New regulations?

[Jennifer2]

Just had our van in for its 4 year service. The technician in the workshop has been on an electrical course learning about what they describe as "the latest rules". So while working on our van, without any reference to us, he has disconnected/removed various things which OH has added, most of which have been in the van for at least 3 years and therefore 3 services now.
These included an extra socket (wire apparently not quite heavy enough), the battery back-up and the power monitor for the Alde, and the wire to the Smart Box (all 12v) (fuse not big enough), connector blocks wiring in a power use meter (saying they were 15amp, actually they are marked 16 amp).
So 2 questions......
are there new regulations since last year?
and should he be applying 2011/12 regs to a 2008 van?
OH is hopping mad, going to take him several hours to go over everything and find exactly what has been disconnected/removed, then re-instate it in a manner that it is easy to disconnect before next service.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi Jennifer
I have never heard of this down the pipeline but would not be supprised my van has not had a dealer service for the last 3years after it ran out of warranty I do my own but then again I have allways done my own car services and repairs so a van is no problem.
the gas is sorted by the nextdoor neibours lad who is a gas fitter he checks it out for us after I have serviced it in the spring,
there was I seem to remember a while ago some talk of having to have a electrical safety certificate were by if you did not have one you could not use site EHU's but this seems to have died after dealers spent time and money training and and certifying there technitians to do the tests. may be it has something to do with this.

 

[Surfer]

The electrician had no right whatsoever to interfere with the connections. The most he should have done is issued "advisories". I would tell him to reconnect everything that he disconnected or you are going to get someone else to connect them up and send the charges to the electrician. New regulations apply to statics and not touring caravans.
There was a very long thread on this last year and at the NEC show the NCC refsued to answer questions about it.

 

[weejock]

On the plus side at least you know the chap did a complete check.

 

[Dustydog]

Error

 

[Jennifer2]

Thanks guys, we were rather taken aback that they had let him go ahead and disconnect stuff without contacting us first. In fact OH is so annoyed that he is threatening not to take the van back to them next year. I wonder if we could use a mobile service engineer?
OH is very good with electrics and was satisfied that everything was safe, so would have offered to take full responsibility for the alterations had he been asked.
He has reconnected the socket meantime, the wire he had used was 1.25 sq mm, which according to my research should take 16amps, but the requirement is for 1.5 sq mm, which takes 18 amps. Bit odd as the MCB for the sockets is only 10 amps, so no chance of more than that being used. We have now obtained some 1.5 sq mm flex so this will be sorted. There are another 3 sockets in other places that he didn't pick up on as the wires cannot be seen easily.

The 12v Alde stuff was wired with the radio back to the battery, with a 13 amp fuse, this he reckoned was too small.

The Alde power monitor and the electricity meter were wired into the main cable, otherwise they would not work, but apparently no interruptions are allowed in this cable. How you can otherwise monitor and measure the power being used I have no idea. All he can do is put it back the way we need, and remember to revert it to the correct scenario before the next service.

OH is about to install a Gaslow single bottle system, goodness knows what will be said about that next year!

 

[Damian]

The National Caravan Council have made every Approved Workshop undergo electrical training on the 230v systems and 12v systems, which is not a bad thing really
What they are trying to force on every caravan owner is an Electrical Condition Report which is advised, but NOT mandatory, after 3 years from new and annualy thereafter.
As I have said it is NOT mandatory and you should have been asked if you wanted it doing and if not, they would ask you to sign a disclaimer (again NOT mandatory).

Under only extreme situations such as being a imminent risk of electric shock should they interfere with anything, but simply make you aware of the "problems" as they see it.

They have NO RIGHT to disconnect anything other than immediately dangerous installations.

As for saying a fuse is too small,what planet is he on? I can understand if the fuse rating was too large as there would be a risk of overheat and fire, but too small,,,,,,,,,,,whatever next.

They (the NCC) are putting out stories that sites wil not accept vans without an up to date EICR, however, no site has yet refused anyone to hook up, and the Caravan Club and C&CC have said they will not be asking for such paperwork yet.
There is a story about two sites in the West Country who have , apparently, refused to allow a person or people to use the hook up but when I asked for the names of the sites I was told they (the NCC) did not know!!!!!!!!!

If I were you I would complain to the National Caravan Council and report the dealer for carrying out unauthorised work

Just to note: NO they should NOT be applying the 17th Edition regulations to vans not built to those regulations, and the new regs are NOT retrospective. The worst you should have had is a note saying the installation does not meet current specification but is not unsafe to use.

Also as of the present time there is not a single caravan that has been built or is being bulit which conforms to the regulations.

 

[Jennifer2]

Thank you Damian for a very comprehensive reply, I think I will print it up for reference next year. Certainly we will be making it clear that they should not interfere with anything next time (unless dangerous of course).

 

[Damian]

I should have added in my last posting that despite extensive searching I cannot find a single case of anyone being killed by electrocution in a caravan in all the years they have been around.

 

[Bri2]

For the lenth of cable required and the 240v connection, why not over engineer and use the standard household wiring 2.5mm. OK its not carring 35 amps but your never going to have to worry if its sufficient to do the job at very little more expense.
Just a thought.
Bri

 

[Damian]

Quote " and use the standard household wiring 2.5mm"
You cannot use standard household wiring, ie single core twin and earth.
It MUST be multistrand flexible cable to allow for vibration.

Also, the 2.5mm multicore is a little on the large size for the terminal connections on the sockets.

 

[GStockton]

Jennifer. I fully agree with Damien on this subject.infact his answer tells me this guy is fully skilled and knows what he is talking about.Sometimes on this board there are to many people giving incorrect advice on caravan electrics.
I have now been in the electrical trade for 40 years and a current NICEIC Qualified supervisor. I would be prepaired to give a free electrical inspection to any caravanner who visited me, but would not advise on any electrical installation without seeing it.
Yes it is right no caravan fully complys with BS 7671 15th ,16th or 17th edition inc amendment1 yet the manufacturers issue a certificate.

 

[RichardJ]

Hi
The person testing had no right to dis-connect anything unless he could prove it was dangerous. Extra sockets should be in multistrand 2.5mm 3 core, as for 12 volt being fused at 13amp? a bit confusing, never seen a fuse that size for 12 volt.
The point of the mains cable, they are or should be 3 core, stranded cable, it is an extension lead, and should be able to carry 16amp safely, therefore a maximum of 25 metres and a minimum of 2.5mm.
when testing they have to work to the current regs, and thats the 17th edition IEE regs, if you need to see the latest ammendments to the 17th edition log onto the IEE web site.