do NOT rely on the manufacturers quoted MRO
The ONLY way to be certain of your actual, rather than theoretical, weight is to use a weighbridge, be that when its completely empty, or when fully kitted up for your holiday. Anything else will be guesswork.

 

[JTQ]

I think unfortunately your logic is flawed right from assuming the MRO is any plated or quoted figure.
Quite some direct experience, albeit not with Bailey is that the actual MRO can be different to the stated figure, and sadly IME always the wrong way. The makers have tolerances, some even plus as well as minus.
I really feel you ought to accept that in your running state, you get it weighed.

Edit: I see Mr Plodd was there before me and he almost certainly would have knowledge of a lot more actual cases than I have.

 

[CrewOVtwo]

Weighbridge it is then. Thanks again 👍 👍

 

[Lutz]

I think unfortunately your logic is flawed right from assuming the MRO is any plated or quoted figure.
Quite some direct experience, albeit not with Bailey is that the actual MRO can be different to the stated figure, and sadly IME always the wrong way. The makers have tolerances, some even plus as well as minus.
I really feel you ought to accept that in your running state, you get it weighed.

Edit: I see Mr Plodd was there before me and he almost certainly would have knowledge of a lot more actual cases than I have.

To refer to an actual MRO is a contradiction in itself. It is either an MRO or an actual weight.

 

[Danddandy]

Weighbridge it is then. Thanks again 👍 👍

Just to add mud to the waters, I've weighed a couple of 'vans on a weighbridge and their accuracy was plus/minus 20kg. . So that could be a 40kg tolerance. On a medium/small caravan that could be 25% of your payload.. I may be overthinking this and I'd be happy to be corrected.

 

[JTQ]

To refer to an actual MRO is a contradiction in itself. It is either an MRO or an actual weight.

Okay but IMO that is here being overly pedantic.
I don't think the OP would have misunderstood the point being made, "the weight a van actually weighs in the condition that relates to its MRO, can be different to the value given as its MRO weight, on its plate".

Again IMO, the value to us the user of a quoted MRO is useless. In the final analysis all we need concern ourselves with is keeping its weight within the MTPLM in any state we tow it on the highway.

 

[otherclive]

Just to add mud to the waters, I've weighed a couple of 'vans on a weighbridge and their accuracy was plus/minus 20kg. . So that could be a 40kg tolerance. On a medium/small caravan that could be 25% of your payload.. I may be overthinking this and I'd be happy to be corrected.

What the alternative? It can never be an absolute and there’s bound to be some element of variation. But at least it’s better than doing nothing. I used two weighbridges to weigh one caravan. The first weighbridge which was a large public one showed the loaded caravan around 240 kg overweight. The second one in a lumber yard (5tonne) still showed the van to be 240kg heavier than I understood. Shock horror. But it towed beautifully and its tyres were still capable of accepting the overload.

 

[GUMPY]

Just to add mud to the waters, I've weighed a couple of 'vans on a weighbridge and their accuracy was plus/minus 20kg. . So that could be a 40kg tolerance. On a medium/small caravan that could be 25% of your payload.. I may be overthinking this and I'd be happy to be corrected.

It's possible but so long as I get a piece of paper that says the loaded van is below it's MTPLM I don't care what it's actual mass may or may not be.

 

[Hutch]

It's possible but so long as I get a piece of paper that says the loaded van is below it's MTPLM I don't care what it's actual mass may or may not be.

At least if you are pulled in for a weight check, you can show that you have been sensible enough to have had it checked.
I had mine weighed and it showed that I was 30 kg overhead stated MRO.
I know have a the Reich weighing scales, good for within 3 %.
Reich scales

 

[Lutz]

Forget the MIRO. Weigh the caravan if you need to know its unladen weight. It's the only sure way of knowing what it is.

 

[IanB1485]

I weighed my caravan on a weighbridge as we had a low allowable difference between the MRO and MTPLM and I listed all the things that were in the caravan such as two gas bottles (full) motor mover e.t.c then all the things that weren't in the caravan were weighed and put on a spreadsheet , even down to a container of baked bean tins THO insists on carrying (8kg) (anybody think we went on polar expeditions were there weren't any supermarkets). As a result I threw away the Alko underslung spare wheel carrier(13kg) as if you have the misfortune to suffer a flat then its the devils own job to extract the spare wheel. the spare is kept in the car (17kg) - leaving more room for tins of beans

 

[otherclive]

I weighed my caravan on a weighbridge as we had a low allowable difference between the MRO and MTPLM and I listed all the things that were in the caravan such as two gas bottles (full) motor mover e.t.c then all the things that weren't in the caravan were weighed and put on a spreadsheet , even down to a container of baked bean tins THO insists on carrying (8kg) (anybody think we went on polar expeditions were there weren't any supermarkets). As a result I threw away the Alko underslung spare wheel carrier(13kg) as if you have the misfortune to suffer a flat then its the devils own job to extract the spare wheel. the spare is kept in the car (17kg) - leaving more room for tins of beans

I had a spreadsheet on which details of everything in the caravan were displayed. Everything was weighed even allowance for fridge food etc. I could then prepare sub spreadsheets to cover various trips. IE Four weeks summer France, long weekend Winter etc. So before each trip I would create a spreadsheet from my library and go through the list of items deciding what would be taken, and whether it went into the caravan or car. It sounds complicated but it was quite easy to use and importantly it maintained discipline/control over weight growth. It was pretty accurate too as when I inadvertently overloaded a caravan by a substantial amount the two separate weighbridge outputs on vastly different weighbridge, one caravan at full load MTPLM, the other caravan in running order with battery, one Calorlite, movers but little else, the results confirmed my weighing of payload was pretty darned close to reality, and that I’d screwed up big time. 😱

 

[GUMPY]

Mine is simple, no spreadsheets or calculations, lots of weighbridge visits though.
Basic stuff that stays the same every trip (power cable, water containers, bedding, crockery, pans etc) goes in the van
Everything else (awning, clothes, kayak, beer, food etc) goes in the car
Result is that van is right on its weight limit, we just have enough spare to put cold stuff but no beer in the fridge.

 

[Mel]

I am going to get seriously told off here and I am ready to turn in my forum membership badge and hang my head in shame ( not)
But as well as a Bucket list there is another 2 word list that sounds very like Bucket; but I can say no more as I would have to Moderate myself.
Anyway this is a list of things that no longer stress you out, and for me weight of the caravan is one of them. Noseweight I measure but the rest of it, no.
Almost everything, food, booze, clothes and sundry equipment including awning go in the car. Fridge is empty. The van has minimal added equipment except a motor mover.
You will all tell me that it could still be overweight, and you may be right, I will let you know if I ever get stopped and the van weighed.
As far as overloading the axle is concerned, then even if I don’t overload the axle and it sags, the manufacturer will still say it is my fault. So it is lose, lose.
I am not encouraging anyone to be as blasé as me; I do load it responsibly and with stability and noseweight in mind.
I now submit to your judgement 😀
Mel

 

[otherclive]

I am going to get seriously told off here and I am ready to turn in my forum membership badge and hang my head in shame ( not)
But as well as a Bucket list there is another 2 word list that sounds very like Bucket; but I can say no more as I would have to Moderate myself.
Anyway this is a list of things that no longer stress you out, and for me weight of the caravan is one of them. Noseweight I measure but the rest of it, no.
Almost everything, food, booze, clothes and sundry equipment including awning go in the car. Fridge is empty. The van has minimal added equipment except a motor mover.
You will all tell me that it could still be overweight, and you may be right, I will let you know if I ever get stopped and the van weighed.
As far as overloading the axle is concerned, then even if I don’t overload the axle and it sags, the manufacturer will still say it is my fault. So it is lose, lose.
I am not encouraging anyone to be as blasé as me; I do load it responsibly and with stability and noseweight in mind.
I now submit to your judgement 😀
Mel

But you have some years of experience, a Newbie may not appreciate how rapidly payload can be used up and exceeded as items are put together in the caravan.

 

[CrewOVtwo]

In order to achieve my noseweight I have to have a good amount of 'stuff' well foreward of the axle, due to the weight of the spare wheel that is located towards the back of the van.
It tows like a dream and I can now 'eyeball' roughly what needs to go where in order to get it just about perfect before checking with the scales.
But it seems an odd conundrum that doing this could put me over the limit - although I am yet to visit the weighbridge....... So, given I would probably not exchange perfect towability for absolute legal compliance, what are the consequences if I get pulled?

 

[GUMPY]

So, given I would probably not exchange perfect towability for absolute legal compliance, what are the consequences if I get pulled?

I would think you would have to remove enough stuff from the van to get it below it's mtplm.
Hope you have enough room in the car for it.🫢

 

[CrewOVtwo]

Yes, it's a big enough car (Volvo xc60) and only 2 of us to worry about - so we could pretty much put everything in the car, but that would mean I couldn't tow the caravan safely (bailey Unicorn Cadiz).

Oven and gas bottle and fridge all over the axle by design. Heavy spare wheel at the back by design.
Just seems odd.

 

[JTQ]

But it seems an odd conundrum that doing this could put me over the limit - although I am yet to visit the weighbridge.

That's not at all "odd", though unacceptable to those who have had this hobby for decades, the van's generally are made with inadequate load carrying capacity to go "caravanning"! Unless, for a short weekend buying most meals out and those taken eaten off plastic.
In the deceit they don't even include a battery in the MRO, although even the internal lighting needs one.

If pulled and you take the "right" stance you might be allowed a bit of a margin, argue the toss will likely lose that. It has been suggested to me the margin could approach 5% of the maximum, which as a percentage of that payload is quite useful. Never tested this, been pulled over by the whipper in only to be waved through by the team actually doing the check, suspect we and the kit did not look the type they were after. Maybe it was simply coming up to lunch time?

 

[otherclive]

In order to achieve my noseweight I have to have a good amount of 'stuff' well foreward of the axle, due to the weight of the spare wheel that is located towards the back of the van.
It tows like a dream and I can now 'eyeball' roughly what needs to go where in order to get it just about perfect before checking with the scales.
But it seems an odd conundrum that doing this could put me over the limit - although I am yet to visit the weighbridge....... So, given I would probably not exchange perfect towability for absolute legal compliance, what are the consequences if I get pulled?

I was escorted by a police motorcyclist into a DoT weighbridge in Hampshire. The caravan and car were weighed, and given a good inspection for non weight items. I was within the legal limits so no further action. But the consequences are dependant on the scale of infringement. Things like max axle loading or tyres Load Index will influence a decision on what action would be required. A responsible owner should take the necessary steps to ensure compliance with the legal requirements, for their safety and that of others.

 

[Hutch]

I think that if your caravan is Stuffed to the limits in a very haphazardly way, you could be in for a hard time, where as if items inside the van are nicely stowed away and "look right" you might find the inspectors a bit more friendly.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Based on some of the replies so far, I fail to understand why anyone would contemplate knowingly exceeding any of the manufacturers stated limits yet alone any of the legal limits, it baffles me and concerns me. I suppose it must be the same mentality that thinks its ok to exceed the prevailing speed limits.

It is the responsibility of the driver of an outfit to ensure it is both legal and safe to drive on the UK's roads,

Infractions detected at an inspection will result in you being detained, and depending on the scale of the infraction, You may offered advice about loading, which you will be expected to implement before being allowed to continue the journey. Worse infringements may result in you being issued with a ticket, but you will only be allowed to continue your journey when the infringements have been resolved.
Or in the worst cases, you will be issued with a ticket, and the vehicle(s) may be impounded.

Contrary to popular belief, the weight limits set out in the law do not have any automatic allowance for tolerance. It is up to the driver to ensure their out fit keeps within the legal limits by being aware of the measuring equipment's stated tolerances and making allowance for them.

However the equipment and methods used for roadside inspections do have to allow for the tolerances established by their calibration and class of equipment. Like for speeding its up to the Chief constable to set policy on what degree of excess will trigger a ticket, and the Crown Prosecution service to decide if a prosecution will be pursued.

A ticket issued for offence of being overloaded must be supported by evidence of a weight check on calibrated equipment. But even if the vehicle is within its legal weight limits, if an authorised member of the inspection team believes the driver and outfit represents a danger to the driver or other road users, they can utilise unsafe or dangerous vehicle legislation.