MTPLM - crikey

[CrewOVtwo]

Well before finally getting round to heading off to the weighbridge next week, I thought I'd weigh the contents that we aim to take on our next trip.....

And with my best guess, we are 27 kg over the limit, with what I considered to be a fairly sparse load.

I'm genuinely shocked and wonder what on earth a family of four would do to manage staying legal (and safe).

We have a four birth van (Bailey Unicorn Cadiz) and there's just two of us. It seems implausible that you could take what was needed for a holiday if we had kids / grandkids with us.

The weighbridge will be most useful now I have a better idea of what is required but I hope this helps someone along the way, as it's certainly helped us.

Thanks to everyone who has helped get us to where we are now on our caravan journey. It is a splendid forum.

 

[otherclive]

Well before finally getting round to heading off to the weighbridge next week, I thought I'd weigh the contents that we aim to take on our next trip.....

And with my best guess, we are 27 kg over the limit, with what I considered to be a fairly sparse load.

I'm genuinely shocked and wonder what on earth a family of four would do to manage staying legal (and safe).

We have a four birth van (Bailey Unicorn Cadiz) and there's just two of us. It seems implausible that you could take what was needed for a holiday if we had kids / grandkids with us.

The weighbridge will be most useful now I have a better idea of what is required but I hope this helps someone along the way, as it's certainly helped us.

Thanks to everyone who has helped get us to where we are now on our caravan journey. It is a splendid forum.

That’s why some years ago I saw more and more retired couples with their new caravans and the car fitted with a roofbox. Some up scale UK vans had only 125kg payload. Battery and mover would have nearly taken 50% approx.

 

[GUMPY]

When we go away just about everything is in the Yeti, the car becomes in effect a van as we fold the rear seats up.
With a family of 4 we would need a Skoda Superb Estate to get a big enough boot.

 

[otherclive]

When we go away just about everything is in the Yeti, the car becomes in effect a van as we fold the rear seats up.
With a family of 4 we would need a Skoda Superb Estate to get a big enough boot.

A Superb vehicle if I may say so. Only car I’ve had that I’ve needed to really lean full stretch to reach the front of the boot. Plus at 6ft 4in I could sit in the rear seat with the drivers seat fully back and my knees didn’t touch the back of the drivers seat. Also the rear seat bases could be flipped up so heavy luggage could go in there, or the dogs. Sometimes both. Great cars.

 

[GUMPY]

A Superb vehicle if I may say so. Only car I’ve had that I’ve needed to really lean full stretch to reach the front of the boot. Plus at 6ft 4in I could sit in the rear seat with the drivers seat fully back and my knees didn’t touch the back of the drivers seat. Also the rear seat bases could be flipped up so heavy luggage could go in there, or the dogs. Sometimes both. Great cars.

I've never had one, but have had two Octavia vRs estates that were pretty large. They also manage huge milage my first one hit 250k by the time it left the family, the second is well over 100k and is in the possession of Stepson.

 

[otherclive]

I've never had one, but have had two Octavia vRs estates that were pretty large. They also manage huge milage my first one hit 250k by the time it left the family, the second is well over 100k and is in the possession of Stepson.

I can see why you like Skodas. My first one was an Estelle 105, not a tow car. 🤭

 

[Beachball]

When we go away just about everything is in the Yeti, the car becomes in effect a van as we fold the rear seats up.
With a family of 4 we would need a Skoda Superb Estate to get a big enough boot.

We also had a Yeti but ours was for only two and dogs , and like you we folded the rear seats but legroom was great for driving .

 

[GUMPY]

In the days before they expanded it used to be said of VAG cars that:

Volkswagen were for normal people
Audi were for people with more money than sense
Skoda were for people with more sense than money.

Now there are too many brands under that umbrella for that to work.

 

[GUMPY]

I can see why you like Skodas. My first one was an Estelle 105, not a tow car. 🤭

I always wanted a Rapide, a friend had one that was slightly modified and it would out handle a Ford Escort with ease.🫣

 

[CrewOVtwo]

Further to my post, after a bit of research that I perhaps should have done before, I've just gleaned that the spare wheel attached to the underside of my caravan, might not be included in the stuff Bailey consider as 'part of the caravan' - is this right?

 

[ProfJohnL]

There are no written regulations that determine what is and isn't included in the manufacturers basic kit, It should tell you in the manufacturers handbook.

 

[Dustydog]

The real problem starts when the caravan leaves the factory with “declared “ MRO.

The number of variables that get mentioned by a dealer would fill a book!

Taking a very pedantic view, get the caravan weighed at a weigh bridge exactly as it came from the factory , as described , fluids etc.

Always seems to me the base point is very unclear model to model , year on year and who is selling it.

 

[Lutz]

There are no written regulations that determine what is and isn't included in the manufacturers basic kit, It should tell you in the manufacturers handbook.

Even if the handbook tells you that an item of equipment is included, it doesn't automatically follow that it's in the MIRO. The MIRO is the weight of the caravan that the manufacturer submitted for type approval. However, he may have made changes to the specification after type approval with amending the respective documentation, so it won't be reflected in the M IRO. The only sure way of knowing what the empty caravan weighs is to put it on a weighbridge.

 

[CrewOVtwo]

I'm pretty rubbish at working these things out, but would it not make sense to weigh it 'fully laden' and then see by how much it exceeds the MTPLM (or is hopefully a few kg under the MTPLM) as that is the figure beyond which I'm going to be travelling illegally?
Hopefully that doesn't sound too stupid.

 

[DaveA1]

The tolerance on road side weighbridges is +/- 50 kg your 27 kg would be well within that.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The real problem starts when the caravan leaves the factory with “declared “ MRO.

The number of variables that get mentioned by a dealer would fill a book!

Taking a very pedantic view, get the caravan weighed at a weigh bridge exactly as it came from the factory , as described , fluids etc.

Always seems to me the base point is very unclear model to model , year on year and who is selling it.

I'm not convinced that knowledge of the caravans ex works weight is particularly useful. The most important criteria is knowing you haven't exceed your MTPLM when you have loaded the caravan and are about to set out on a journey. I suggest it makes more sense to load your caravan with what you think your taking, and then get it weighed to establish the fact,

 

[ProfJohnL]

Even if the handbook tells you that an item of equipment is included, it doesn't automatically follow that it's in the MIRO. The MIRO is the weight of the caravan that the manufacturer submitted for type approval. However, he may have made changes to the specification after type approval with amending the respective documentation, so it won't be reflected in the M IRO. The only sure way of knowing what the empty caravan weighs is to put it on a weighbridge.

I recall that at least one manufacturer did publish a list of what was included in their caravans to establish their MIRO.

 

[Lutz]

I recall that at least one manufacturer did publish a list of what was included in their caravans to establish their MIRO.

I doubt whether the manufacturers always update the handbook immediately every time that there is a change to specification. A list of what is included may be helpful, but it's never going to be a guarantee that the actual weight of the caravan is exactly that quoted as being the MIRO. Your safest bet will always be a trip to a weighbridge.
I recall on another forum some time ago where an owner had a copy of the type approval certificate of his particular caravan and that quoted a difference of over 200kg between actual weight and MIRO. (The actual weight is documented by the manufacturer only in the type approval certificate, but that is rarely made available to the customer in the UK, although one has the right to receive a copy and one would need it if the caravan were ever to be registered abroad).

 

[Buckman]

The MIRO is generally the weight at which it leaves the factory so if a spare wheel was factory fitted it should part of the MIRO.

 

[GUMPY]

I worked out my load added it to the MIRO, loaded the van and went to the weighbridge.
It was then I found out that the published MIRO wasn't within 70kg of the actual weight of the van as on the weighbridge it was 70kg over the MTPLM.
Moral of this is the only way you can tell whether you are legal or not is to weigh the van. Most commercial weighbridges are within 20kg so to guarantee that you are legal on the weighbridge you need to be 20kg below the MTPLM 🤔
I weigh our van at least once a year to make sure C has not snuck anything extra into the van.

 

[Lutz]

The MIRO is generally the weight at which it leaves the factory so if a spare wheel was factory fitted it should part of the MIRO.

The MIRO is definitely not the actual weight of your particular caravan as it left the factory. It is the weight of a caravan that the manufacturer submitted for type approval and may have had a slightly different specification. For a start, MIRO, by definition, doesn’t include any factory fitted options.

 

[Buckman]

I worked out my load added it to the MIRO, loaded the van and went to the weighbridge.
It was then I found out that the published MIRO wasn't within 70kg of the actual weight of the van as on the weighbridge it was 70kg over the MTPLM.
Moral of this is the only way you can tell whether you are legal or not is to weigh the van. Most commercial weighbridges are within 20kg so to guarantee that you are legal on the weighbridge you need to be 20kg below the MTPLM 🤔
I weigh our van at least once a year to make sure C has not snuck anything extra into the van.

When we took our Lunar Delta TI to the weigh bridge, we were 40kg over. We took everything out of the caravan and weighed each item before putting it back into the caravan. We don't carry awning and poles in the caravan. On weighing the sums did not add up as we should have been just under the MTPLM.

We put everything back into the caravan and about two weeks later went back to the same weigh bridge. This time although slightly over, we were almost spot on the MTPLM which was good enough for me. Turned out that the weighbridge had been calibrated the day before!

 

[otherclive]

Not forgetting that caravan weight can actually vary due to ambient conditions. Not sure with modern more impermeable materials but wasn’t +/- 3%quoted in manuals?

 

[GUMPY]

When we took our Lunar Delta TI to the weigh bridge, we were 40kg over. We took everything out of the caravan and weighed each item before putting it back into the caravan. We don't carry awning and poles in the caravan. On weighing the sums did not add up as we should have been just under the MTPLM.

We put everything back into the caravan and about two weeks later went back to the same weigh bridge. This time although slightly over, we were almost spot on the MTPLM which was good enough for me. Turned out that the weighbridge had been calibrated the day before!

I use the same weighbridge even though it's miles from home as it's on our way out. Since the first revision it's been within 10kg every time.

 

[RogerL]

Not forgetting that caravan weight can actually vary due to ambient conditions. Not sure with modern more impermeable materials but wasn’t +/- 3%quoted in manuals?

I recall that +/-5% used to be quoted in the "olden" days with lots of wood in the structure and real wood in the furniture - modern caravans ought to have a much lower variation - but this is the caravan industry!

I recall a magazine test back in the '80s where they took a brand new caravan straight from the manufacturer to a weighbridge, without loading anything to it, and it weighed more than the Gross Weight - Gross Weight being the equivalent of MTPLM today.