New proposed car tax bands

[Russell_5041510]

Has anyone seen the latest suggestions by a committee of MP's proposing that the top VED rate be increased from £210 to £1800 !

They are also suggesting that increments between bands is £300, with nothing payable for the least polluting cars, but then graduating up for each band. This would mean that an average car, such as a 2ltr petrol Mondeo would be in the 185g/km and above band, which I think could end up as £900 pa !

I was thinking of changing my car so that I can get a heavier van, but now I wonder if its worth it. At this rate, no one will be able to run a car powerful and heavy enough to tow with, and so will come the end of our hobby.

 

[Val & Frank]

Tim Yeo is on the lunatic fringe. Think of all the country folk who own 4 X 4s. Global warming is what it says Global, so the USA, France, Germany etc carry on regardless while the good ole UK leads the way.I believe a way around something like this would be to look at EU legislation and register your vehicle some place else.

We drive around 10000 miles per year, 8000 in a Polo and 2000 in a 4x4. So you take out a sorn for 6 months of the year for the 4x4. Have the reduced or zero rate for the polo which should then all come out neutral ???

Val & Frank

 

[Robtel]

Hopefully enough people whose opinions will carry some weight will bring some pressure to bear on this type of suggestion. I'm talking about the major manufacturers in British caravan industry who would suffer severely if this were to come into force. Car manufacturers and dealers would also be hit. The Caravan Club has always hinted at having some influence in certain quarters so lets see if they can do anything. Also the owners of vehicles involved could contact their own MPs,it is more than just caravanners who use these type of vehicles. The current trend is to be more environmentally friendly and while I am all for this I think some politicians are using it as a means of making a name for themselves. Most are probably being driven about in large official cars.

I expect that owners of large cars are going to have to pay extra but think the figures being quoted today are plain silly.

Robert

 

[PC_5119929]

If you sit back and let this drivel about these stupid tax hikes and road charging schemes go unchallenged, some dippy MP's will think they can get away with it.

SHOUT loud and they will get the point.

 

[TripHazard]

I agree its time for our voices to be heard what are our clubs and associations doing about this and who are the MPs so as we can vote them out at the next election

Caravans are geting heavier and cars smaller most of us need a large car or 4x4 to safely tow our vans Carl at large in Septs magazine has some good arguments

This is another tax by the back door and dont we all pay enough to drive with the tax on fuel.

Martin

 

[MooseontheLoose]

According to a news report earlier my vauxhall vectra (that tows my van) will cost me

 

[Moderator2_5083849]

Please keep this thread to the main subject.

It will not be allowed to deteriorate into a 4X4 only debate, nor will personal insults be tolerated.

The "proposed" banding simply revolves around "Gas Guzzlers" which may, or may not be 4X4's as many other vehicles also "Guzzle Gas".

 

[Viking1]

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?sectionid=55&articleid=1677686
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green/story/0,,1839072,00.html?gusrc"rss&feed=11"

http://www.itv.com/news/index_a063ce669c8a06d285b267e365e3fb46.html
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/07082006/344/minister-plays-car-tax-hike.html
well I found so news links but they mite be wrong.

Mark

 

[CliveCumbernauld]

A lot of this boils down to politician and so called experts being out of touch with modern vehicle technology. OK some 'big' V8 4x4 really do take the mickey when it comes to fuel consumption, but my eargerly awaited CRV can average about 40mpg.

Can you average executive in hi Petrol BMW get that? No!

It's assumed by many people that ALL offroad looking vehicles are gas guzzlers.

The motorist will only take so much of this Government fleecing the motorist and I suspect the time to stand up and chalenge the government is no far away

Clive

 

[Val & Frank]

What I was trying to get at is why single out 4x4s. You can have a 4x4 as greeen as you like, but a blanket tax will be very difficult to administer. If you are talking about pollution control and not just a revenue raising exercise will every vehicle require to be tested, or would it just be figures from the manufactuer.

If the goverment are serious about pollution just up the price of petrol, the heavy user would then pay more, end of story. But no we have to bring into this an attack upon a small number of people just so we the goverment can look good. I say tax the poor people off the road because that would then reduce the pollution effect of cars at a stroke. If you mean what you say you can have no arguement against that strategy.

Val & Frank ps I would be taxed off the road to,but at least it then fair.

 

[trucker]

Mod2, If you had been listening to radio 5 live today it has stated Gas Gusseling 4X4s. So I guess people are sticking up for what is their choice, with others suggesting that we who hve should not have.

Pete, Its a free country and as such we are entitled to our 4X4s. Not all are gas gusselers (mine isnt)nor is it a status symble. Its a car that I like and could afford.

There are alot of saloon/people carrires and estates out there which gussle gas more than mine so, please tell me why pick on the 4X4 im iterested to listen after all I might learn something!

Kevin H

 

[TripHazard]

thats the second time someone has mentioned stinky who is this stinky? he's certainly got me wound up talking the nonsence he talking its the reason misinformed MP's get involved in the 4x4 and large car debate. Anything to look PC and catch the so called greener vote. They will drive all of us off the road soon high fuel tax, now massive hikes in road tax maybe road tolls these are all just stealth tax's and its time our caravaning magazines, clubs and motoring organisations pulled together and cut these proposals off at the knees. A wee bit of civil disorder maybe whats needed remember the poll tax

Martin

 

[MONKEY1]

What was interesting to me at least was that this was proposed by a Tory MP and how the Labour Roads Minster was quick to poor scorn over the proposal.

Do I select that Labour are on some "car friendly drive" or do the Torries seriously want to get back into power.

If you take a straw Poll of everyone's present car who post on the forum 99% won't fall into the top tax bracket.

Everyone keeps on pointing to Aviation but it's emissions have consistently been falling for the last 20 years despite their being 4 times more planes in Europe's Skies.

In fact cars are the only sector of emissions in the UK that has increased.

MH

 

[Lol1]

What was interesting to me at least was that this was proposed by a Tory MP and how the Labour Roads Minster was quick to poor scorn over the proposal.

Do I select that Labour are on some "car friendly drive" or do the Torries seriously want to get back into power.

If you take a straw Poll of everyone's present car who post on the forum 99% won't fall into the top tax bracket.

Everyone keeps on pointing to Aviation but it's emissions have consistently been falling for the last 20 years despite their being 4 times more planes in Europe's Skies.

In fact cars are the only sector of emissions in the UK that has increased.

MH

So there are 4 times the ammount of planes in the air since 1986 and they are turning out less emmisions than on that date?

That is quite an advancement, which emmisions are there less of MH?

I find those figures to be astounding if you are talking about CO2 and if that is the case we should all be encouraged to fly, shouldn't we?

Perhaps Rover were correct when they tried to develope the turbine car.

As for emmisions from present day cars, it's my belief that they have been falling, it being the number of vehicles increasing and a poor road network that is the major contribution.

 

[sparkes]

According to the national statistics office Cars are not the only increase.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=901
Steve

 

[Lol1]

So there are 4 times the ammount of planes in the air since 1986 and they are turning out less emmisions than on that date?

That is quite an advancement, which emmisions are there less of MH?

I find those figures to be astounding if you are talking about CO2 and if that is the case we should all be encouraged to fly, shouldn't we?

Perhaps Rover were correct when they tried to develope the turbine car.

As for emmisions from present day cars, it's my belief that they have been falling, it being the number of vehicles increasing and a poor road network that is the major contribution.

Think my "M" key has a stutter....

 

[MONKEY1]

Lol,

Yes there is 4 times more point to point activity than there was 20 years ago - some of which is due to technology i.e. better control systems to use airspace but the majority of which is productivity based.

Airlines cannot afford for planes to sit on the ground. So they will try to get as many sectors out of their aircraft as possible.

Add to which the likes of Ryan Air who fly to airports which previously didn't even exist 20 years ago !!

Another point is that in 1985 a Boeing 737 used 4 tonne per hour at cruise now they use 2.4 tonnes and carry 20% more passengers.

The problem with Statistics that is they generalise to much and just use the heading "transportation" the ICAO or CAA give some good stats as to what the Aviation industry has done and continues to do.

CO2 emissions are down in the case of one operator in Denmark from 122 mg per tonne to 28 mg per tonne this was done through the removal of old equipment and it's replacement with state of the art CAT 3 equipment.

CO2 isn't just the only reduction the use of better engine design has had a huge effect on NOx emissions and let's not forgets Noise.

Whilst the NOx and Co2 levels with road transport have been falling the increase in mileages have a significant effect on the overall amount.

Your are right as are some other forum members that poor road conditions and roads layout have significant effects on Road Vehicle emissions.

MH

 

[CliveV]

And lets not forget our domestic heating boiler - be it oil gas or solid fuel. And what about cement production - it is the biggest single producer of CO2!

We could stop driving every car in the country tomorrow and the overall effect would be insignificant.

So the anti 4x4 diatribe is just a biggotted sop to the extremist tree huggers who are so wrapped up in their own little world that the truth means little to them.

Arthur Scargil once famously said in a TV interview when forced to see the truth by the interviewer:-

"Don't confuse me with the facts - my mind is made up!"

 

[GeorgeB]

OK folks, I think it's about time we called a halt on this 4X4 rant!

This is, after all a free country (or so I'm told!)& every one is free to choose what they want in the way of a tow car, & if your choice is a 4X4, then you've exercised your freedom of choice & good luck to you!

As with all things in life, there's good & bad in everything, whilst I accept that the perceived wisdom of the uninformed is that all 4X4's are gass guzzlers & poluter's (& no I don't currently drive a 4X4) Just remember the old adage.....

There are lies, damned lies & statistics

Statistics can be manipulated to prove anything you want them to prove.......for example......

You have one foot on a block of dry ice, the other foot is in a bowl of scalding water............

Staistically speaking............you are comfortable!

'nough said?

GeorgeB

 

[CliveV]

OK GEORGE - you stick your head in the sand whilst the rest of us try to stop the numpties from taxing ALL OF US more and more.

Statistically speaking you will probably benefit from the actions of others.

 

[GeorgeB]

Clive,

I think you'ved missed my point, which is, from the original posting re taxation of motor vehicles, it's degenarated into a free for all against 4X4's and peoples freedom of choice. I'm all for the bigger the poluter, the bigger the cost to them.

I dislike INTENSLEY paying tax, I'm taxed on what I earn, I'm taxed on what I spend, I'm taxed on what I save, & I'll be taxed again when I die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! & I'll be damned, if I get the oportunity, to let them increase the amount the extract from me to pay for their hobby horses.

We do, after all, have the ultimate sanction, THE VOTE, & we can all use it to remind the politicians that they work for us, not the other way around!

GeorgeB

 

[colin(bridgend)]

There is once again a lot of ranting and raving going on here re: 4x4s and gas guzzeling cars. By speaking up on this forum who will notice - about the only one who might see it is Margaret Becket as a fellow caravanner. What is needed is an united front from ALL motoring related organisations, publications, clubs, etc. to lobby the idiots at Westminster. They have their large cars, presumably for protection as they must be bullet/bomb proof, etc. What is needed is a think tank to look at and make a constructive report on all forms of pollution whether it be from industry, transport, domestic, etc, and then come up with constructive recommendations.

Why not get heavy commercial vehicles off the roads and back on the railways, make public transport pay so that normal commuting would be more suited to this. The bus/train operators are only interested in profit and will not act in a manner to serve the public as needed. Apparantly a 125 train per passenger is one of the most polluting form of transport within the UK. The smaller commuter trains at present are not far behind them.

As far as the so called environmentalists are concerned they appear to want to go back to the dark ages - they are against fossil fuel, nuclear fuel, objecting to natural wave generators and now appear to be anti wind farms. What the hell do the want?

We all must make representation whatever our hobby is and choice of transport - be it pedal power or a 4x4. We must not let them win with another stealth tax. How many would this put out of work in all forms of industry? Industrial. commercial, retail and tourist industry would be very heavily affected.

 

[Surfer]

I don't know why every one gets their knickers in a knot when these tax band increases are suggested. No political party wants to commit political suicide. It is just media hype! Increasing road tax will have the knock on effect of more untaxed vehicles on the road, effect car sales, fuel cusage etc etc the economy coudl not take such a blow never mind Gordon losing billions in tax.

 

[Lutz]

Going back to Frank's response, don't think that other countries are carrying on regardless. In Germany, road tax for private cars, including 4x4's used privately, is paid based on type of engine (petrol or diesel), exhaust emissions and engine size. The range is 6.75_ (or

 

[CliveV]

Hi Lutz

Why the significant diference between Diesel and Petrol?

Presumably more modern oil burners are graded as having lower emiisions so is the diferential in Germany less drastic with more modern diesels?

Also LPG & CNG - any idea on how Germany's Road Tax is charged for these powered vehicles?