New renault engine

[xtrailman]

3 years / 100,000 mile warranty is unusual because few owners will get close to that mileage in that short a time - a more normal good warranty is 5 years / unlimited mileage (Hyundai, Subaru, Toyota) or 7 years /100,000 miles (Kia)

I would have liked a Rav4 but the engine doesn't have enough torque for me.
Drove a Santa FE I didn't like the drive, and its too big and heavy for my needs.
The smaller SUV whose name or number I can't recall doesn't have the 2.2 diesel that the SF has.

Subaru I've got fed up of trying to like one of those, the last time I tested one the engine was great, but the car looked like something from the 80's.

I do whish Nissan or Mazda would give better warranties as those are the cars I'm happy with.
I've had an Honda accord and Toyota Carina2 in the past but they just don't make cars that appeal.

The Koreans certainly do, but when I get behind the wheel all my enthusiasm dies.

 

[RogerL]

For me - the RAV4 is too small, the LandCruiser too agricultural and the Amazon too big - the Highlander isn't sold here - the Subarus are too small, their styling is "marmite" love it or hate it - I've never rated Nissan - Mazda built better Fords than Ford - the CR-V is too small.

The Santa Fe is the size I want but only the 2010-2012 suspension settings suit my tastes, developed in Germany using the Subaru Outback as a benchmark - to get more agility on twisty back roads from a 2 tonne SUV you'd have to go up to X5 or RRS but the Santa Fe hasn't got the ride comfort at more sedate paces.

Almost every car is a compromise, so each of us has to focus on our priorities and get the minimum compromise on those. Right now there's nothing sensibly priced that I'd buy to replace my Santa Fe because everything does something significantly worse even if they do several things better.

 

[Dustydog]

I replaced our nine year old 135k Sorento with one of the last mk 1s with 35k 08 plate.
It does the job. Not that frugal but as a tug the best at the price.
The Santa Fe is close behind and pipped at the post by a whisker.
Kia's move to the lighter Sorentos was a big mistake. Useless as a tug Imo.
Engine developments towards green credentials is to be applauded u it is relevant to a tugger of a heavy unit?

 

[RogerL]

Kia's move to the lighter Sorentos was a big mistake. Useless as a tug Imo.

Body-on-frame construction has become a dinosaur in Europe because it's heavy - when the Defender goes out of production and the Discovery 5 introduced, only the two big Toyotas will still be body-on-frame as everything else, bar pickups, has moved to lighter conventional construction.

Fact is that caravan manufacturers have to wake up to tow vehicles getting lighter - it's necessary for economy and low emissions and is a process that will only continue.

It was entirely predictable that the old heavy Sorento would be badly compared with it's lighter Santa Fe-based replacement - but apart from the weight loss the new Sorento is better in every way - strange that the Santa Fe was only just pipped in your evaluation !!

 

[ProfJohnL]

But its alright for you to call people "self acclaimed experts"Differentionate please John. It still stands you compare an F1 engine to what this forum is about- tow cars not 18,000rpm petrol engines.If you were in the field and seen the kind of stuff we see you might get the picture,and its not just Renault either,but only Renault are brave,or daft enough to release something like this.
As Ray points out he,s not that happy about the two turbo set up in case they fail.But forget the cost of the turbos for a moment,how about the cost of removing the engine to install them?
As Roger rightly says along the lines of my first post,forget out of warranty reliabilty and therefore the second owner will suffer.Used for correct purposes its a great idea,not for 160hp from a 1600cc engine.Forget it.

Seth.
I made a specific comparison between the engine manufactures engineers and those who contribute on forums - myself included. Because of the manufactures access to samples facilities and data they will have a superior knowledge to any of us in respect of the new engine.

Of course I know that F1 engines are not used for towing, and I never in any way implied it. However any company involved in the development of racing engines will look at any new developments from the programme and consider if they have any value in production engines. Renault are not alone that respect, Mercedes, Ferrari and soon to be Honda and in earlier times there have been others including Ford, Toyota etc.

The use of Bi or sequential Turbos is not unique to Renault, Saab have produced road cars with them, and other manufacturers have or are looking at them.

Ray's concerns about engine removal costs will apply to single or bi turbos, but it can also apply to several other mechanical failure issues so so its not a specific issue to Biturbo's. Unless Biturbos are they are unreasonably unreliable.

I do agree that manufacturers primarily concerns are to get through the warranty period. And as an engine ages the probability of a major component failure increases, However there are plenty of modern engines still running satisfactorily at 100K plus miles. So are these concerns justified about and engine which is barely available yet? There is no evidence yet.

Renaut have had several engineering firsts in the automotive world and I accept not all Diesel related, but to simply discount them because of past history of some engine issues could be a mistake.

Historically we have seen many widely believed 'certainties' proven wrong, for example, Flat earth, travelling at more than the speed of sound. direction of current in a circuit, all firmly held beliefs of their time, but also quite comprehensively disproven as technology and understanding advanced. So I can't subscribe to a notional limiting figure for bhp/litre.

Only time will tell.

 

[seth1]

John you have not listened to a word ive said.I have not discounted Renault at all because of previous engines or problems,because really Renault have not had any major issues.My concern lies with the concept and weather its Ford,Honda,Fiat,Saab a Korean or German make i wont be buying a 1.6 twin turbo diesel to tow my caravan.I dont like to relie on over worked turbocharger/s to get me to the top of a hill.
Likewise John how do you know what the outcome will be,have you got a cristal ball?John i see it all the time,tiny little twin turbo 9litre engines were 5 years ago a 15 litre engine was fitted.Take a look at the control panel,constantly operating at 100% engine load,spewing oil out everywere due to the engine temperature,and kicking out more crankcase pressure than a steam train,there is a mass of complication when producing something like this and from experience its just not as simple as bolting on another turbocharger.I really hope it works,if not for Renault but for the people that buy them.

 

[xtrailman]

Fact is most new diesels suitable for towing are twin turbo.
Bmw 2L, Volvo 2L 4 pot all good tow engines and with high engine outputs.
I see no difference between a 1.6L with the same output per Litre.

Very few modern engines fail with low miles, due to engine outputs.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Seth,

This is getting silly.

I have read your posts, and with the exception of the second one, I have done so carefully. Perhaps some of your statements have been short on detail or ambiguous which leads to misunderstandings.

I have never claimed I know the outcome, that is the whole point, none of us know.

But it is a possibility that a new engine designed with the BiTurbo as a key element might be perfectly acceptable and just as reliable as previous larger non or single turbo'd units. - a point you at last seem to agree on.

Truce?

 

[Dustydog]

Kia's move to the lighter Sorentos was a big mistake. Useless as a tug Imo.

It was entirely predictable that the old heavy Sorento would be badly compared with it's lighter Santa Fe-based replacement - but apart from the weight loss the new Sorento is better in every way - strange that the Santa Fe was only just pipped in your evaluation !!

It was close Roger.
The Sorento comes with LSD, Self levelling rear suspension. TOD 4x4 and a few other goodies.
I freely accept it's a dinosaur but what else will tug 1800kgs at an affordable price.When caravans become lighter maybe something smaller and economical will suit us better.

 

[RogerL]

Kia's move to the lighter Sorentos was a big mistake. Useless as a tug Imo.

It was entirely predictable that the old heavy Sorento would be badly compared with it's lighter Santa Fe-based replacement - but apart from the weight loss the new Sorento is better in every way - strange that the Santa Fe was only just pipped in your evaluation !!

It was close Roger.
The Sorento comes with LSD, Self levelling rear suspension. TOD 4x4 and a few other goodies.
I freely accept it's a dinosaur but what else will tug 1800kgs at an affordable price.When caravans become lighter maybe something smaller and economical will suit us better.

The Santa Fe doesn't have LSD, unlike my previous Subaru, but I can't say I've missed it.

I realise that the Sorento you bought is the last of the old type - I just found it strange that the Santa Fe came close but a newer Santa Fe-based Sorento didn't - there's a good few people that think the newer Sorento is the better of the two siblings although I'm aware that versions of Sorento without rear levelling did get criticism from tuggers - unlike versions of Santa Fe without self-levelling - go figure!

Having had self-levelling on the Santa Fe, the previous Subaru and a couple of Vauxhalls I wouldn't be without it now even if it means buying a more expensive model.

Which is absolutely nothing to do with Renault engines - apologies from Fred Drift.

 

[seth1]

No Ray its not fact at all,nearly every maker offers a lower powered version of the same engine,BMW 318,320,325,330 and the same with the 5 series.Audi A3,A4,A5 and A6.VW offer 2.0tdi,s in Golfs and passats all single turbo lower powered.Are these not really up to towing?You are correct not many engines to fail at low miles through high rating,but did i not mention second owner,warranty?But hey Bmw had a lot of low mile failures on the 2litre diesel and so have mazda.As ive said Ray thats my opinon,im not going to change it through reading an article in Autocar.John no problems at all,this is what makes a forum a great place.I enjoy listening to you,about such stuff as caravan dynamics something i know sod all about and know that.Happy days.