Reading today Renault are releasing a new 1.6 two stage turbocharged diesel rated at 158hp and 280 lbft of torque.Going into the new X trail and Renaults offerings.Hope they come with extended warranty for the second owner.Personally i wouldnt expect one to last more than 60k,especially with towing duties included,seeing how bad Mazdas latest 2.2 has been will this be any better?
New renault engine
- Thread starter seth1
- Start date
one has to hope that lessons from the past are being learnt and newer even higher tech engines can cope and transmission parts can last better. Past data as yet doesn't seem to support this,but here's hoping.
Watch this space.Another ticking time bomb.They,ve made use of two stage turbocharging for all the wrong reasons.
You,ve lost me John with your comment,your question makes no sence of the quote i made.Please re read.
- Jun 20, 2005
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Seth
I see where you are coming from. I think?
Back in 1996 I had a Renault 19 executive 16 v hot hatch.
Brilliant.
Wherever you looked were all these warnings about oil consumption and daily oil checks.
It was the proverbial off the shovel but the thirst for oil was something else.
Renault engineering has always been " avant garde".
I agree with Seth. A time bomb.
Maybe. Let others lose their money.
I'm sticking to the good old BMC 1275 A series 3 bearing non crossflow non OH. And carburetor Twin SUs No fuel injection
o.
I see where you are coming from. I think?
Back in 1996 I had a Renault 19 executive 16 v hot hatch.
Brilliant.
Wherever you looked were all these warnings about oil consumption and daily oil checks.
It was the proverbial off the shovel but the thirst for oil was something else.
Renault engineering has always been " avant garde".
I agree with Seth. A time bomb.
Maybe. Let others lose their money.
I'm sticking to the good old BMC 1275 A series 3 bearing non crossflow non OH. And carburetor Twin SUs No fuel injection
o.
New fangled things like Colourtune took all the fun out of carburettor tuning - it should all be done by ear - try setting the carburettors on a Cortina-Lotus with two twin-choke Weber DCOE40s where all 4 barrels had to be set separately - EVERY WEEK!Sproket said:
Or even getting the jetting right on a 28/36 Weber DCD differential twin-choke when moving it to a totally different engine capacity/camshaft.
Renault engineering was fine,infact better than alot in years gone by but they did have two great father figures mainly berliet and savieum.But my own opinon of the latest venture is very dearing at best.The idea of two stage turbocharging is not new.But the industry norm for using it is not to gain power or torque although it can and does happen but instead to combat emmisions and AFR,s. Infact manufactures who do use it on the industrial side of things actually derate the engine by as much as 10% over a single turbocharger set up.We,l wait and see,i,ll stick with my big old fashioned Fiat 2.4 mjet.
seth1 said:
Like the Fiat JTD has a good reputation - try paying the repair bills for Vauxhalls which use the 1.9 version of your engine, old-fashioned though it may be.
Funny really how GM derived jtd,s suffered which rightly said Roger they did.Please dont take this the wrong way but i read it was down to a poor instilation.The jtd in my opinon is still the best passenger vehicle diesel available,very lightly turbocharged,it harps back to fiats core long before the introduction of the industrial vehicle engineering company.
I think you mean the Renault 19 Dustydog??Dustydog said:
The engine had F16 on it, we had the same engine in the Clio we had, one of best cars i have ever owned, stuck to the road like it was on rails, and the power !!!!
- Mar 14, 2005
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Hoist by my own petard,
Yes Seth, Sorry I didn't read you posting very well so please disregard my first question,
But the second still stood, which you have subsequently answered.
I have used or owned:- Renault Petrol models 10, 12, 17, A Feugo, 25, Espace 2.0L, and turbo diesel Espace 2.2Dt and related Vauxhall Movano 2.2 Diesel van.
I have only had engine problems with the Espaces. The 2.0 petrol blew its head gasket, and the 2.2DT Diesel had a cambelt jump one notch, fortunately with no valve or piston damage.
So in about 250,000 miles with Renault only two notable failures. Perhaps my experience is unusually good, but I do find that electrics were poor in all of the vehicles, and with the exception of the plastic Espaces, all the others suffered with body rot far more than other contemporary cars (except the Lancia's and Japanese imports).
Until its been around for a little while, I think its far too early to predict problems with the latest engine. Who knows it might be a little gem waiting to set the motoring world alight.
Yes Seth, Sorry I didn't read you posting very well so please disregard my first question,
But the second still stood, which you have subsequently answered.
I have used or owned:- Renault Petrol models 10, 12, 17, A Feugo, 25, Espace 2.0L, and turbo diesel Espace 2.2Dt and related Vauxhall Movano 2.2 Diesel van.
I have only had engine problems with the Espaces. The 2.0 petrol blew its head gasket, and the 2.2DT Diesel had a cambelt jump one notch, fortunately with no valve or piston damage.
So in about 250,000 miles with Renault only two notable failures. Perhaps my experience is unusually good, but I do find that electrics were poor in all of the vehicles, and with the exception of the plastic Espaces, all the others suffered with body rot far more than other contemporary cars (except the Lancia's and Japanese imports).
Until its been around for a little while, I think its far too early to predict problems with the latest engine. Who knows it might be a little gem waiting to set the motoring world alight.
GM were buying the engines in from Fiat fully assembled so I don't see how an acknowledged design fault with the swirl pots can be put down to "poor installation".seth1 said:
And have you heard the major issues that Royal Mail has got with it's fleet of Fiat Doblo's - the posties have had to be taught how do do a manual forced DPF regeneration by the roadside because they're failing so often.
When I first got married, the guy in the flat below had an ex-Jim Clark Lotus-Cortina mk1, I used to drool over it - I eventually p/x'd my 1100 Escort as straight swap for an ex-Sussex Police Cortina-Lotus mk2, RPX719E, with it's 108bhp Twin-Cam.Dustydog said:
The repositioning of "Lotus" was significant as they'd built all the mk1s in Norfolk, with alloy panels, but the mk2s were built by Ford with just the engine coming from Lotus.
I couldn't afford the insurance either so it had to go, replaced by a company Escort 1300 which "aquired" the carburettor, inlet manifold and free-flow exhaust from an Escort GT, not that my boss knew of course!
Rodger ,your post made me smile , I had a 105e (998) I found a dumped Mk 1 Cortina lotus all the main panels like doors , boot lid .bonnet & wheels & most of the engine ancillaries missing, with much effort I managed to remove the engine & gearbox & fitted it in the 105E I remember out accelerating an E type with it but it frightened me so much I eventually refitted the old engine & sold the twin cam for £35 when I think of what we used to do without thinking of things like insurance ect makes me shudder
"the posties treat them like a skip" another snipet,"fiat advised us not to buy them due to the stop start work in london" and lets not forget the 1.3mjet has GMs markings all over it.(timing chain????????)The instalation Rodger is nothing to do with the finished ex factory engine,but GMs version was built by GM(the J V) and installed by GM.Clearly you,ve never seen the two units side by side,there is a host of differences including the oil service centre which is on a complete different side of the engine.Typically GM,why buy a unit in when they had their own with plenty of scope left,we know the answer to that.
ProfJohnL said:
OMG. the blind leading the blind..! when Lancia's rotted no more so than the fords or Austin's of the same era, and were build with the same crap steel as Fiats! strange how Fiats rep was no worse than those of others! stranger still the metal supply was changed after 9 months to not as cheap crap so it effected cars built in an 9 month or so period,something again that seems to get lost in time. no doubt a tabloid reader.still recall silly headlines like " engine falling out" be written by dumb ass journalist, who frankly had no idea. still recall the same tabloids and blind people using the same speech in the ate 80's early 90's,with regards Lancia's. even though they'd followed Audi and galvanised all metal, well before it became common place..mind you the up side was i owed many of them they were cheap to buy second hand,exceptional value really, bar the intragrales ,which for some reason even though they were build the same never suffered because of the so called reputation.. cars rusted in those days for many reasons and yes some rusted worse than others but to come up with some sort of league table of who was worse with claims,of " lancias and Japanese cars! rusted worse, than Renault," i saw some poor ford fiesta's heck saw plenty of poor fords but i have no idea if they were in the minorityor not! so what are you basing your opinion on? and over which period of time? what data have you used for such claims?..the sun tabloid! this thread was started about Renault and their use of twin turbo technology on their latests 1.6 engine, frankly i am interested on what Seth has to say on this,subject his knowledge far exceeds my own as it does yours, So surely the question to ask,as a laymen would have been "why the concern seth" so i'm asking it now...... edited, and as i wrote this you asked the question,well done..
GM have been buying in their diesels from the year dot - Peugeot, BMW, Isuzu, Fiat, VM Motori in the last 20 years - they have produced the odd one themselves but always soon replaced with a bought-in unit in the past.seth1 said:
The GM-Fiat Alliance was somewhat strange, GM "donating" the Vectra platform for the Fiat Croma and Fiat "donating" both the 1.3 and 1.9 JTDs - when the alliance was dissoved both Fiat and GM retained rights to all donated technologies and have subsequently developed the JTD independently with the "new" 1.3 version called the GM SDE and the "new" 2.0 called the GM LDE.
The only new/original diesel from GM is the 1.6 MDE currently being rolled out.
My observation of modern diesels is that there isn't a good reliable one out there - if you look, not too hard, it's easy to find significant reliability issues with all of them, including those with a "good" reputation - they'll mostly last their 3 years / 60,000 miles under warranty as company lease cars but there's nothing modern that can be recommended to a used car buyer with every brand having major issues with diesel engines as they get more miles on them - VW Group and PSA are living on their historic reputations but not living up to them these days.
Well its the question ive been asking myself the last 10 years.Why do away with two of your own self produced engines(one with Isuzu admittedly) and resort to a second party engine
,when both units had plenty of development left in them?The 2litre DTI had the basis it required,16 valve,direct injection,compact unit.Slap common rail on it like we did and away to go.Surely it was easier to redesign piston crowns and maybe cylinder heads than go through the trouble with Fiat.
I can honestly see a backwards turn with this latest crop of high powered diesels,these manufactures have got no real proper experience of diesel development,ive got a friend who already has gone through one engine at 20k on a mazda cx7 through a blocked oil pick up,and even now the replacement is making oil in the sump due to oil dilution.Another friend works as a policeman,informs me last week they,ve lost 3 engines in a month(BMW X40d) through bottom end failures although the single turbocharger X30d is apparently "safe"
Reading some info on this latest Renault offering,its fitted with special "u"shaped piston rings to combat cylinder wall flexing. LOL.100hp per later is not yet reliable achievable.Just my opinon.
,when both units had plenty of development left in them?The 2litre DTI had the basis it required,16 valve,direct injection,compact unit.Slap common rail on it like we did and away to go.Surely it was easier to redesign piston crowns and maybe cylinder heads than go through the trouble with Fiat.
I can honestly see a backwards turn with this latest crop of high powered diesels,these manufactures have got no real proper experience of diesel development,ive got a friend who already has gone through one engine at 20k on a mazda cx7 through a blocked oil pick up,and even now the replacement is making oil in the sump due to oil dilution.Another friend works as a policeman,informs me last week they,ve lost 3 engines in a month(BMW X40d) through bottom end failures although the single turbocharger X30d is apparently "safe"
Reading some info on this latest Renault offering,its fitted with special "u"shaped piston rings to combat cylinder wall flexing. LOL.100hp per later is not yet reliable achievable.Just my opinon.
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