Nose wieght

[Stephen_374341239]

Hi all

To get the right nose wieght. Is the following the right way to find out MTPLM 1184Kg x 7% = 82.88 say 83kg.Just need comfirmion I am on the right track here.

Regards Steve

 

[Lutz]

It's best to ignore the 7% formula, especially as the trend to ever heavier caravans means that you would often exceed the noseweight limit set for the towcar. I'd recommend that you check the limits set for car and caravan, respectively, and set the actual noseweight to be just below the lower of these two limits. Certainly don't exceed this value.

 

[Guest]

Lutz is quite correct. However, actually measuring it can be a bit tricky. There is a measure of opinion that a piece of wood jammed inside the towhitch and balancing it on the bathroom scales will do the trick. It will give a measurement, but will not be anywhere near 100% accurate. There are devices on the market that are supposed to do the same thing, but I have heard that even these can give different numbers at different times.

The main 'trick' to get anywhere near accurate is to ensure the caravan is level, and the ground is level. Also pick a day when the wind is not blowing. Also ensure that the gas cylinders are full to the top, as using half empty ones is not going to help either. Maybe others will disagree but my feeling is that if you can get several numbers within about 5% of what your max nose weight should be, then you are not going to be too far out. One other 'field test' is to lift the van yourself by the towhitch. If you can just do so, as a normal able bodied male, then you are lifting about 70 kg of weight. If you cannot move it, then check the front locker seriously. If you have had a heart attack, then don't touch it. Possibly the wife perhaps??? Seriously the other thing is to look at the outfit critically when it is all hitched up. If the back suspension looks as if it is 'gasping', and the van is nose down excessively, then you are probably over the limit, as well as the tow vehicle needing a check up. If it looks fine with plenty of suspension movement available, then you are probably in the 'green zone'.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Stephen,

Scotch lads approach has some merit, but there are two key legal requirements.

Firstly the nose load must not exceed the maximum allowed by the car manufacture., and:

Under laden towing conditions, the tow ball should rest between 350 and 420 mm above the ground measured to the centre of the ball. Note that this is with both the caravan and the car (inc. human cargo)fully ready to tow.

As SL stated this must be carried out on level ground, as any incline will affect the imposed nose load.

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Hi all

What I propose to do at the weekend is load the caravan with every thing we would take away with us. Then level the caravan on flat ground with add of spirit level adjusting the jockey wheel up and down.

With the add of bathroom scales and a peace of cut to size wood under the tow hitch find the nose-weight.

I should be able I think to adjust the weight by moving things a little in th caravan. As I said I have a Bailey Ranger 460/4 MTPLM 1184Kg so I am going for 80 to 83Kg nose weight.Which also is OK for the towcar.

 

[Lutz]

Noseweight should be measured with car and caravan standing on level ground, not necessarily with the caravan level. If the towball height results in the caravan standing nose up or nose down when hitched up to the car, then this is the correct condition under which the noseweight should be measured.

If both the limits specified for car and caravan, respectively, are higher than 7% of the caravan's weight then I would still stick to the lower of the two limits as my target noseweight. The higher the noseweight, the more stable the outfit.

 

[RogerL]

My formula for noseweight is "as heavy as possible BUT not exceeding any of the limits imposed by car, towbar, towball or caravan hitch".

If that's above, equal to or below 7% - so what !

For my previous car it was 75kg as that was the limit on car and towbar - for my present car it's 82kg.

I'd ballast the caravan to get that "maximum" noseweight regardless of whether it was a 1000, 1200 or 1500kg caravan.

 

[xtrailman]

If you can achieve 7%, and the car dynamics are not affected.

Nor the car, towbar, and hitch limits are not exceeded then fine.

If the rig is stable, then thats good enough for me.

However i see no logic in loading a car to its max nose weight limit.

In my experience extra nose weight does not equate to increased stablity.

Many road cars are not happy at there max nose weight, the steering becomes light, the bag end saggeds excessivly. Spring assisters then need to be used.

Each rig has its own prefered set up.

In the case of my last tow car the xtrail, which had a 100kg nose limit, i find the sweet spot to be between 85kg to 90kg.

Over 90kg, the nose weight starts to affect the cars dynamics.

My caravan is max weight 1333kg, so 7% would be 1333*0.07=93.31.

So i am not that far away.

 

[Guest]

All I am trying to do is insert some realism into the discussion. If your towing noseweight is limited to 70 kg and you measure 69 kg by your devices, then you are happy. If you are stopped for a check 5 miles down the road and another measurement indicates 71 kg, you are technically illegal. I am asking if anyone has ever been prosecuted for such an event? I personally suspect that any reasonable Police officer would advise caution and leave it at that, but then again you do not even know that anymore. Also you may check at the start of your trip and be fine, but after several days, and stops away things will have moved around in the van, things added, things removed and your weight has changed slightly.

Until some geek invents a device that measures your noseweight continously under standardised conditions, I feel that we are discussing too vague a criteria. Having a value is fine, but if it is cast in stone to that extent then every one of us will I am sure be illegal in something at some time. I note that articles describing unsafe caravanms only appear in the Press very rarely, so I suspect most owners err on the safe side and try to ensure their outfits are as safe as can reasonably be accepted.

 

[Lutz]

Has anyone actually ever had the noseweight checked by the police? I would think that they only measure if they see an outfit which obviously appears to be over the limit.

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Yes down here in West Sussex last year big random checks being down on A24. Check the outfit tyres,lights weight of van was it overloaded to the max MTPLM weight plate on the caravan. Also checking driving licence that you were legal to tow And much much more all that British police are so good at.

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Yes down here in West Sussex last year big random checks being down on A24. Check the outfit tyres,lights weight of van was it overloaded to the max MTPLM weight plate on the caravan. Also checking driving licence that you were legal to tow And much much more all that British police are so good at.

Sorry, Done on A24

 

[Lutz]

But to measure the noseweight, one would have to unhitch the caravan. Did they really ask drivers to do that?

 

[xtrailman]

Road side checks are usually a result of a high incidence rate?

 

[Rodone]

If the police were checking noseweight's,what were they using to provide an accurate figure? ( A figure that would potentially stand up in a court of law.)

 

[g_374369443]

I do like Rod one's way of thinking, so does anybody know of anyone who has ever been prosecuted because of their nose weight?

I would say the police/Vosa, would be more inclined to offer advice than actually try to prosecute on having an illegal nose weight.... Assuming it wasn't some ridiculously inaccurate figure, that is...

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Hi there

Have obtained some more info for you all. It was the police with the highways agency and VOSA who assisted during the operation with weighing and inspecting the outfits. In our local press.

 

[Stephen_374341239]

Hi again

If your The Caravan Club members have a look at November 2008 issue Page 22 Operation Velop 2? very interesting reading.