NEC SHOW - salesmen

[RichardJ]

Morning all

visited the show yesterday, having spoken to dozens of people like our selves who quite simply do NOT want a shower fitted, we would have thought the makers would have introduced a reasonable sized van without a shower, noooooooooooo, according to nearly every salesman we spoke to, there is no call for one!!!!

We went to see all the vans against each other, saves travelling round a dozen or so show rooms, yet we could not find a van that we could both agree on, there were compromises, but not the van we were seeking.

There were some nice vans, and of course some, what can only be described as cheap and nasty.

Our main point is that the salesmen were unhelpfull, if I were going to buy a new van on the day, that might have been different, simple questions, do you have or are you going to introduce a van (4 berth) without a shower, one or two said no, saying that they were not liked by the traders!!! what about us??

We thought that the majority of sales people at the show yesterday were only interested if you were prepared to buy a new van there and then, obviously lots were sold.

Some time ago there was a survey, as to what van owners wanted in their vans, does anyone know what the results were?

We must have spoken to hundreds of van owners over the last year or so, and only 3 that we can recall used the shower.

Good place to store the awning!!!

 

[MikeJE]

Or even a 'van without a full size oven. Would leave a handy space to store the Remoska. Again probably no demand for it . . . . .

 

[bigbilly]

We go out approx. 125+ nights per year mainly on rallies, Cl's and CS's so the shower is essential. WE occasionally go on commercial sites with shower blocks but have got out of the habit of using them !

To me there seems to be a market to build a lightweight, less expensive van where there is a long list of fitted 'extras' such as shower, full size oven, microwave, radio etc. etc.

We never use the oven. In the Summer we bar-b-que and in the winter eat out.

Bill

 

[Rich]

I think if you search the forum about showers you will find a thread which asked who uses the van shower. The overall opinion was most do! For us a good shower is important as we use mostly CL's and with no on site shower facility we would probably stink to high heaven by the end of the weekend/week. Even at some sites with showers we have used the van shower as when we wanted a shower so did half the site and all of the kids were being showered before bed so it was a case of wait or use our own and as we were going out we used our own shower. Most dealers would tell you that if a van of a mid price spec had no shower they wouldn't be able to sell it. This is probably true or it would sit on their forecourt for a very long time. Without a shower customers options are limited and most wouldn't buy a van with no shower. If you really didn't want a shower why not have fixed bed van where the shower is basically a cubicle and get it removed yourself then lined with the same fibre board as the rest of the van and fit what you want into the space? getting that shouldn't be impossible I mean caravan repairers will have the materials and skills to do it. Turn it into a walk in wardrobe. But then when it comes to selling it on expect to have it sitting round for a while....... But at least it is what you want.

 

[Thorpedo]

Rich has made some good points with which I agree.

The resale of a van without a shower could become much more difficult. If I were a dealer taking one on trade in I would offer a very low price as it would be difficult to sell on.

I imagine manufacturing costs are kept as low as possible by standardising the production line, so if we all wanted vans with many different options the production line would become very complicated and expensive.

We use the Shower, the Toilet, the Oven, the Microwave, the heater, the Fridge, even the Freezer gets my Cider down to a good temperature. This is especially when on CL sites with no facilities.

A colleague of mine who bought a van to live in for 6 months whilst moving house was adamant he would use the site shower and not get the awning out of its bag to try to maintain the resale value.

Guess what, by the time he sold it he had the awning up and was using all facilities of the van including the shower, so at least having it gave him the option to change his mind from his original plan.

To digress, damn good idea buying a van to live in whilst moving house. Sell your house first (no onward chain), put any cash in the bank (not icesave!). Costs in from my estimations and puts you in a great buying position for a new property.

 

[Rich]

Bill. I think the biggest problem with "customisable" vans is the production side. We want a new van and if we bought a new Abbey then the new wheels would mean our Alko lock wouldn't fit so we asked if we can have a set of GTS wheels if the Alko fitted into the spokes. I was told quite bluntly NO! The guy used to work for the Swift Group and said the production line was set and due to the complexity of producing vans making indevidual changes were impossible. I mentioned the Triumph motorcycle production line which is over a mile long and he said making a van was more complex than a motorcycle! Those who have done the free factory tour will know he is so far off it is not funny! I mentioned how Triumph can not only build different colour bike but completely different models from 675cc bikes to 900cc bikes and then 2300cc bikes one after the other on the same line! He then said it was easy for Triumph as they must only build only 7 or 8 bikes per day! Mmmmm.... The truth is they turn bikes off the line at a rate of about 1 every 60 seconds! He went on to argue I knew nothing and he was an engineer and it was all down to engineering! Wrong thing to say!! As a production and developement engineer in the motor industry myself. I know how it all works. In the end he claimed they had to order a set number of parts from suppliers and that made production runs set to that number as the supliers would get a set number of parts to them and adding one off orders was not possible..... So one excuse after another! Basically they cannot be bothered to customise an order and they have no way of lining up parts so the guys on the production line can mix and match for a customers. They just turn out the volume and then allocate to customers after wards. Dealer specials are the only case where you think they are building a custom van, but if you look they all offer the same upgrades so they produce them in a run like a regular production model and they have a set number to produce and make all of them in one run.

 

[bigbilly]

Rich - some good points well made.

I remember my first brand new caravan. It was a 5 berth, double at the front and mid bunks, double at the bottom and single on top. It had no battery charger but you were supplied with a plug so you could purchase a TP2 (?) unit. There was no oven and a small doored compartment into which you could put a stand alone Porta Potti. No shower, radio or clock.

It was all we could afford new but was ideal for the family to use on commercial sites.

Bill

 

[Zafiral]

Deseo or someone released a basic van last year, Practical Caravan ran one last year, that had everything optional or modular as they called it, owing to lack of interest it has been dropped so perhaps the market is very small

 

[Rich]

Thank you Bill.

I am shocked at the attitude of the manufacturers to their own products and the inflexability of it all. If we as customers find issue with a product they use and it gives them negative feedback they basically say tough! We are about to spend

 

[Chrisbee]

Thank you Bill.

I am shocked at the attitude of the manufacturers to their own products and the inflexability of it all. If we as customers find issue with a product they use and it gives them negative feedback they basically say tough! We are about to spend

 

[Rich]

I have a similar problem with the cooker on my Bailey. If the grille is in use and door open as per the instructions you can't open the oven door. Which master of ergonomics came up with that design? Obviously a fan of take aways!

Obviously the answer is to change what you want to eat to something else which is not what you want but what the cooker manufacturers want you to eat! Don't use both at the same time and/or cook another way..... Just don't do what you want as it upsets what they have "designed" for you as they know better than us as customers! I know Bailey will not get our money next year and with an attitude like that may not get it at all!

 

[RayS]

The sales brochure for Sprite Caravans in the late 1960's offered most models as shells with running gear and some basic items so that you could customise to taste and requirements. There was a reduction of about 12% on full list price.

At the same time there were suppliers of GRP shells with running gear for complete DIY finishing should you be so inclined.

Perhaps if makers are desperate to sell anything, they could consider this option.

 

[ShadySadie]

I wouldn't entertain a caravan without a shower or full oven, it even has to have four hob rings and it's about time that the grills were improved.

I'm sure there are annoying things about most caravans. What suits me will probably not suit you.

Just get on with it and stop moaning. You can live with most things and designers are never going to please everybody, the designers will never cover everyones whims.

As long as they don't make all vans part finished with silver sides I'll be happy.

 

[Rich]

Sadie,

Having a van which suits our needs is important to use all. A compromise in design is OK as we can work round that. Having a shower is one of the most important things to many of us and not having an option to customise means we just have to shop round to buy the best compromise we can. The OP and his request for a van without a shower would limit sales we know that and production means they mass produce vans which doesn't allow for any fliexibility. But using components which are poorly designed is not really acceptable now. Ovens, cookers, fridges, heaters and other suplied components should all work as we the user intends. Layout is generic and will not suit all people but an oven which cannot be used while the grill is in use or blown air heating which is supposed to heat the back of the van but the pipework is not insulated so it blows cooler air is just lazy! Stoves, Dometic and Thetford are supposed specialise in certain products so they need to work how we use them. Space and how we live differs from age and the activity we do, but we all eat and sleep so that should work as getting a grill as oven to work together shouldn't require planning to cook a meal.Even using a fridge should be simple but wasting space just because they want to have a flip up lid on the salad tray is dumb! If you had one uasable shelf in a 115 litre fridge would you be happy? Putting up with poor design for components and saying nothing about it is not going to improve them. If there is a problem or something which doesn't work very well. Tell them.

I understand the OP's request for no shower but again I also understand the need for sales and not limiting the vans target market. But when we have components fitted they need to work as well as possible for us as users!

 

[CameronBurns]

does everyone, but the tree you asked not have showers or something???

i disagree with storing the awning there. one pole that sticks out and the caravan shower tray has a hole in it. i know this from experience. are you after a 4 berth with a smaller washroom?

try these:

Fleetwood Heritage 530-3

Adria Adiva 552 PH

Adria Adiva 552 LT

Hymer Nova 530-3

the beat option i european maufacturers. they say that people in Germany, France etc.. just use the site facilities, so they have bigger living areas and smaller washrooms

 

[CameronBurns]

sorry, i meant three, not tree!

 

[trevgib]

if you dont want a shower in a van or an oven try a b&b with a bath

 

[Ogre]

I remember posting a very similar thread to this at the time of the NEC show LAST year.

Exactly the same problem, it seems. NO manufacturer WOULD ACCEPT that there really are people who DO NOT WANT a shower in their caravans. For whatever reason. After all it should be a buyers (Customers) choice

I accept that Caravan Manufacturers don't tailor individual caravans to each and every whim. I also accept that there are many people who DO want a shower on board. But to us it's a massive waste of already limited space.

But it would be really refreshing if they would LISTEN to what their CUSTOMERS actually want, rather than force feeding us what THEY want to sell. One model in each range could EASILY be made without a shower (despite their salesmen's spiel)............It is nonsensical drivel to say is is not possible.

Bottom line is that (just like last year) we would NOT buy a van from any of you. So who wins?

Certainly not the manufacturers or salesmen we spoke to,who remain with their heads buried firmly in the sand as far as this issue is concerned.

Let those who want showers buy the current vans. But please give those of US who are quite happy using the site facilities, the option of buying a model which suits OUR needs too.

 

[trucker]

I dont realy want a shower in my van either. What we did was buy a fixed bed van (near side) we use the shower/toilet compartment as a toilet, I unscrewed the shower hose off the fitment and fitted a blanking nut, so we now have a toilet compartment, when we come to sell the van pop the shower hose back on job done. we got fed up with getting wet every time we went to the toilet as the shower tap is so close to the door its very easy to knock.

Kevin

 

[Stephen_374341239]

At he end of the day you cannot please all the people all the time. There just to many of you out there?

 

[WatsonJohnG]

We use the shower when the oily rag, emery and air freshener cease to work

We also use the oven as its just the right size to store disposeable barbecues

We met one lady who kept her shoes in the oven

Well if Marylin could keep her underwear in the fridge why not!!

 

[Colinn]

...at the end of the day, a shower cubicle is only an empty space - use it for what you like...

 

[hughdavies]

Use the shower as a wet locker, hang your wet coats, mucky wellies, wash the dog down,put UV tubes all round and use as a solarium,plenty of uses if you dont want to shower,

 

[JohnKS]

Can't understand anyone not using the shower. Who wants to use a shower block where others have washed and left filthy with various foot complaints to catch?

Wouldn't go caravaning without a shower or an oven. We keep the water carrier in there when travelling. Very convenient.

 

[Rich]

John.. You have a point. I know as devils advocate someone will say wear flip flops but they will still not stop atheletes foot. I used to when I left school work in the mines and I caught it and we had to wear flip flops anyway! We use ours all the time. Love the convenience as we can have a shower dry off in comfort and go to bed fresh.