New Soooper High Speed Train Link

[Past_it]

Is it me?
I'm amazed we are going to spend £32 Billion on a new train system when we can't afford to maintain the one we have, and you have to take out a mortgage to buy a ticket.
And what difference would 40minutes make on a journey, just enough time to have another beer.
I must be missing something!

 

[Sproket]

So Remind me
What party was in power when the Beeching cuts took place

 

[Dustydog]

Who will buid the rolling stock?

Bombardier

 

[Mel]

Who will buid the rolling stock?

Bombardier

Perhaps it has only been agreed so that the govt can give the contract to Bombardier and extract itself from the mess it created when they gave the contract to Germany.

I bet all the tunnel bits that don't destroy the countryside will be in Tory constituencies as well.
mel

 

[RogerL]

The reduction in journey time isn't real - they're talking about reducing Birmingham-London from 1:24 down to 0:49 - it's farce because the journey time was 1:15 in the 1960s when that line was first electrified.
And what's the point of saving 26 minutes when it'll still take forever to get where you want within Birmingham and London - surely it's high speed local travel that everyone needs?

 

[Past_it]

I don't think the journey time be better, someone will nick the signal cables for scrap.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Does anyone know where the evidence for the 'proven business case' is that the government is claiming has been made?

We are in the age when it is supposed that the super information highway should reduce the need to physidally travel from city to city for business purposes. As others have said shaving 20 to 40 minutes of a journey time between Brum to London, who does that honestly help?
If we lack capacity on the current lines, then ther are ways they can increase capacity without laying new lines, for example longer or even tandem trains. or use the funds to introduce double decker trains on the exsisting lines between the major cities.
HST2 is in my view an unecessary white elephant.

 

[Shirker]

Around £1bn per minute saved - that does seem a little obscene doesn't it??

I can understand high speed trains in France which is four times larger than the UK so linking major cities like that brings a good benefit, but Birmingham to London? Really? In the States that would still be considered the suburb of London! Absolute utter wasteful madness.

 

[emmerson]

And just watch the £32billion double or treble before its finished.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

Perhaps we should be thinking of an E petition, to show our disgust at such blatant waste. I wonder how many of our 60,000,000 will ever travel from London to Birmingham?

 

[Sproket]

Perhaps we should be thinking of an E petition, to show our disgust at such blatant waste. I wonder how many of our 60,000,000 will ever travel from London to Birmingham?

Plenty of HS2 e-petitions

do you want to sign one or more ?

 

[Past_it]

I was speaking to several Germans in London recently and although they couldn't talk about the project they were on, they did say they worked for a german company called Herrenknecht.
http://www.herrenknecht.com/

I wonder??

 

[RogerL]

I was speaking to several Germans in London recently and although they couldn't talk about the project they were on, they did say they worked for a german company called Herrenknecht.
http://www.herrenknecht.com/

I wonder??

Quite possibly for the main tunnel through the Chilterns - the others are "green" tunnels - which aren't tunnels really, they're deep cuttings with a tube laid inside and then covered over and landscaped.

 

[Surfer]

Shouldn't the post heading have been Sooper scooper pooper train? That ws especially for teh woosie club!

 

[Gafferbill]

............…well the roads have been updated with the M1/M6 and M40 all of which used virgin open countryside to improve connections between London and Birmingham.
The old A41/A34 and A5 whilst still there are no longer major routes.

Why do some people think the railways should remain in the Victorian era when the UK population was only 27.5 million (1850)
.............now 61 million?

 

[RogerL]

............…well the roads have been updated with the M1/M6 and M40 all of which used virgin open countryside to improve connections between London and Birmingham.
The old A41/A34 and A5 whilst still there are no longer major routes.

Why do some people think the railways should remain in the Victorian era when the UK population was only 27.5 million (1850)

.............now 61 million?

Perhaps we should go back to a 27 million population, then we wouldn't need to keep using the finite resource of land for transport purposes.
The Victorian railways speeded thing up from the horse-drawn age - HS2 is only a small step compared to 1960s although the politicians make it look a bigger step because they deliberately slowed trains down before privatisation to make punctuality statistics better.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

............…well the roads have been updated with the M1/M6 and M40 all of which used virgin open countryside to improve connections between London and Birmingham.
The old A41/A34 and A5 whilst still there are no longer major routes.

Why do some people think the railways should remain in the Victorian era when the UK population was only 27.5 million (1850)
.............now 61 million?

Perhaps because most of those 61,000000 want roads and not railways.

 

[Gafferbill]

Perhaps we should go back to a 27 million population, then we wouldn't need to keep using the finite resource of land for transport purposes.

..........good idea but I am not volunteering to reduce numbers by shuffling off just yet

Perhaps because most of those 61,000000 want roads and not railways.

........if that were true then the trains would all be running empty, the operating companies would be bankrupt and Network Rail would be closing lines.

 

[Surfer]

We would probably use the railways a lot more if the prices were lower. At the moment for the two of us to travel into London by train is a no brainer against the cost of using the car with the car being quicker, cheaper, warmer and more comfortable. If you have a family, the car is definitely the cheaper option. Secondly you can drive direct to your destination as opposed to catching other trains, busses or even a taxi

 

[Gabsgrandad]

So what percentage of the population do you reckon ever ride on a train, 10% would be 6,000000 I reckon that's alot higher than reality So it leaves 50+millions who never touch a train.
PS Aren't the government still paying rather large subsidies to most rail companies?

 

[Shirker]

Perhaps we should go back to a 27 million population, then we wouldn't need to keep using the finite resource of land for transport purposes.

..........good idea but I am not volunteering to reduce numbers by shuffling off just yet

Perhaps because most of those 61,000000 want roads and not railways.

........if that were true then the trains would all be running empty, the operating companies would be bankrupt and Network Rail would be closing lines.

Hmm, like the trains that do run largely empty outside peak hours, or the government giving big subsidies to the operators...?
Being pernickety, Gabsgrandad is correct, out of 61 million people the majority do use roads rather than rail, but we need both to be continually improved rather than one or the other.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I'm with GafferBill on this one.
Personally I don't want to see even more of the countryside covered in tarmac and concrete. The width of a motorway is three times wider than a double track mainline. The transport system of this small country is crap with millions of lorries, nose to tail, choking up the roads as well as our lungs. Our railways, the first in the world, were started in the 1830s and were built following the old tram ways or stage coach roads skirting around fields or the landed gentry's lands. This is mainly our legacy today because the rail system has been neglected since the end of the war and our last mainline was built in 1899.
Even Hitler left a legacy of an excellent rail infrastructure as well as the autobahns. The French continued investing in their railways as well as the canal system. This is why you hear people from this country bleating how good the French/German road/rail system is yet complain when all political parties agree that it's now time to play catch up, albeit about 40 years later. Surprisingly even the LibWets voted for it so I smell a rat. Or should that be deisel fumes

I'm no Europhile, infact just the opposite, but most European countries now have high speed mainlines and most running at a profit. The Chinese are building high speed lines and soon you'll be able to get a train from this country to most in Europe and even Asia. That is providing the Luddites don't stop it

About 1992 I paid £112 for a return from Calais to Avignon with a couchette which consisted of a pillow and blanket. The journey overnight took around 11 hours. This week EuroStar are advertising their summer service. The same journey, only from London, 20 years later, is £109 and takes 5 hours.
I've finished for the time being so I'll just go and get my anorak and wish you all goodnight

http://www.bahnprojekt-stuttgart-ulm.de/en-gb/default.aspx

 

[Parksy]

.................Even Hitler left a legacy of an excellent rail infrastructure as well as the autobahns. The French continued investing in their railways as well as the canal system. This is why you hear people from this country bleating how good the French/German road/rail system is yet complain when all political parties agree that it's now time to play catch up, albeit about 40 years later. Surprisingly even the LibWets voted for it so I smell a rat. Or should that be deisel fumes

I'm no Europhile, infact just the opposite, but most European countries now have high speed mainlines and most running at a profit.

Northern Europe especially Germany and France largely has Britain to thank for their modern present day railway systems.
This was because from late 1943 onwards the 2nd Tactical Air Force carried out a policy of interdiction bombing that targeted French and later German railways and by the end of the war in Europe the existing rail systems were laid waste.
A new modern rail network was built throughout northern Europe after the 2nd TAF had done the extensive demolition work on the old antiquated French one and the slightly more modern German one.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

.................Even Hitler left a legacy of an excellent rail infrastructure as well as the autobahns. The French continued investing in their railways as well as the canal system. This is why you hear people from this country bleating how good the French/German road/rail system is yet complain when all political parties agree that it's now time to play catch up, albeit about 40 years later. Surprisingly even the LibWets voted for it so I smell a rat. Or should that be deisel fumes

I'm no Europhile, infact just the opposite, but most European countries now have high speed mainlines and most running at a profit.

Northern Europe especially Germany and France largely has Britain to thank for their modern present day railway systems.
This was because from late 1943 onwards the 2nd Tactical Air Force carried out a policy of interdiction bombing that targeted French and later German railways and by the end of the war in Europe the existing rail systems were laid waste.
A new modern rail network was built throughout northern Europe after the 2nd TAF had done the extensive demolition work on the old antiquated French one and the slightly more modern German one.

I'm not disputing that those countries railways weren't targetted or extensively damaged during the war, especially the German infrastructure like marshalling yards and motive power depots, but it was nowhere obliterated and it got repaired. The lines are still there and the French got away lightly compared to the Germans due to the risk of French citizens if they bombed railway stations for example.
The French were the first to build a new high speed line which wasn't started until the 70s and I believe it came into service about 1981. It wasn't until after this that other European countries followed suit. Germany, Holland, Italy and now Spain have their own high speed rail. It isn't finished yet though as you can see from the link I posted and France are still building more lines to link up with French cities. I suppose we could save money and stay as we are and become a living museum, a bit like the Black Country museum only on a grander scale

We have the high speed link to the continent and that's all we will need to bring the tourists to Timewarp Britain

 

[RogerL]

What good are railways that don't go where you want? They can't do anything that airlines can do. They don't go cross-country and you can't take a caravan !!!
The government should invest heavily in super broadband then business users wouldn't need to go anywhere - the railways have long since been irrelevant for leisure users.
If this country stopped being so damned London-centric and spread out across the whole country we wouldn't need high-speed anything to London.