Nose weight and spare tyre Adria 542dk

[Newtonian]

I'm a season into caravanning and still can't figure out the spare tyre situation.

I have an Adria 542dk which has a specific holder for the spare tyre in the front locker.

However if I have that in the nose the nose weight is about 110kg. Without any clever balancing of other items.


I can have a maximum of 100kg on nose.

So far I have stuck it in the caravan which works but marked the cupboard as it moved a little.

I have also stuck it under the bunk beds which is a perfect spot but it moved a little too much for my liking and ended up close to the boiler and conscious about damage.

What is everyone else doing with the spare..
I'd like to avoid having to keep moving it around and be a set and forget....or do people take spares nowadays with the availability of tyres and tyre companies

 

[otherclive]

Why do you have to move it. It should be possible to reduce from 110kg to 100kg by either moving somethings rearward towards or after the axle. At times I would just put my tool bag at the back or add some fluid to flush tank. Tins of dog food etc.

My last van had spare wheel in the locker and ones before that had underslung spares. In both cases I carried the spare in the door portal. It was safer when travelling abroad, moved weight rearwards and I never had a problem with it moving about.

 

[borderbilly]

My spare is under the fixed 🛌.

 

[Newtonian]

Why do you have to move it. It should be possible to reduce from 110kg to 100kg by either moving somethings rearward towards or after the axle. At times I would just put my tool bag at the back or add some fluid to flush tank. Tins of dog food etc.

My last van had spare wheel in the locker and ones before that had underslung spares. In both cases I carried the spare in the door portal. It was safer when travelling abroad, moved weight rearwards and I never had a problem with it moving about.

I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough despite reading loads about how much weight I can add at the back of the van.

All I see is don't add too much at the back to avoid snaking, so I'm too worried to put stuff in the back lockers apart from duvets and pillows

 

[Newtonian]

My spare is under the fixed 🛌.

How far back is the bed? I could stick mine under the bunk bed which is just slightly back of axl but nothing to fix it down

 

[otherclive]

I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough despite reading loads about how much weight I can add at the back of the van.

All I see is don't add too much at the back to avoid snaking, so I'm too worried to put stuff in the back lockers apart from duvets and pillows

My last van had most of its load behind the axle because Swift had kindly placed spare wheel, hot water tank, battery compartment, kitchen unit,fridge and lounge heater all in front of the axle to varying degrees. Most if it on the off side too except for the lounge heater. So I had little alternative but to load some stuff at the rear then at times to use water and tool bag etc.

It towed very well as a had a good weight ratio between the car and caravan. Two early 2 berths had rear kitchens and washrooms rear of the axle.

Some extra water in the flush tank if it’s a rear toilet would balance out your difference. And don’t let anyone say the free surface effect will be a problem. That’s baloney.

Try your van with some extra load just behind the axle to get your 100kg and see how it feels. But practically speaking unless your van and outfit is on the limits of stability 10kg is not going to affect it.

 

[Newtonian]

My last van had most of its load behind the axle because Swift had kindly placed spare wheel, hot water tank, battery compartment, kitchen unit,fridge and lounge heater all in front of the axle to varying degrees. Most if it on the off side too except for the lounge heater. So I had little alternative but to load some stuff at the rear then at times to use water and tool bag etc.

It towed very well as a had a good weight ratio between the car and caravan. Two early 2 berths had rear kitchens and washrooms rear of the axle.

Some extra water in the flush tank if it’s a rear toilet would balance out your difference. And don’t let anyone say the free surface effect will be a problem. That’s baloney.

Try your van with some extra load just behind the axle to get your 100kg and see how it feels. But practically speaking unless your van and outfit is on the limits of stability 10kg is not going to affect it.

The van is very stable it's an Adria which I believe has longer A frame and alko chassis as well as alko hitch stabiliser so no concerns maybe I'll experiment with it

 

[otherclive]

The van is very stable it's an Adria which I believe has longer A frame and alko chassis as well as alko hitch stabiliser so no concerns maybe I'll experiment with it

Now you are used to towing the caravan you will have gained a feel for how your outfit behaves. There are so many other things that affect stability that if you’ve got those right giving some extra kilos at the rear will allow you to judge its effect. I doubt you will notice any difference.
Welcome your feedback on how it goes.

 

[borderbilly]

How far back is the bed? I could stick mine under the bunk bed which is just slightly back of axl but nothing to fix it down

Just behind axle,rear wash room.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I would be mightily surprised if you actually need 100Kg of nose load. You only need enough nose load to keep the trailer stable when towing. The best method of creating or adjusting nose load is to keep the heaviest load items as close to the caravans axle, and if you need to reduce the NL, move some of the items from in front of the axle to behind the axle until the desired nose load is achieved.

For reasons that are too complicated to explain here, one has to question if it's been necessary to utilise the entire nose load capacity, and there is still concern about stability, that implies there could be some issue with the way the caravan has been loaded, and perhaps the owner needs to rethink what they are carrying?

It's common to find that a driver needs to adjust the nose load to bring it within the permitted range, and that would normally be achieved by rearranging the loading of the caravan. If the NL needs to be reduced, that is achieved by moving some items from in front of the axle to behind the axle. and vice versa to increase nose load.

It is rare that its necessary to add extra items to the rear of a caravan, normally it would be achieved by redistribution of the existing load, or even the removal of some unnecessary items.

Only "add" ( i.e. introducing some new weight) weight to the rear if you cannot move any items from the front of the van. And of course it can only allowed provided the new weight of the caravan is still under the caravans stated MTPLM limit.

There is a frequently misquoted adage "the tail wagging the dog" used to imply that rear end loading is going to make towing unstable often posted as a black and white statement. If it is taken to an extreme then yes it will tend take an outfit towards instability, but as always if its adjusted carefully most caravans can take some rear end loading without ill effects. As ever with such things make small changes not big ones.

If by chance the movement or addition of 20Kg to the rear is enough to destabilise towing, then I would suspect the caravan was already loaded poorly and on the verge of instability even before the loading change was made.

Review your packing list and see if you need to take everything you have on the list. If you do need everything, and you have no latitude to change the way you load the caravan, then sadly you've got the wrong caravan!

 

[Hutch]

I would be mightily surprised if you actually need 100Kg of nose load. You only need enough nose load to keep the trailer stable when towing. The best method of creating or adjusting nose load is to keep the heaviest load items as close to the caravans axle, and if you need to reduce the NL, move some of the items from in front of the axle to behind the axle until the desired nose load is achieved.

For reasons that are too complicated to explain here, one has to question if it's been necessary to utilise the entire nose load capacity, and there is still concern about stability, that implies there could be some issue with the way the caravan has been loaded, and perhaps the owner needs to rethink what they are carrying?

It's common to find that a driver needs to adjust the nose load to bring it within the permitted range, and that would normally be achieved by rearranging the loading of the caravan. If the NL needs to be reduced, that is achieved by moving some items from in front of the axle to behind the axle. and vice versa to increase nose load.

It is rare that its necessary to add extra items to the rear of a caravan, normally it would be achieved by redistribution of the existing load, or even the removal of some unnecessary items.

Only "add" ( i.e. introducing some new weight) weight to the rear if you cannot move any items from the front of the van. And of course it can only allowed provided the new weight of the caravan is still under the caravans stated MTPLM limit.

There is a frequently misquoted adage "the tail wagging the dog" used to imply that rear end loading is going to make towing unstable often posted as a black and white statement. If it is taken to an extreme then yes it will tend take an outfit towards instability, but as always if its adjusted carefully most caravans can take some rear end loading without ill effects. As ever with such things make small changes not big ones.

If by chance the movement or addition of 20Kg to the rear is enough to destabilise towing, then I would suspect the caravan was already loaded poorly and on the verge of instability even before the loading change was made.

Review your packing list and see if you need to take everything you have on the list. If you do need everything, and you have no latitude to change the way you load the caravan, then sadly you've got the wrong caravan!

Prof, you have the wrong end of the stick.
Newtonian the OP has the problem of getting the nose weight down from 110kg to100 kg.

 

[otherclive]

I would be mightily surprised if you actually need 100Kg of nose load. You only need enough nose load to keep the trailer stable when towing. The best method of creating or adjusting nose load is to keep the heaviest load items as close to the caravans axle, and if you need to reduce the NL, move some of the items from in front of the axle to behind the axle until the desired nose load is achieved.

For reasons that are too complicated to explain here, one has to question if it's been necessary to utilise the entire nose load capacity, and there is still concern about stability, that implies there could be some issue with the way the caravan has been loaded, and perhaps the owner needs to rethink what they are carrying?

It's common to find that a driver needs to adjust the nose load to bring it within the permitted range, and that would normally be achieved by rearranging the loading of the caravan. If the NL needs to be reduced, that is achieved by moving some items from in front of the axle to behind the axle. and vice versa to increase nose load.

It is rare that its necessary to add extra items to the rear of a caravan, normally it would be achieved by redistribution of the existing load, or even the removal of some unnecessary items.

Only "add" ( i.e. introducing some new weight) weight to the rear if you cannot move any items from the front of the van. And of course it can only allowed provided the new weight of the caravan is still under the caravans stated MTPLM limit.

There is a frequently misquoted adage "the tail wagging the dog" used to imply that rear end loading is going to make towing unstable often posted as a black and white statement. If it is taken to an extreme then yes it will tend take an outfit towards instability, but as always if its adjusted carefully most caravans can take some rear end loading without ill effects. As ever with such things make small changes not big ones.

If by chance the movement or addition of 20Kg to the rear is enough to destabilise towing, then I would suspect the caravan was already loaded poorly and on the verge of instability even before the loading change was made.

Review your packing list and see if you need to take everything you have on the list. If you do need everything, and you have no latitude to change the way you load the caravan, then sadly you've got the wrong caravan!

Prof
On my last caravan I had to get down from 115 kg to the cars 75kg max nose load on the towbar. I put the spare wheel from the front locker into the door portal but of course that was still in front of the axle. The awning was in the car and locating stuff on or close to the rear of the axle was very difficult I so far as it wasn’t that easy to restrain. So heavy items like drinks tin dog dried food and tins plus items like potatoes, food tins, etc went into a locker just behind the axle. Most clothes were put in hold-alls which would lay on the floor and could be moved as required. Aquaroll and waste container in the rear toilet. But even so there were times I had to add weight right at the rear to get noseweight down to 75kg. My situation wasn’t improved by the fact that I had removed a rear high level bunk to give more payload. But after a bit of a trial to keep within MTPLM and achieving noseweight it all came together. Must say my approach of weighing every item, weight discipline and a good spreadsheet made it a relatively straight forward task, and the caravan never gave me any concerns when being towed.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Prof, you have the wrong end of the stick.
Newtonian the OP has the problem of getting the nose weight down from 110kg to100 kg.

I was fully aware of Newtonians specific issue.

 

[Newtonian]

I would be mightily surprised if you actually need 100Kg of nose load. You only need enough nose load to keep the trailer stable when towing. The best method of creating or adjusting nose load is to keep the heaviest load items as close to the caravans axle, and if you need to reduce the NL, move some of the items from in front of the axle to behind the axle until the desired nose load is achieved.

For reasons that are too complicated to explain here, one has to question if it's been necessary to utilise the entire nose load capacity, and there is still concern about stability, that implies there could be some issue with the way the caravan has been loaded, and perhaps the owner needs to rethink what they are carrying?

It's common to find that a driver needs to adjust the nose load to bring it within the permitted range, and that would normally be achieved by rearranging the loading of the caravan. If the NL needs to be reduced, that is achieved by moving some items from in front of the axle to behind the axle. and vice versa to increase nose load.

It is rare that its necessary to add extra items to the rear of a caravan, normally it would be achieved by redistribution of the existing load, or even the removal of some unnecessary items.

Only "add" ( i.e. introducing some new weight) weight to the rear if you cannot move any items from the front of the van. And of course it can only allowed provided the new weight of the caravan is still under the caravans stated MTPLM limit.

There is a frequently misquoted adage "the tail wagging the dog" used to imply that rear end loading is going to make towing unstable often posted as a black and white statement. If it is taken to an extreme then yes it will tend take an outfit towards instability, but as always if its adjusted carefully most caravans can take some rear end loading without ill effects. As ever with such things make small changes not big ones.

If by chance the movement or addition of 20Kg to the rear is enough to destabilise towing, then I would suspect the caravan was already loaded poorly and on the verge of instability even before the loading change was made.

Review your packing list and see if you need to take everything you have on the list. If you do need everything, and you have no latitude to change the way you load the caravan, then sadly you've got the wrong caravan!

I don't need 100kg, I want to get to 100kg. The 5-7% rule is 91kg but I find it tows better closer to 100kg and 91kg with a tyre and gas bottle in the locker I would imagine isn't really possible, but will be having a play today.

My specific ask is how can I have the tyre and the gas bottle in the front locker as designed by Adria and not have the shift them all the time with still managing nose weight restrictions.

Not what I should and shouldn't carry.

But to be specific, apart from leisure battery, tyre and gas bottle the only other things I carry with any material weight is grey waste and water hog which are over axl and a porch awning which is over axl everything else is in the car. Out of my 180kg payload I probably use half that

 

[Newtonian]

Prof
On my last caravan I had to get down from 115 kg to the cars 75kg max nose load on the towbar. I put the spare wheel from the front locker into the door portal but of course that was still in front of the axle. The awning was in the car and locating stuff on or close to the rear of the axle was very difficult I so far as it wasn’t that easy to restrain. So heavy items like drinks tin dog dried food and tins plus items like potatoes, food tins, etc went into a locker just behind the axle. Most clothes were put in hold-alls which would lay on the floor and could be moved as required. Aquaroll and waste container in the rear toilet. But even so there were times I had to add weight right at the rear to get noseweight down to 75kg. My situation wasn’t improved by the fact that I had removed a rear high level bunk to give more payload. But after a bit of a trial to keep within MTPLM and achieving noseweight it all came together. Must say my approach of weighing every item, weight discipline and a good spreadsheet made it a relatively straight forward task, and the caravan never gave me any concerns when being towed.

Yeah I think caravan makers like to make things fun, battery compartment is near the front as well, so a leisure battery, tyre and gas bottle all near the front and I've even moved to gas lite bottles to help.

 

[RogerL]

I don't need 100kg, I want to get to 100kg. The 5-7% rule is 91kg but I find it tows better closer to 100kg and 91kg with a tyre and gas bottle in the locker I would imagine isn't really possible, but will be having a play today

5-7% isn't a "rule" - they're just convenient figures based on the maximum rating of the hitch itself.

 

[Newtonian]

5-7% isn't a "rule" - they're just convenient figures based on the maximum rating of the hitch itself.

Yeah rule maybe wrong work just guidance. Still doesn't help me they built a caravan to have a tyre in the front locker and then hit 120kg, still I have some time today to empty the van and see what's going on

 

[otherclive]

Yeah I think caravan makers like to make things fun, battery compartment is near the front as well, so a leisure battery, tyre and gas bottle all near the front and I've even moved to gas lite bottles to help.

Yes I went down to one Calorlite 6kg cylinder, Wheras for years I had carried two standard ones. But surprisingly I soon adjusted and never ran out of gas. I just used to ‘juggle” the cylinders between caravan and bbq.

 

[Newtonian]

Yes I went down to one Calorlite 6kg cylinder, Wheras for years I had carried two standard ones. But surprisingly I soon adjusted and never ran out of gas. I just used to ‘juggle” the cylinders between caravan and bbq.

Much better to carry and move, my only other thought is to change to a lighter smaller battery as I'm having trouble with this one anyway

 

[otherclive]

Much better to carry and move, my only other thought is to change to a lighter smaller battery as I'm having trouble with this one anyway

That’s an option if you have solar, or use EHU. General consensus is an 80 amp hr will power the mover and provide the caravan services when required. One member even uses a motorbike battery. Having had to remove a caravan four times from muddy or wet newly mown CLs the mover did the trick when the cars ‘ (4WD) wouldn’t. A very small battery could not have done the job. Even then I had to readjust load to take virtually all weight of the nosewheel. Copilot to the rear of the caravan . 😱

 

[ProfJohnL]

I don't need 100kg, I want to get to 100kg. The 5-7% rule is 91kg but I find it tows better closer to 100kg and 91kg with a tyre and gas bottle in the locker I would imagine isn't really possible, but will be having a play today.

My specific ask is how can I have the tyre and the gas bottle in the front locker as designed by Adria and not have the shift them all the time with still managing nose weight restrictions.

Not what I should and shouldn't carry.

But to be specific, apart from leisure battery, tyre and gas bottle the only other things I carry with any material weight is grey waste and water hog which are over axl and a porch awning which is over axl everything else is in the car. Out of my 180kg payload I probably use half that

If as you tell us you have not maxed out the payload capacity, and Adria caravans are not noted to be difficult to tow, then its ever more likely you have scope to move some heavier items towards the rear of the caravan to reduce the nose load.

It's worth remembering if any mass at a set distance in front of the axle is taken out of the caravan, the nose load will be reduced. But if that same mass is moved to the same distance behind the axle will have twice the effect on the nose load. So moving items can have a more effect than removing them completely.

Professionally I have towed many different outfits, and as part of the towing processes I always had to check the nose load and trim it accordingly. I never found a caravan that needed to use the whole nose load capacity to achieve a comfortable and safe towing characteristics, which is why I'm surprised by your own experience.

With some outfits I was collecting brand new caravans from the manufacturer for testing purposes, Many of these ex factory vans had poor nose loads, becasue they were often not fully kitted out like they would be when being used. We had to compensate for this so we always took some water containers, bungee's and ties so that if necessary I could fill some containers and use them as ballast to achieve a working nose load. Occasionally I had to add water ballast to the rear of a caravan to reduce an excessive nose load.

 

[Newtonian]

That’s an option if you have solar, or use EHU. General consensus is an 80 amp hr will power the mover and provide the caravan services when required. One member even uses a motorbike battery. Having had to remove a caravan four times from muddy or wet newly mown CLs the mover did the trick when the cars ‘ (4WD) wouldn’t. A very small battery could not have done the job. Even then I had to readjust load to take virtually all weight of the nosewheel. Copilot to the rear of the caravan . 😱

I checked today and we have a 95amp hour battery, which seems overkill as we never use the motor mover apart from a little straighting up and always on ehu

If as you tell us you have not maxed out the payload capacity, and Adria caravans are not noted to be difficult to tow, then its ever more likely you have scope to move some heavier items towards the rear of the caravan to reduce the nose load.

It's worth remembering if any mass at a set distance in front of the axle is taken out of the caravan, the nose load will be reduced. But if that same mass is moved to the same distance behind the axle will have twice the effect on the nose load. So moving items can have a more effect than removing them completely.

Professionally I have towed many different outfits, and as part of the towing processes I always had to check the nose load and trim it accordingly. I never found a caravan that needed to use the whole nose load capacity to achieve a comfortable and safe towing characteristics, which is why I'm surprised by your own experience.

With some outfits I was collecting brand new caravans from the manufacturer for testing purposes, Many of these ex factory vans had poor nose loads, becasue they were often not fully kitted out like they would be when being used. We had to compensate for this so we always took some water containers, bungee's and ties so that if necessary I could fill some containers and use them as ballast to achieve a working nose load. Occasionally I had to add water ballast to the rear of a caravan to reduce an excessive nose load.

So my starting nose weight with everything stripped out and the tyre and the gas bottle in the front was 110kg

With some light bits at the very back locker on ground (awning carpet washing line) and then one heavier item (electrical cable)

Then porch awning just behind axl (8kg) and tool bag (10kg) and the wheel lock and alko lock.

I then put the water but with water in just behind the axl and kept filling to get to 95kg nose weight, ended up with about 10kg of water.

So took a fair few hours but managed it

I think I have about 5kg at the very back of the caravan which I assume isn't too bad and not likely to cause snaking?

 

[otherclive]

I checked today and we have a 95amp hour battery, which seems overkill as we never use the motor mover apart from a little straighting up and always on ehu

So my starting nose weight with everything stripped out and the tyre and the gas bottle in the front was 110kg

With some light bits at the very back locker on ground (awning carpet washing line) and then one heavier item (electrical cable)

Then porch awning just behind axl (8kg) and tool bag (10kg) and the wheel lock and alko lock.

I then put the water but with water in just behind the axl and kept filling to get to 95kg nose weight, ended up with about 10kg of water.

So took a fair few hours but managed it

I think I have about 5kg at the very back of the caravan which I assume isn't too bad and not likely to cause

Seems a good outcome. If 5kg is all that stands between you and snaking you would be on very thin ice given your loading approach.

 

[Newtonian]

Seems a good outcome. If 5kg is all that stands between you and snaking you would be on very thin ice given your loading approach.

Yep I didn't tow it but I didn't do much more than I normally would in terms of loading apart from putting electrical cable right at the back and them adding 10kg of added weight just behind axl.

I don't experience any snaking, just want to have the wheel in the front permanently and not have to keep moving it in and out all the time.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I checked today and we have a 95amp hour battery, which seems overkill as we never use the motor mover apart from a little straighting up and always on ehu

So my starting nose weight with everything stripped out and the tyre and the gas bottle in the front was 110kg

With some light bits at the very back locker on ground (awning carpet washing line) and then one heavier item (electrical cable)

Then porch awning just behind axl (8kg) and tool bag (10kg) and the wheel lock and alko lock.

I then put the water but with water in just behind the axl and kept filling to get to 95kg nose weight, ended up with about 10kg of water.

So took a fair few hours but managed it

I think I have about 5kg at the very back of the caravan which I assume isn't too bad and not likely to cause snaking?

As I have said Adria caravans do not have a reputation of being difficult tow, so I'd be fairly certain you have plenty of scope to consider moving mass towards the rear of the caravan to reduce the nose load.

If 5kg end load is enough to cause the outfit to become unstable at normal towing speeds, then I'd suggest there is something very wrong with either the way you have loaded the caravan or there's some possible fault with the geometry of the caravans axles or suspension.

I'm also mindful of the fact a new caravanner may never have experienced instability whilst towing, so you may not appreciate how an outfit will feel as it approaches the threshold of instability. Consequently you have no reference point. Towing a trailer and especially a caravan can change the feel of a car quite dramatically, and yet it's actually performing within normal safety limits. Now obviously I can't tell you if that is your situation or not, but based on what you have told us, and wider field of experience, I do wonder if you are misreading the signs you are noticing.

Ultimately its you that needs to know the limits of your outfit. There are several interactive elements that lead up to instability, but the one common and very significant factor is speed. Kinetic Energy (KE) is acquired by your outfit through the virtue of its weight and velocity, KE builds up as difference in speed is squared. Consequently the best way to prevent an outfit from becoming unstable is to keep speed and mass as small as possible.

If you begin to detect the onset of instability, Gently slow down, the best advice is not to use the brakes until you are back in full control, and when it's safe to do so pull over and address the loading of the caravan before restarting your journey. Remember speed limits are limits ,not targets, so if you are having to travel significantly slower pull over from time to time to allow other road user past.