Newbie tower - VW Caddy?

[colvmbo]

Hi All,

I just purchased a food trailer (1300kg gvw) that lives 40 miles up the motor way from my home. The trailer would then be towed a couple of miles across town to the site from which we trade. At the end of the day we will do the reverse trip.

I was advised that diesels make much better tow cars and cost less long term. After looking around for options (estate or van), I was horrified to read how many people were having problems with DPF and DMF and how much it cost them to put right.

My budget is £7k and I'd like someone that is happy towing the trailer but also to be used a a general family car day to day without the associated costs of a big engine petrol. It seems that the VW Passat ticks the boxes but I just don;t know if the 110bhp 1.9 would be underpowered (maybe not an issue given it's only 2 miles across town that i'll be towing 90% of the time) or if the 140bhp 2.0 tdo is more appropriate?

Also confused over the CR or PD engines. I'm not to fussed about speed or engine noise but I am terrified at the prospect of a costly repair associated with modern diesels. Does anyone know which of the 2 engine types are more reliable?

PS, if anyone has any experience of towing with a VW caddy, id love to know your thoughts too.

Many thanks

 

[intransient1]

Hi Colvmbo,
Most diesel engine are fine if treated correctly, dpf problems are usually caused by not following simple cures.
If you only do short trips then at least once a week take the vehicle out for a run, 10 to 20 miles at a speed of 40 mph will usually clear the dpf buildup.
Also look at used ssangyong vehicles, good towing capacity with cheap used prices.

 

[colvmbo]

Cheers for this...

If I were to go for a petrol car, what sort of power and engine size do you think I'd need as a minimum to pull a 1300kg trailer?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Power and size tend to be irrelevant these days. You need to check what a specific car is permitted/rated to tow, generally given on the V5. This could be more than the kerb weight of the car, but for high-sided trailers the recommendations is 85% of the kerb weight if permitted within the rating of the car. Also you cannot tow more than a gross train weight of 3.5 tonnes unless you have that category on your driving licence.

 

[colvmbo]

Hi there,

My license dates from 1995 so I think I can tow up to 7.5 (not that I'd want to go anywhere near that)

I'm in the market for a tow car and haven't a clue what to get. I think an estate powerful enough to pull a trailer weighing 1300kg comfortably. But also not so juicy to make it more economical to have a second car as a runaround.

Given that I'd only be towing 2 miles twice a day, I'm wondering if a petrol is a better option? And what options there may be for that.

 

[colvmbo]

Just really put off diesels for the repair costs associated with EGR, Injectors, DMF, DPF etc

 

[seth1]

PD=pump duse.Unit injection were the actuation of the injector is controlled by a cam in the vw case, or hydraulically in other cases.This operation develops the fuel pressure,25000psi in the vw case.The injectors are feed by a low pressure gear pump,the throttle is controlled by a solinoid on top of the injector.
CR=common rail,Injectors with no mechanical actuation just feed of a high pressure pump that pumps pressure.The pressure is controlled by an M prop on the inlet side of the hp pump and chokes it.Throttle still controlled by solinoid or piezo action on top of injector.1800 bar on demand.
PD=much more reliable,early 2litre CR were rubbish.
Its also very doubtful that you would end up with a 110hp 1.9 as that engine is fitted with a Bosch vp44 fuel injection pump,very very old now.They are not around really now.
If it was me i,d go for a 1.9pd in what ever hp.They all go like stink and all produce the same torque and just cap the hp.The 1.9 is the better engine,bombproof.

 

[colvmbo]

Thanks so much for this. I wonder why they cap the HP. Never did get the difference between torque and bhp but by the sound of things it's the torque that counts.

Do they make a 2.0 PD engine or is it that the 1.9 is better, more reliable anyway?

Any ideas on what year to look at?

 

[seth1]

The first of the 2litre was pd.The latest a CR.A lot of problems with oil pump failure due to the crank gear being poor quality,injector problems and water issues.These were put right by vw though under a campayne.I would think that even the oldest passats now would all be pd and all 1.9.As said my choice would be either a late 2litre CR or late 1.9pd.There are a couple of vw expects with more expertise than me on here who no doubt will help you.

 

[colvmbo]

So when you say late 1.9..what year is that and when you say late 2 CR,..what year would that be..

By the way, you mentioned some VW experts on here. Any ideas on how I can nail down with them what 'specific' Passat models are the ones I should be looking at (the range is vast in 1.9 and 2's)

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Colvmbo,

I think you have asked some very astute questions. The phrase 'horses for courses' seems to very appropriate in this case.

Normally for caravan towing, I would suggest considering a Diesel, because of their inherent good torque at low engine speeds. They also tend to offer better fuel economy than similarly specified petrol vehicles especially under heavy duties such as towing. However Caravans tend to be used on longer journeys than you are proposing, and the issues of DPF's are less likely to affect them, because the engines and exhausts have the opportunity to get up to full working temperatures.

Considering your proposed usage of short distance through a town and I assume that probably means quite a lot of stop start driving and lowish speeds, I would be very concerned that a diesel engine simply would not get up to full working temperature for long enough to keep the DPF working properly.

Also bearing in mind the low overall speeds you are likely to achieve, you don't need large horsepower engines. So given your specific operational needs, I think a petrol engined vehicle would probably be more than adequate. There are modern vehicles with relative small petrol engines that can produce enough torque to get your trailer moving and keep up with town traffic. The other advantage of looking at a smaller engine, it will need to work slightly harder, which means it will get up to a working temperature quicker.

Now to size of vehicle. For many years now all new cars sold in the UK must have their capacity to pull a trailer listed as part of their specification: The Maximum Braked Trailer Weight. (MBTW) Even though this is a practical figure for hill starts, this figure must never be exceeded. In many case the MBTW may exceed the tow vehicles Mass in Service (MIS). However, caravans are big and boxy they represent a difficult trailer to tow, so the caravan industry have introduced some guidelines on weight matching for outfits. They establish a towing ratio as a percentage of the cars MIS :- 100 x (MTPLM/MIS) = Towing ratio percentage

The caravan industry advice is that when choosing a car and caravan combination, novice towers should try to keep the MTPLM to less than 85% of the MIS. And only as towing experience is gained the driver may consider outfits approaching but not exceeding 100%. All this is of course subject to the tow vehicles specification for MBTW.

Now this makes sense for caravans because in the UK they are towed over significant distances involving open roads, motorways etc at speeds up to 60mph. It is an inherent characteristic of every towed caravan that as the speed increases it becomes more prone to instability. Each outfit is unique and the conditions where it will become unstable and result in an incident are different so there is no magic safe speed or weight ratio except zero. That being said a well matched and trimmed outfit should be Ok in the hands of a sensible driver.

To minimise the risk of instability or loss of control, it is always good sense to keep the trailers weight as small as possible . Now on the face of it, your proposed trailer has many of the same characteristics of a caravan, big and boxy, but as you are not using it at high speed, therefore I don't think the caravan industries advice is entirely applicable:- I think that given your low speeds you might find it is quite manageable to tow above 85% ratio and even as high as 100% or more provided the vehicle specification allows it.

There are plenty of normal cars quite capable of towing 1300Kg, But thinking of multi role functionality (like trips to the cash and carry to restock the catering van, you might consider something like a smaller type van/people carrier. (for example Peugeot Partner, Citroen Berlingo, Fiat Doblo etc Skoda Yeti, VW Caddy or Tiguan etc.)

One last point. Doing such short start stop journeys in towns is the worst possible conditions for the clutch especially when towing. I seriously suggest you consider looking at an automatic gearbox with fluid torque converter. This will be much easier to drive, it will match the engine to load and road speed better and cost less in clutch replacements. The short journeys you are doing will means the autos loss of fuel efficiency will be hardly noticeable.

 

[colvmbo]

Hi Prof John...sounds like you know an awful lots about vehicles and towing =)

I'd essentially be driving 40 miles up the motorway, collect my 1300kg trailer, tow it 2 miles across town and at the end of the day do the reverse.

1st option is to buy a capable estate car (VW Passat) that I could use for business and pleasure

2nd option is to have two vehicles (a caddy for work and a small car as a family run around)

For work I had always only really considered a Diesels (maybe the run up the motorway before and after towing would resolve any potential issues with the DPF?) and be more economical on fuel in the long run? But I'm not sure about all of the other common issues people seem to report with diesels (DMF, EGR Valve, Turbo, Injectors etc etc) After all I'd be going for a used vehicle with around 60k on the clock (a costly repair soon after purchase would be quite a slap on the wallet).

I never really considered an auto though. Is it always better on the clutch to tow with an auto? And what is the fluid torque converter?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Prof John...sounds like you know an awful lots about vehicles and towing =)

I'd essentially be driving 40 miles up the motorway, collect my 1300kg trailer, tow it 2 miles across town and at the end of the day do the reverse.

1st option is to buy a capable estate car (VW Passat) that I could use for business and pleasure

2nd option is to have two vehicles (a caddy for work and a small car as a family run around)

For work I had always only really considered a Diesels (maybe the run up the motorway before and after towing would resolve any potential issues with the DPF?) and be more economical on fuel in the long run? But I'm not sure about all of the other common issues people seem to report with diesels (DMF, EGR Valve, Turbo, Injectors etc etc) After all I'd be going for a used vehicle with around 60k on the clock (a costly repair soon after purchase would be quite a slap on the wallet).

I never really considered an auto though. Is it always better on the clutch to tow with an auto? And what is the fluid torque converter?

Hello again,
I had misinterpreted your first post, I took it to mean you were getting a trailer that was 40 miles away, not that you lived 40 miles from where it will be used, so yes that does change the advice, as the too and from work journeys should sort out any DPF issues.

The EGR Turbo's and injectors are not massively unreliable, Yes you hear horror stories, but don't forget that is the nature of forums, you don't get to know about the many more examples that perform quite satisfactorily. But if they do go wrong they can be expensive to repair or replace. Prevention is always better than cure so the best strategy is keep the vehicle properly maintained, especially the oils which are more important than many people realise. Given a proper regime I don't think you need to loose sleep about them. So with the clarified information about distances, I would certainly now recommend a diesel for your circumstances.

Automatics, Yes I do think that towing is made much easier by using an automatic. I think you will find that most caravanners who have changed from manuals to Auto's would not want to change back. Control whilst maneuvering is much easier, and less stressful for both the driver and the car.

I referred to a fluid torque converter. This was the traditional system to connect the engine to an automatic gear box. It replaces the clutch in manuals, and because it uses fluid to couple the engine power to gear box it has a much longer life than a conventional clutch. The system endows the car with a very smooth pull away from standstill and it helps to prevent undue strain put on the engine especially when towing. This fluid coupling tends to waste some power from the engine which is one of the main reasons that Auto's are generally less economical than manuals.

In recent years there has been some development of gearboxes, and several manufactures now use gear boxes with more than one clutch - usually two. These boxes allow for very fast gear changes, as the next gear you want has already been selected a synchronised so change can happen in about a quarter of a second. VW's version of this is called the Direct Select Gearbox or DSG. I have one of these on a 2006 Passat estate SEL 170ps with DPF. Now, I don't tow with this vehicle (no tow bar on it), so I can't comment on its towing characteristics, but I can tell you in this version the gear box is controlled by an computer which effectively turns it into an automatic. It is quite impressive, and on move gear changes are very slick, except when moving off, when it often has a bit of a jerk, I assume as the first clutch bites - which seems to be common issue with the VW DSG. For that reason I do not know how well it will pull away with trailer.

So with that issue in mind I suggest if you do go for an automatic the smoother fluid torque converter system to go for at the moment. Having said that plenty of people mange with manuals, and as you will be gaining a lot of towing experience every day you might manage.

One or two vehicles? that is choice only you can make. As you will be running a business, you do need to look very carefully into the taxman's interpretation of business vs domestic usage. That might have a significant bearing on whether to keep the domestic use entirely separate from business. I know one business owner who used his own car to tow a large box trailer used for work. Ultimately it was more tax effective to change the trailer for a dedicated van.

Good luck