Nose Weight Help..

[picklesthecat]

Hi,

I brought my first caravan, an Abbey Freestyle Caravan this year. Van has been super but I have a question about nose weight..

In order to get the van's nose weight to 75/85kg (the weight for my two cars) I need to remove the battery and the gas bottles from the front of the van and place in the rear on the floor. I'm not carrying anything heavy in the front of the van (only some bedding and some clothes).

Is this normal? Am I loading the van wrong?

Any help advice would be much appreciated..

Thanks

 

[Ewan_5130997]

hi

Dont think your doing anything wrong. I need a weight of 70kg for my car, but even lying empty my Bailey Ranger has a nose weight of over 85kg.

I can leave the gas in front, but have to put the spare wheel, awning etc at the back

 

[Lutz]

Even if the caravan is excessively nose heavy, the gas bottles should only be moved to the rear if they can be secured adequately to prevent them being thrown about in the event of an accident. If you are travelling abroad they may be carried only in the space provided. If proper noseweight cannot be achieved by appropriate redistribution of the stuff that you normally have on board the caravan, your only option is to add ballast behind the axle (bearing in mind that you mustn't exceed the MTPLM).

 

[Steve L]

I would certainly leave the gas bottle in it's correct storage position.

My van is heavey on the nose weight and to counteract that I store the awning in the rear bunk room and have all the water containers in there too. I also travel with the cassette flush water tank full. This then gives me the correct nose wieght.

Steve L.

 

[Ewan_5130997]

The handbook for my Bailey Ranger says not to travel with water in the flush tank as it may spash out and damage panelling/frame etc.

 

[glyn davies]

I don't know if you are doing the same as I used to do until I checked with Coachman. I bought a new 'van and couldn't get the noseweight down to 75 kgs. I was told I should never travel with water in the heated storage tank at the front for, apart from the weight penalty, I was told quite catagorically that the clamps on the water pipes were not fail safe and if they went during travelling, I would end up with a flooded interior.

 

[Lee_5117471]

Try not to counter heavy nose weight by moving weight to the rear of the van, This can cause a dumbell effect and make the van unstable.

Move the weight over the axle or nearer to the axle.

You know how something is easier to lever the further you are away from the pivot, well the gas bottles are having a bigger lever the further away from the axle.

Try putting the gas bottle in the car. Do you need two bottles?

Is you spare wheel in the locker? Can that go over the axle or in the towcar? and the leisure battery is another lump too.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Pickles.

I must add a warning to the advice that Lee has given regarding carrying the gas bottles in the car.

DONT DO IT! it is very dangerous and illegal.

The gas bottle(s) must always be stored, transported and used in the upright position to minimise the possibility that liquefied gas might escape.

They must also have good ventilation around them to allow any esacpe of gas to disipate.

I have seen the damage that an incoreectly managed bottle of gas can do. The gas is heavier than air, so if it is in the car it will fill the footwells around your feet. It only needs to be mixed to about 7% gas to 93% air to create an exlosive mixture, which can be ignited by a single park from almost any electrical switch or contact in the car.

Gas bottle should always be carried and secured in the fitting provide in the caravan.

I do concure that only taking one bottle will make balancing the noseweight easier.

 

[WatsonJohnG]

I bought a new noseweight gauge recently and was pleased to see that the old one had been reading "too heavy"

I got a reading of 85kg with the new gauge and this seemed ideal as the car is rated at 100kg

I found out last week that the gauge was giving a false reading and the old bathroom scales went right round the clock 20st+.

On returning the gauge I was offered a new one and that was discovered to be locked solid and registered zero all the time.

A third one seemed OK and tallied with bathroom scales but now even with weight placed at the rear and only two Camping Gaz bottles plus aquaroll in the front I am struggling to get the noseweight weight down.

We have the Senator and our friends have the Pageant both fixed rear beds and we weighed his noseweight yesterday and that was way over the max on the gauge.(That was before he put the chairs in the front!)

Our fixed bed space is full but my friend has the old belief that you should not load behind the axle and then wonders why he has poor traction on grass !!

If its Ok to have a fridge,wardrobe and toilet at the end in some 2 berths then sensible loadin at the rear on a trial and error/suck it and see basis is all that is left to get the outfit legal.

 

[JohnI.Stephen]

John (L):

Well you have worried me. I always carry the extra (full) 6kg Propane gas bottle strapped with a seatbelt in one of the rear seats of the Sorento. I always double check that the gas is securely off; but, from what you are saying, this is actually illegal :-(

I really wouldn't want to try to place it in the front hold of the caravan as this would increase the nose-weight significantly. Where else can I reasonable secure the spare bottle whilst touring?

Thanks

John

 

[WatsonJohnG]

Being a simple soul I wonder how are you supposed legally to get the gas bottle home from the dealer

People who use gas room heaters also have to get the bottle from the supplier to home.

Avondales have a locker that is not at the front so it should be possible to replicate that in extreme cases (with adequate ventilation to the outside of course)

 

[Damian]

I have read some pretty scary stuff in my time, but some of the stories on here take some beating.

Travelling with a full 6kg propane bottle inside the car, strapped in by a seatbelt, which was never designed to be a gas bottle strap, and in the event of an accident, the thought of that weight bottle being propelled forward at 40, or 50 or 60 mph and its massive increase in latent weight is terrifying, never mind the end result, not that there would be much left of the poor soul seated in front of the bottle. I would have said person, but soul would be more appropriate as they would without doubt be dead.

Perhaps those who think it is safe to do this kind of thing should put an itinerary of their movements on the site to allow those of us who wish to remain mortal a little longer to take alternative routes to them

 

[Guest]

Let's not get carried too much overboard. Carrying gas bottles in the car as a regular part of your trip is obviously not a sensible idea, and yes, the Police may decide to take action against you if they stop you. However, collecting a gas bottle from the Calor facility and returning to your home is another matter, unless Calor will do deliveries?? I put the bottle in the floor behind the front seat and move the seat back aganst it so it is jammed in. Yes, if my car rolls over things will fly about, but I don't plan on doing that every day.

As far as nose weight issues are concerned i am looking at getting one of the new BP?Truma gas bottles which are significantly lighter than the Calor steel versions. I am also only ging to carry one in future as I find that with electric on most sites one cylinder easily lasts a whole season.

 

[Lee_5117471]

I have read some pretty scary stuff in my time, but some of the stories on here take some beating.

Travelling with a full 6kg propane bottle inside the car, strapped in by a seatbelt, which was never designed to be a gas bottle strap, and in the event of an accident, the thought of that weight bottle being propelled forward at 40, or 50 or 60 mph and its massive increase in latent weight is terrifying, never mind the end result, not that there would be much left of the poor soul seated in front of the bottle. I would have said person, but soul would be more appropriate as they would without doubt be dead.

Perhaps those who think it is safe to do this kind of thing should put an itinerary of their movements on the site to allow those of us who wish to remain mortal a little longer to take alternative routes to them

I have been guilty before of having an empty car and using the caravan like a trailer, even hanging all my clothes in the closet. BUT that was when I was a newbie and I have toured many years since then.

I omitted to mention that I pack the rear of my estate and that my Volvo has tie down points therefore the gas bottle is secure.

I am sorry that I assumed everyone would use common sense and not leave a bottle rolling around in a car.

Perhaps the other safer otion is to purchase those load bars to fit on your van and stop the movement of loads.

I upturn my collapsing table from the largest dinette, place it over the axle area of the floor, and the gas bottle (15Kg) rests between the legs and the base of the galley.

In conclusion, use 1 7.5 Kg bottle and stored in allocated place.

and move other things to acheive nose weight.

In the summer I rarely use gas, heck I'm paying for hookup so use a kettle for washing up or go for a walk and a chat in the dish washing room.

These suggestions are from personal experience, no guarantee is inferred or implied. Should you choose to follow any of my advise you do so at your own risk and remember to use your common sense.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John I. Stephen

Firstly, I am sorry if my contribution frightened you. but in the light of your last posting, perhaps you needed to be made aware of the dangers.

The Gas Safety Installation & use regulations in conjunction with the Corgi ACOPS and the Health & Safety requirements clearly require the owner and user of gas bottles must comply with the regulations. It is most likely that any prosecution would be follow an incident, but that does not mean you should ignore the law or act recklessly. (any conviction pursued under H&S law is criminal rather than civil)

Simply on safety grounds, it concerns me greatly that you are prepared to carry an LPG bottle in the close confines of a car. A small leak could change the lives of you or your family.

I do not know what your personal preferences and needs are but do you really need to carry two LPG bottles, - These days with mains hook-ups the need for gas is much reduced, and many people will tell you they can survive a couple of weeks on one bottle. If you are sure you need two bottles, consider obtaining one at your destination rather than taking it with you.

LPG is a wonderful fuel when it is used properly and safely. But sadly I have had to examine and report on situations where unsafe practices have resulted in severe injuries, usually through ignorance of the dangers.

 

[JohnI.Stephen]

Hello John I. Stephen

Firstly, I am sorry if my contribution frightened you. but in the light of your last posting, perhaps you needed to be made aware of the dangers.

The Gas Safety Installation & use regulations in conjunction with the Corgi ACOPS and the Health & Safety requirements clearly require the owner and user of gas bottles must comply with the regulations. It is most likely that any prosecution would be follow an incident, but that does not mean you should ignore the law or act recklessly. (any conviction pursued under H&S law is criminal rather than civil)

Simply on safety grounds, it concerns me greatly that you are prepared to carry an LPG bottle in the close confines of a car. A small leak could change the lives of you or your family.

I do not know what your personal preferences and needs are but do you really need to carry two LPG bottles, - These days with mains hook-ups the need for gas is much reduced, and many people will tell you they can survive a couple of weeks on one bottle. If you are sure you need two bottles, consider obtaining one at your destination rather than taking it with you.

LPG is a wonderful fuel when it is used properly and safely. But sadly I have had to examine and report on situations where unsafe practices have resulted in severe injuries, usually through ignorance of the dangers.

Thanks John L; I only wish that other people could reply 'quietly' and more politely rather than comments which suggest that one is crazy. I was not personally aware that a 6kg bottle would somehow have an increased propensity to hurl itself through the air when strapped in by a seat belt. However, I am not prepared to argue the point or even risk it again.

Do I need the second bottle at all when touring? I am not sure really. Our main bottle is still half full and, as you say, I can almost replace on site if I need to; fair enough. Thanks for the advice.

John

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello again, John I. Stephen

Thank you for your reply, I am very consious that when replying to threads on a forum like this, I have no way of knowing what level of competence or experince others have. As a result I always try to offer good advice, in a non confontational way.

In addition others do not know my competences, so I always try to back up statements with references back to an authorative source. Occasionally I do come unstuck, ( a recent thread regarding Police officers and speeds) - we are all human - but where that happens I accept justified critism and post retractions or ammenments. I also fully accept that other can hold differing opinions to my own. What none of us like or should accept is being bullied and demeaned by a contributor.

Sometimes my answers may be over detailed for some questioners, but I would rather provide the depth of information rather than leave an important area not addressed.

I appreciate your positive comments.

 

[Lee_5117471]

I found this picture on the web, vehicle owner was storing gas bottles in what looks to have been a Renault Espace.

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newphotos/weird/weird572.shtml

 

[Martin_E]

I noticed that a couple of people have asked the question do you really need two bottles? I carry two LPG bottles in the front locker of my Senator Arizona only because it has a Truma twin auto changer on it and when I picked the van up the guy giving me the tour of the does and don'ts said never run the system with just one bottle attached, now I wouldn't know if that was the correct advice or not but would be interested to know if anyone else has been told this.

Martin "E"

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Martin,

The Truma automatic gas bottle change over system should have non-return valves in both regulators, These are necessary to enable you to change the empty bottle. So in theory you should be able to run on one bottle, BUT as with all things mechanical, the NRV could develope leaks, especially with increasing age.

There is nothing to prevent one of the regulators from being removed, and keeping it as a spare. If you do remove a regulator, please make sure the pipework is sealed correctly. If in any doubt plese use a competent fitter.

 

[Martin_E]

Thanks John,

Would that not mean that the gauge would have to be changed as well as it has a green sector for the left hand bottle and a red sector for the right hand bottle then red on one regulator and green on the other to match the gauge.

If that makes sense to you?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Martin.

The guage is not essential to the operation of the regulator. Its function is a visual aid to show when the primary gas (of the auto pair) bottle needs changing when empty.

The guage is fitted to the high pressure side of the regulator and so it only responds to the pressure in the neck of the gas bottle to which it is connected. It does not cause the regulators to change over, it is an independant indicator.

The gauge does not show bottle content only bottle pressure, and becuase LPG bottles contain gas which has been compressed so much that the gas changes phase into its liquid state, The pressure in the bottle will remain almost constant as long as there is any liquefied gas in the bottle, the pressure only changes significantlty when all the liquid phase has been exhausted, and only vapour remains. The pressure does change with temperature, and this can be a problem for butane as it ceases to vapourise at temperatures below 0 centigrade.

 

[Martin_E]

Hi John,

Sorry I somehow missed your reply I think it must have got lost amongst the weeds.Sorry I somehow missed your reply I think it must have got lost amongst the weeds, but what you say does make sense to me.

Martin "E"