Norway
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Mel
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The trauma of those young people on the Island is unimaginable. Thoughts and prayers for them, their families and the people of Oslo.
mel
mel
I have enormous sympathy for the people of Norway.
The loss of one young life for any reason is incredibly difficult to come to terms with, but so many by a man by all accounts who was cool and very calculating is so meaningless and dreadful.
The man was not mad, he was fully aware of what he was doing, the only thing that might be said is he was deluded.
whilst I know this was not a Scout Camp but as a Scout Leader, I knew the onus of responsibility on camp organisers, so I also feel for the leaders of this camp who must be overwhelmed with a feeling of shock and guilt, even though they are innocent of any crime, and could not have realistically done anything to prevent it.
There will be the usual cries that the Police and authorities failed to stop it, but lets get the balance right, the police are not to blame for the actions of this man, they did not pull the trigger or set off the bomb. They can only react in situations like this, rarely can they be 100% proactive.
I have seven wishes and I hope you can all share the same sentiments with me:-
The loss of one young life for any reason is incredibly difficult to come to terms with, but so many by a man by all accounts who was cool and very calculating is so meaningless and dreadful.
The man was not mad, he was fully aware of what he was doing, the only thing that might be said is he was deluded.
whilst I know this was not a Scout Camp but as a Scout Leader, I knew the onus of responsibility on camp organisers, so I also feel for the leaders of this camp who must be overwhelmed with a feeling of shock and guilt, even though they are innocent of any crime, and could not have realistically done anything to prevent it.
There will be the usual cries that the Police and authorities failed to stop it, but lets get the balance right, the police are not to blame for the actions of this man, they did not pull the trigger or set off the bomb. They can only react in situations like this, rarely can they be 100% proactive.
I have seven wishes and I hope you can all share the same sentiments with me:-
- May all the lost souls rest in peace.
- May all those injured physically and mentally make a good recovery and find the support they need.
- May all families and friends find ways to cope with their losses.
- May those who were trusted with the care of those young people find solace and courage to carry on.
- May those now trusted with the care and counselling find the best ways to help everyone through.
- May those charged with finding out all the facts and handling the criminal procedures be thorough and and professional, so that the same risk can be avoided in the future.
- May these people and events never be forgotten.
Perhaps in his twisted mind he thought he was saving the people of Norway from Islam or the Al Qaeda. I guess you play with terrorism, you get more terrorism, but it is not nice when it happens to you!
So what was REALLY going on on Utoya Island?
Here's a report from Norway's online news site, Politisk.
It is dated last Thursday, 21st July ... the day before the massacre at Utoya.
The picture is of Norwegian Foreign Minister Gahre-Store on a visit to the AUF (Workers' Youth League) 'campers' at Utoya. After being escorted around the camp by AUF leader Eskil Pedersen, the campers demand a boycott of Israel and that Norway recognize the Palestinian state.
To which the minister reportedly replied, to cheers from the 'campers': The Palestinians must have their own state, the occupation must end, the wall must be demolished and it must happen now.
Whilst this doesn't change the fact that this was a monstrous slaughter of innocent kids, one has to ask who is this Pederson guy and to what lengths has his Workers Youth League gone to incite impressionable kids with such hatred of Israel fuelled by lies and propaganda about deprivation in Gaza?
It is reported that one of the main activities on Utoya last week was "Break the Blockade" games. Here's a mock Palestinian aid boat bearing the sign Opphev Blokkaden Gaza - Unlock the Gaza Blockade.
So what was REALLY going on on Utoya Island?
Here's a report from Norway's online news site, Politisk.
It is dated last Thursday, 21st July ... the day before the massacre at Utoya.
The picture is of Norwegian Foreign Minister Gahre-Store on a visit to the AUF (Workers' Youth League) 'campers' at Utoya. After being escorted around the camp by AUF leader Eskil Pedersen, the campers demand a boycott of Israel and that Norway recognize the Palestinian state.
To which the minister reportedly replied, to cheers from the 'campers': The Palestinians must have their own state, the occupation must end, the wall must be demolished and it must happen now.
Whilst this doesn't change the fact that this was a monstrous slaughter of innocent kids, one has to ask who is this Pederson guy and to what lengths has his Workers Youth League gone to incite impressionable kids with such hatred of Israel fuelled by lies and propaganda about deprivation in Gaza?
It is reported that one of the main activities on Utoya last week was "Break the Blockade" games. Here's a mock Palestinian aid boat bearing the sign Opphev Blokkaden Gaza - Unlock the Gaza Blockade.
That's interesting Surfer.
I watch the BBC news and unsurprisingly, probably due to their left wing bias and political correctness, they never gave out that information apart from it was a political camp run by the Labour Party.
I couldn't understand how, by killing so many of his own people, he was helping solve the problem of the mass immigration of muslims to Europe. It's just wasted young lives because nothing will stop the immigration or radical Islam and if anyone thinks Christianity and Islam can live peacefully side by side they are deluded. Unfortunately we have gone past the point of no return.
I watch the BBC news and unsurprisingly, probably due to their left wing bias and political correctness, they never gave out that information apart from it was a political camp run by the Labour Party.
I couldn't understand how, by killing so many of his own people, he was helping solve the problem of the mass immigration of muslims to Europe. It's just wasted young lives because nothing will stop the immigration or radical Islam and if anyone thinks Christianity and Islam can live peacefully side by side they are deluded. Unfortunately we have gone past the point of no return.
How about for once sticking to the topic! and leaving ones political diarrhea where it belongs!As this is about the loss of so many young lives at the hands of yet another deranged political nutter.
RIP. Kids
RIP. Kids
I kind of felt Surfer and LB put a pretty good reason behind the Loonies behaviour. He's an out and out hater of ordinary people and is on a "quest".JonnyG said:
Hardly the squits.
What does come out is how Norway has a brilliant Post Traumatic Stress management infrastructure to help all those directly or indirectly affected by this tragedy. We don't have anything like it here in the UK.
Dustydog said:
That's Gio for you. He's my personal stalker ... heh! heh! heh!
He comes out of the woodwork at dusk
In his pathetic continual attempt to score brownie points over me by emotively mentioning kids he forgot that there were other people who died needlessly at the hands of the lunatic but that's Gio for you. He needs to take that bag off his head even at the risk he might scare children
i do not know what makes someone believe they have the right to end the lives of others and cause untold misery as a consequence of their actions.All those young lives gone in an instant. and the terror experienced by the survivors. Perhaps there will be some explanation made to the families involved. WHY??? All our thoughts and sympathy is extended to all the families touched by this senseless loss of life.
Thursdays Child
Thursdays Child
N
in fact this line by surfer would be funny given different circumstances "
"I guess you play with terrorism, you get more terrorism, but it is not nice when it happens to you"
At it applies more so to us in the west at a much higher political level than it ever could at a youth get together be it left or right wing.
And as for you personally,get over yourself, you seem to repeat the same lines when ever one of my posts follows yours,Its inevitable to happen given i dont agree with Right wing view points or poorly propagandized remarks.
Those kids had a notion a dream of a better world where everyone got on,where dialog and not bullets or bombs where the only way!Most people share that view,
Surfer..Palestine is no different to Israel, both were terrorist,or have you forgotten how many British soldiers were killed by Isrealies in 1947! and your remarks concerning non poverty their or the hardship normal Palestinians face is ridiculous.
Me I was their in 1982, on my way to south Africa i was in south Africa till1985, helped in Bosnia too.
Forgive me if i found yours and LB remarks utterly useless and small minded,but it is those remarks by grumpy old men,that keep stopping the youths of today making a better world.not just selfishly for themselves but for everybody!
Give it a rest LB, my remarks where aimed at both you and in the first instance at surfer,who both kindly somehow where able to change the context of the sad events from an issue of a nutty right wing head case,and go straight on to focusing more on propagandizing about the inevitability of such events not because right wing nutters exists,but because,in your case these things are inevitable solely because of the exsistance of ISLAM,and in surfers case these left wing political parties feed the youngsters,"LIES"Lord Braykewynde said:Dustydog said:
That's Gio for you. He's my personal stalker ... heh! heh! heh!
He comes out of the woodwork at dusk
In his pathetic continual attempt to score brownie points over me by emotively mentioning kids he forgot that there were other people who died needlessly at the hands of the lunatic but that's Gio for you. He needs to take that bag off his head even at the risk he might scare children
in fact this line by surfer would be funny given different circumstances "
"I guess you play with terrorism, you get more terrorism, but it is not nice when it happens to you"
At it applies more so to us in the west at a much higher political level than it ever could at a youth get together be it left or right wing.
And as for you personally,get over yourself, you seem to repeat the same lines when ever one of my posts follows yours,Its inevitable to happen given i dont agree with Right wing view points or poorly propagandized remarks.
Those kids had a notion a dream of a better world where everyone got on,where dialog and not bullets or bombs where the only way!Most people share that view,
Surfer..Palestine is no different to Israel, both were terrorist,or have you forgotten how many British soldiers were killed by Isrealies in 1947! and your remarks concerning non poverty their or the hardship normal Palestinians face is ridiculous.
Me I was their in 1982, on my way to south Africa i was in south Africa till1985, helped in Bosnia too.
Forgive me if i found yours and LB remarks utterly useless and small minded,but it is those remarks by grumpy old men,that keep stopping the youths of today making a better world.not just selfishly for themselves but for everybody!
I experienced a long terrorist war when in Africa and many people killed as a result. Interogation of terrorists gives you an insight into how their minds work and then you understand their motives for this type of killing and you apply the concept elsewhere as all terrorists think the same way.
The killer's fear in hs twisted mind was obviously that the political Norwegian youth were being indoctrinated and would become terrorists at some point in the future so he had to kill them. Obviously Johnny G you were never conscripted into the SA defence force to serve on the SWA border othewise you will know exactly what I am talking about.
This still does not detract from the horrific killings, but does give a possible small insight on the behind the scenes issues involving this fanatic as in thsi type of killing we need to look beyond the boundaries.
The killer's fear in hs twisted mind was obviously that the political Norwegian youth were being indoctrinated and would become terrorists at some point in the future so he had to kill them. Obviously Johnny G you were never conscripted into the SA defence force to serve on the SWA border othewise you will know exactly what I am talking about.
This still does not detract from the horrific killings, but does give a possible small insight on the behind the scenes issues involving this fanatic as in thsi type of killing we need to look beyond the boundaries.
JonnyG said:
(1) First of all I like your word 'propagandizing' and so do you, you've used it twice
In Surfers defence there is photographic evidence that children are being politicised and being taught to detest Israel. This seems a strange way to make 'a better world'.
(2) Yes most people would like a peaceful world where killing doesn't exist but you need to get out more from this forum to get people to learn your teachings and spread your word. I would start with North Africa and after you've converted them to peaceful living move on down to the Middle East. Finally try the hardest task of all, getting the Taliban to lay down their arms. Think of the prestige if you manage this monumental task. Even your hero, Cleggover, might make you a special emmisary to Northern Ireland to work miracles. No Gio, you live in a deluded world if you believe countries boycotting Israel will solve that problem.
(3) At last I agree with you on one point Gio. There were a lot of British servicemen killed in Palestine but that's as far as the agreement goes. Even more were killed in France over the centuries fighting the French and despots like Napoleon. More still were killed in two world wars fighting more despotism. Do you mean to say we should be anti-French, German, Italian etc.
Britain has fought probably more countries in the world than anyone else but times have moved on since then so spouting anti-Jewish propaganda serves no purpose. Believe me, it doesn't work. Hitler tried it and Israel has every right to live a peaceful existence. How she goes about it is another matter and I don't agree with building new settlements. The Jews have lived in this country in peaceful harmony since the middle ages and haven't tried to convert the indigenous population or bomb us into their way of living. The Jews have every right to self-determination in their own homeland just as the Palestians have but I'm afraid some of your Palestian friends have no intention of living in peace. Ask Mahmoud Ahmadhinejad who funds and arms them and only has one aim, the total destruction of Israel. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14341089
(4) Your last statement is laughable but nothing more than I've come to expect
You dont actually understand do you!surfer.you were the terrorists in south Africa! I left in 85 remember the Riots ! Which the west only partly screened.So how on earth you can feel you understand the minds of terrorist! when to those you called terrorist, you were the terrorist the invader the oppressor! And they were freedom fighters,And to you and many others you cannot fathom that notion so looking beyond boundaries as you say is pointless,till you really understand the other persons point of view.Surfer said:
Thankfully those type of youth camps, which are widely spread all over the western world in one guise or another are nothing new and to suggest in doctrine towards one ethos or another is what takes place at these places as you have clearly shows a real lack of knowledge on the topic! Not surprising really as you must have lived in SA a long time and aparty to their own indoctrinating ways of life.
JonnyG said:
My war was in Rhodesia before it became Zimbabwe and look at it now! You must be a very sad person as how can you call a person who terrorises and multilates people in the same ethnic group a freedom fighter. How can you call a person who bombs and kills people in his own ethnic group a freedom fighter? Are you talking about the same people who abducted young children from schools, brain washed them and put a AK47 in their hands to kill people indiscriminately a freedom fighter? Now we all know what sort of person you really are however I will be saying no more on thsi subject!
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