There is a new rule where i leave my caravan
All Gas Cylinders should be removed from site
Has anyone else come across this ?
All Gas Cylinders should be removed from site
Has anyone else come across this ?
New Rule for my Silver CASSOA Storage
- Thread starter Beachball
- Start date
Damian
Moderator
Unfortunately it is becoming more the required action, which from a safety point of view is sensible.
Should a van end up in flames, it is only sensible NOT to have the added danger of gas cylinders in vans close by adding to the problem.
Should a van end up in flames, it is only sensible NOT to have the added danger of gas cylinders in vans close by adding to the problem.
We have to remove our gas cylinder - both at our previous storage, and now in France.
Years ago, our neighbours garage was subject to an arson attack, and his caravan parked several feet away. The heat of the fire started to melt the front of the van, and the neighbour was desperately trying to move it - but of course the steadies were down. OH wound up the rear steadies, they tilted the van backwards, and then they managed to pull it away, but it was inches or seconds away from a potentially very nasty situation.
Years ago, our neighbours garage was subject to an arson attack, and his caravan parked several feet away. The heat of the fire started to melt the front of the van, and the neighbour was desperately trying to move it - but of course the steadies were down. OH wound up the rear steadies, they tilted the van backwards, and then they managed to pull it away, but it was inches or seconds away from a potentially very nasty situation.
Except that overall it reduces safety, not improves it.Damian-Moderator said:
If you need to remove gas cylinders you need to transport them in your car, unsecured - not illegal as private individuals but just as unsafe - then you have to store them at home, unlikely to fit a safety cage so again, not illegal but just as unsafe.
Its "getting the monkey off their back" - simply making it someone elses problem without solving a problem.
This is interesting:-
It is almost certain that sites requiring owners to remove gas cylinders from stored caravans have been told they must do this by their insurance companies under advisement by the their fire safety advisers. No bad thing as it does reduce the difficulties the fire service face if a fire were to breakout.
So this shows the insurance industry must consider sites potentialy liable for loss or damage to customer property whilst in their care.
It is almost certain that sites requiring owners to remove gas cylinders from stored caravans have been told they must do this by their insurance companies under advisement by the their fire safety advisers. No bad thing as it does reduce the difficulties the fire service face if a fire were to breakout.
So this shows the insurance industry must consider sites potentialy liable for loss or damage to customer property whilst in their care.
BTW the same token, two full gas cylinders can be very difficult to load into a car every time you park up. Both of us have to do it as both of us have arthritis. What about those units that have "permanent fixed" bottles that are refillable? A hell of a job to disconnect those. What would your car insurance people say if a gas bottle in your vehilce caused extensive damage to your vehicle and also involved third parties?
The Fire & Rescue Service will still assume that caravans have gas cylinders in because they generally do and no-one can guarantee that every owner has complied with the site's rules - conversely they may attend a house or car fire and not know that gas cylinders are present, which increases their risk and difficulty considerably.Prof John L said:
Hello Roger,
I hadn't considered the home scenario, but certainly the issue of carrying cylinders in cars has been discussed previously.
Perhaps sites should have a gas cage where customers are expected to deposit their bottles.
I hadn't considered the home scenario, but certainly the issue of carrying cylinders in cars has been discussed previously.
Perhaps sites should have a gas cage where customers are expected to deposit their bottles.
I remove the cylinders each time the caravan goes back into its storage (silver). The site owner has stipulated this for a number of years but I would also do it just to remove the likelihood that some 'sproat' steals them. Don't have a problem in the car as I use a cargo net and also lash the carry handles to the load points which most estates and hatchbacks have. Otherwise trap them between the front and rear seats with a some loose material around them such as a couple of cushions.
A few years ago (2005) there was a fire in a caravan on the forecourt of the caravan dealers in Newport, South Wales. By the end of the night every caravan was left as just a chassis, caused by exploding gas cylinders.. After that even caravans taken if for a service were not allowed to have gas cylinders in them - the insurance company's stipulation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4363058.stm
Yes - the same could also happen in storage where caravans are even closer to each other.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4363058.stm
Yes - the same could also happen in storage where caravans are even closer to each other.
RogerL said:
Well the mobile guy who came to service our van carries a bottle of each for that said purpose.
So he can servicing a van when there is no bottle with the van either at home or when in storage.
Gas cylinders must always be transported and stored upright and secured so they cannot fall over or move.
It is never a good idea to transport gas cylinders inside cars or closed spaces.
Just as a quick guide, it would only need about 100CC of liquified gas or 25 litres of gas vapour to leak and expand inside a car to produce enough gas air mixture to rip the roof off, and you probably would'nt even know its leaking until its too late.
It is never a good idea to transport gas cylinders inside cars or closed spaces.
Just as a quick guide, it would only need about 100CC of liquified gas or 25 litres of gas vapour to leak and expand inside a car to produce enough gas air mixture to rip the roof off, and you probably would'nt even know its leaking until its too late.
With the new Calor lite bottles, I believe that a lot of the danger is removed as apparently the bottles melt and there is some sort of safety system that allows them to vent into the air and burn instead of exploding. Is this correct?
Several LPG suppliers utilise valve gear with a built in excess pressure relief valve such as would happen in the event of a fire. As a result bottle explosions are very rare for steel bottles. The relief valve vents the resultant vapour release burns off.
The problem is if a bottle is not upright, in which case the relief valve vents liquified gas, and that dumps approxamately 250 times the amout of combustible material through the same size hole. - very nasty not only is it a fuel, but as it tries to evapourate it cools ist self sufficiently to cause sever frost burns if it comes into contat with the skin, and then when its evapourated its highly flamble when it mixes with air.
The problem is if a bottle is not upright, in which case the relief valve vents liquified gas, and that dumps approxamately 250 times the amout of combustible material through the same size hole. - very nasty not only is it a fuel, but as it tries to evapourate it cools ist self sufficiently to cause sever frost burns if it comes into contat with the skin, and then when its evapourated its highly flamble when it mixes with air.
Frightening stuff. Maybe those who have to store their bottles at home because of Storage site Rules should ask their own home insurers about the potential risks. If the reply is the usual 'You wouldn't be insured..................' then there would be a case for insisting that storage sites provide safe facilities for the storage of removed gas bottles. I know ours in France is stored in a very different area of the warehouse, well away from combustible materials, and the owner was talking about having a caged rack for the bottles.Prof John L said:
Mind you, now that we rely on site electrics, and rarely use our gas these days, we did wonder whether we needed to replace our current cylinder when it runs out. The only time we used it previously was on long journeys when en-route, to boil a kettle or heat a meal, but these days we have a small portable gas stove for that purpose as we no longer tow the caravan such long distances - only between sites these days.
Hi if i change propane 6kg x2 to the new lightweight ones would they be easier getting them out of the front of the bailey because since my husband had his last stroke before Christmas his mobility is limited now. (.The other thing where do i put them if no garage )
I'm sorry if I've frightened anyone with teh facts I have given, That was partly deliberate to alert users to some of the potential problems, howver i do have to balance the arguamnt a little now.
LPG is an absoluetly superb fuel, its very clean, and easy to use, but it is important to treat it with proper respect.
If you need to keep LPG at home, then these leaflets from Calor will be of interest:-
http://www.calorgas.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Using-Propane-Cyclinders-Safety.pdf
http://www.calorgas.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Using-Calor-Butane-Cyclinders-Safety.pdf
Idealy I personally recomend going further than Calor suggest, and invest in a lockable external gas cage to deter theft and tampering. But do take note of the requirements for about location of storage and distance from boundaries, and access to low lying rooms or other ducts that migh allow any gas leakage to collect and grow to a dangerous flamable density.
LPG is an absoluetly superb fuel, its very clean, and easy to use, but it is important to treat it with proper respect.
If you need to keep LPG at home, then these leaflets from Calor will be of interest:-
http://www.calorgas.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Using-Propane-Cyclinders-Safety.pdf
http://www.calorgas.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Using-Calor-Butane-Cyclinders-Safety.pdf
Idealy I personally recomend going further than Calor suggest, and invest in a lockable external gas cage to deter theft and tampering. But do take note of the requirements for about location of storage and distance from boundaries, and access to low lying rooms or other ducts that migh allow any gas leakage to collect and grow to a dangerous flamable density.
A quick check shows that our lease does not permit us to store gas bottles in our garage so we may have an issue if similar rules were applied to our site.
This is a latest update i take the gas cylinder out of the caravan and also Caravan Storage has changed from a Silver and is now a Gold.
Just to answer an earlier question I store the cylinders in the garden hidden away from sight under a shrub. Although in winter they will be used to power the green house heater or BBQ in summer. It is interesting to see the proposals for garden storage in locked cages etc. But I note that Calors catalgues show BBQ and patio heaters close to a house and no suggestion that the cylinders are removed after each use. Could we caravanners just be being softened up for yet more expense?
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