Now here's a pretty pickle - who'll buy a 4x4 now??

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Colinn

Nov 7, 2005
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Ken's iniquitous bid to charge 4x4s (and others) 25 quid a day to drive in London is surely the tip of the iceberg and will inevitably reverberate across the country one way or another.

Anyone want to buy a 4x4??

Those of us who have gone over to 4x4s to tow increasingly heavy caravans are right up the creek!

My caravan has a max towing weight of 1600k and therefore needs a car of around 1800k kerbweight, which rules out most estates.

What I want then is a car weighing around 1800k with emissions below 225g.

All large 4x4s are ruled out and the best compromise I can come up with is a BMW 5 series 2.5/3.0 Diesel estate which has emissions just below 225g, tow hitch limit of 90k and max towing weight 1635-1830k.

Any other suggestions? And if I go for the BM, is the Sport suspension (more of them second hand than the standard SEs), with stiffened lower suspension a no-no, or in fact better for towing??
 
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rayc

Mar 14, 2005
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Colinn, I've got a 2006 4x4 with European emmision level 4 giving 170g/km. On the scale that red Ken has announced I will be in the
 
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RogerL

Nov 6, 2005
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If large vehicles, whether 4x4 or not, are made less uneconomic to own then caravan manufacturers will simply revert to building smaller, lighter, caravans.

They only build large, heavy, caravans now because of the popularity of large vehicles for towing.
 
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Steven_374224300

Sep 19, 2006
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Fortunatly for me, I am about to sell the Range Rover and get a company Nissan Navara or Mitsubisi L200.

Both of these will tow our caravan, and the Mitsubisi has the latest Euro IV engine.

I will be checking the Nissan on Saturday before I make my final decision.

Motorists are always subject to tax, tax and more tax.

If you think you are immune with your small Nissan Micra, Smart car, etc, think again. It will eventually come to you, when the gas guzzlers have been taxed off the roads.

Steven.
 
Lutz

Lutz

Mar 14, 2005
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With more widespread introduction of ESP+ and other technical developments, towing will become quite safe even at a 100% weight ratio so, sooner or later, the 85% recommendation will become a thing of the past. This will open up the possibility of heavier caravans in many cases without the need for a 4x4.
 
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CliveV

Mar 14, 2005
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As of next week my V8 Discovery will be dual fuel running on LPG. Once I have the log book updated by the DVLA I can drive it thro' Red Ken's Urban Republic with no charge at all!

Better still if I borrow my friends 110 Defender, that also runs on LPG, not only can I drive thro' the CC area at no charge but legaly use the bus lanes as well because of the number of seats it has.

Don't moan at the rules - USE THEM!!
 
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Mikey1

Nov 4, 2004
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Its not just aimed at 4x4's Its all high emmission cars ie a 2.0 Petrol Espace(nice people carrier)will pay
 
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CliveV

Mar 14, 2005
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I loved it when Ming the Mirthless Lib Dem leader was cornered at their conference and tackled on the fact that the Lib Dems proposed "4x4 Car tax" hike would catch the Mondeo driver as well!

The negative response they received seems to have made them have a bit of a re-think.

The good news about the congestion charge is that I now very rarely go up to town. Most business is conducted electronically now anyway and with video conferencing who needs to travel to "attend" a meeting.
 
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Pelyma1

Mar 14, 2005
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I had a brochure/magazine from LR today telling me to buy a 9 seater Defender 110 SW and it will be CG exempt!! I'm afraid 4x4 hatred is the new foxhunting for some. On a more positive note in the news today is a BMW that runs on hydrogen, but using it in an internal combustion engine. When burning the hydrogen it is zero emission rated. Only problem is the hydrogen produces more co2 to produce than a petrol engine does :( But apparently it can be produced by wind and solar power (although at present this is 4x more expensive to produce) but it does seem the way forward
 
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Val & Frank

May 12, 2006
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Not many people tow vans around big cities so it should not make a difference to caravanners !!!. Still Ken won't be around for much longer, the debacle of London winning the Olympic bid will be coming home to roost very very shortly.

Val & Frank.

ps Our local council have just voted to increase the runway length, so that we can have more and bigger planes flying into Aberdeen. The mind boggles, Reduce ReUse Recyle is on the side of every council vehicle in Aberdeen. I wonder how many council vehicles will incurr the extra charges?? and then see the Council Tax rise.
 
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GrahamW

Jun 7, 2005
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Here's an interesting one!!!!!

On the vehicle's my company supply, there is an option on having a Regeneration system fitted on Diesel machines.

This basically collects the nasties out of the exhaust and retain them within a matrix. Periodically you "regenerate" the system by plugging it into the mains, this burns off the nasty bits with surprisingly very little effect.

As most are aware the "dirt" out of exhausts are mainly the result of incomplete combustion, the regeneration units pump air into the regeneration process as required in order to achieve as near as possible complete combustion therefore the "exhaust" from the regen unit is (currently) deemed to be virtually non polluting.

When these systems first appeared 5 or six years ago regeneration took quite a long time (say 3 to 4 hours) now with modern systems this is down to minutes.

My point is that technology will always triumph over brain dead polititians.
 
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CliveV

Mar 14, 2005
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Interesting post graham.

Sorry to those who are no doubt used to my rabitting on about LPG but it may be of interest that by fitting an LPG system "in tandem" with a diesel engine you get much the same effect as graham describes.

The only difference is that the more complete combustion achieved by the addition of metered amounts of LPG to the diesel/air mixture provides better power and cleaner emissions.

So here the LPG does not substitute for the diesel as it does in a petrol vehicle, it just improves the efficiency of a diesel engine by dramatically improving the burn characteristics.

The Australians have been doing it for years and the systems are now available in the UK.
 
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cooky1

May 18, 2006
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Anyone know anything about Bioethanol an an alternative fuel? I think it was featured on 5th Gear last week, and there are plans to build a new Bioethanol plant not far from where I live.
 
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RickyLionheart

Jul 4, 2006
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Global warming is with us and that is a fact, we have all got our part to play in combating it, we cannot just sit back and let it happen.

I am not going to start quoting facts and figures, just google "global warming" and read about what is going on right under our noses, do not bury your heads in the sand.

If by taxation, congestion charges or by whatever means we can reduce 4x4 ownership in this country it has got to be a good thing
 
Damian

Damian

Moderator
Mar 14, 2005
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Ricky, you say

"just google "global warming" and read about what is going on right under our noses, do not bury your heads in the sand."

Then go on to say about reducing 4x4's, but you are missing the point, it is NOT just 4x4's which the charges are aimed at, it will include a great many non 4x4 vehicles as well.

All the current excess charges, such as different road tax bands, the proposed increase in the Congestion Charge, are based on vehicle emissions, not on what kind of drivetrain they are using.

To state what you did is purely argumentative and the first step in turning a sensible debate into a war of words, which if the past is anything to go by, means this topic will end up in the bin along with all the previous ones.
 
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GrahamW

Jun 7, 2005
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Ricky

You will start Clive off if you're not careful; if you had substituted "high polluting vehicles" with 4x4 ownership it would have been less controversial.

Your post incorrectly suggests that 4x4 are the only vehicles with pollute where as this is true of many non 4x4 vehicles also.
 
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Val & Frank

May 12, 2006
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Borneo and Sumatra Forrest Fires

The 1997 fires released 2.67 billion tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

This puts Ken Congestion Charge into perspective, It's a TAX and nothing else. Ken is just waging his own little class war, sad really. If we are to tackle GW lets do it properly and not this nibbling at the edges stuff. Tax wrapped in a Green wrapper just won't work.

Val & Frank
 
Lutz

Lutz

Mar 14, 2005
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Anyone know anything about Bioethanol an an alternative fuel? I think it was featured on 5th Gear last week, and there are plans to build a new Bioethanol plant not far from where I live.
Click to expand...
Bioethanol has been around in South America for quite some time and is starting to make inroads into Europe now. It's THE thing in Sweden (all new Fords and Saabs are bioethanol suitable) and the petrol station up the road from me has just opened up one pump with bioethanol at the equivalent of 55p a litre.
 
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