observations on caravan weights

[stevecritchlow]

As a reasonably experienced caravaner, in that I did it for years with my parents before getting my own van, I was pretty aware of factors like ensuring the car was heavier than the laden van, the 85% rule, and sensible loading of the van by keeping loads low, over the axle etc.

However, I'd like to share a couple of recent "discoveries" and see what other think. When you think about it, the maximum permissable load is a pretty arbitary figure, in that it doesn't really exsist. Seriously, I do not take alot of stuff with me when I go away, I don't have a barbeque and big gas bottle, I don't take picnic benches, kids bikes etc. I recently decided to actually take my van to the weigh bridge and was shocked to be slightly exceeding the vans quoted maximum permissable load. I left feeling that so many other vans out there must be overloaded. I know most readers on this page will pay careful attention to the max loads when they chose a van and car but how many ever actually measure it? I would suggest you should.

In a similar vein, I recently decided to measure the noseweight on the van. I have always loaded my van sensibly with some knowledge of how best to do it, but since buying a saloon towcar the van looked a bit low on the front so I was inspired to measure noseweight for the first time. Again I was really shocked. The van comes with a great big gas locker but I had to move nearly everything out of it to acheive 75kg and that is with all my awning and other tackle at the back of the van balancing it. I now only have one small gas bottle and a few light items such as toilet chemcial and electricity cables in there. Again I suspect many readers are sensible enough to load there van thoughtfully, but how many actaully measure the noseweight? It made a real difference to the easy of towing and percieved stability. I would really recommend you do. I can see no way people can have two heavy gas bottles in there and acheive the noseweight. My van is from one of the UKs biggest manufacturers, not an oddity, so I suspect many other would have similar findings.

Steve

 

[Guest]

We check the nose weight every time we load up and move off. The caravan mainly has the same stuff in the same place, but we always check!

If you are reasonably experienced, why have you not been checking for safety before?

 

[Lutz]

First of all, the maximum permissible load of the caravan is not an arbitrary figure at all but the maximum that the manufacturer will technically allow, based on tests and the chassis specification.

I must admit I don't often measure noseweight but experience has shown that 75kg is the maximum I can comfortably lift when hitching up by hand. OK, if I haven't had a good breakfast it may only be 65 to 70 kg but that's close enough. I certainly wouldn't achieve 100kg without a serious backache.

 

[Guest]

I think you need to get in the gym Lutz

Our nose weight gauge lives in the front locker, we just pop it in place before we hitch up. In an old van we had the awning framework could put the nose weight out if placed in the wrong place so we now always check.

We tow at fair speeds so have a routine of always having everything in its place and secured, tyres and running gear checked along with nose weight before we head off.

 

[stevecritchlow]

First of all, the maximum permissible load of the caravan is not an arbitrary figure at all but the maximum that the manufacturer will technically allow, based on tests and the chassis specification.

I must admit I don't often measure noseweight but experience has shown that 75kg is the maximum I can comfortably lift when hitching up by hand. OK, if I haven't had a good breakfast it may only be 65 to 70 kg but that's close enough. I certainly wouldn't achieve 100kg without a serious backache.

What I meant by arbitary was that people should not assume the caravan plus their load equals the MPL, they should take the time to actually measure their laden van as they might be surprised.

 

[Rioja]

I have posted on this issue before as I experienced a collapsing suspension over my off side caravan wheel. I never thought that I was overloaded either but was surprised to find that when I took it to a weighbridge I was over by a few kilos. The real problem lies with the manufacturers, both with misleading figures and poor design. The manufacturer quotes the basic weight and doesn't include what I would consider necessary weight, ie batteries, gas bottles etc. I guess the excuse would be that there are different sizes of these extras, so weight varies.When things like these and spare wheels are taken into account, plus full water tanks, the weight allowance for everything else has often dropped to a fairly small amount.

When these factors are combined with the placement in the van design you really do get problems. All the heavy stuff is over my off side wheel. Hence the problem I had. This has been fixed with repair, stiffening the problem area. ALKO said they provide trailers to specifications requested but could upgrade the performance if necessary. So why don't manufacturers do so ?

In actual fact I have had the same model of van for 20 years, never had a problem before and am perfectly happy with the stability of the outfit on the road. I tow with an estate car which always has most of the extras in the back like awnings, waste tanks, extra booze supply etc.

There is no way I can achieve the 75kg noseweight if I have 2 gas bottles and a sparewheel in the front locker. Without giving a reason for my enquiry, I asked a dealership salesman if the latest model had space for two bottles and the spare wheel and he assured me thay had and that of course I could take them with me when towing. When I revealed the reason he said of course he always emptied the hot water tank and moved the contents of the front drawers and lockers into the back of his towing vehicle. Ok, I could empty the water, though not many do, but moving everything out of drawers and cupboards.I don't think so.Besides, it was still over the nose weight when I tried it out of interest.

I could counter balance the noseweight by adding the awning to the rear of the van, but in my opinion, not only does that make me over the Max loading weight but makes the outfit more likely to wag it's tail.

Basically, as long as you are reasonable level, slightly nose down and the towing weight is greater than the trailer I have found no problems at all. I always towed at speeds in excess of the speed limit too when I didn't have concerns over fuel economy as I have now ! The rare times I have noticed anything other tha n 100% stability is in strong cross winds ( M6 Solway Firth area is a classic) so you slow down.

So in summary I think it's near impossible to achieve the figuresyou are expected to but it's no reason for total negligence. I am sure the biggest culprits are larger and longer 4 berth vans which are loaded to the roof with awnings, bikes, sun loungers etc etc or those who tow large and long vans and simply go too fast and when the tail wags they loose it. There are so many fixed bed layouts that are being used as 2 berth tourers that are so large the cupboards and drawers may well be half empty giving the impression that there is loads of spare weight capacity. This profile vanner often doesn't want an awning either ( they like easy vanning) so the weight in the towing vehicle is minimal. Thats when they run into problems.

 

[Guest]

We have two twin axle vans so family and friends can come caravanningwith us. We kept our older Bailey as its still like new though it nearly ten years old.

Both vans just need a little thought re placing the loads to meet the nose weight. No need to empty drawers or anything like that and its been the same with our earlier vans. Final balance often achieved by the positioning of the awning and framework near the axles.

With a new van we keep the heavy stuff near/above the axles and the lightest stuff goes near the front and rear and then we jugle it around with nose weight guage in place to get the nose weight correct. And then the gear lives there from then on. Final balance depending on what we have purchased can be achieved by re positioning the awning and framework.

 

[Lutz]

I think you need to get in the gym Lutz

Our nose weight gauge lives in the front locker, we just pop it in place before we hitch up. In an old van we had the awning framework could put the nose weight out if placed in the wrong place so we now always check.

We tow at fair speeds so have a routine of always having everything in its place and secured, tyres and running gear checked along with nose weight before we head off.

I did say lift "comfortably", Euro. I think it's about commensurate with my age.

 

[Colinn]

what i find amazing is that so few caravanners bother to check their noseweight at all, let alone every journey. and yet, it is illegal to exceed either the car's limit or the van's, let alone the personal safety issue.

anyone carrying a full gas bottle and a spare wheel in the front locker of a van that possibly has the battery and water heater located at the front (like mine), must know that these items alone are going to eat up the best part, if not more, of the usual 75k limit of most mid-size cars.

perhaps some people prefer not to know...!

 

[Val & Frank]

Rioja,

"There are so many fixed bed layouts that are being used as 2 berth tourers that are so large the cupboards and drawers may well be half empty giving the impression that there is loads of spare weight capacity. This profile vanner often doesn't want an awning either ( they like easy vanning) so the weight in the towing vehicle is minimal

That's us,

but we do carry EHU cable, Sun Loungers/Chairs,Clothes,Shoes etc in the car. Only one Gas Bottle in the front locker plus the Jack. Oh and the car is also full of diesel when we set off. I don't see what else I can do to affect nose weight, it looks like I have what I have. Oh and the TV is also in the Car.

Waste hog and Aquaroll are almost mid caravan, and I always drain the hot and cold water tanks prior to heading off along with the loo flush tank.We carry no food in the caravan, and only basic utensils KFS etc.

ps We do like easy vanning -)

Val & Frank

 

[ColinA]

Have you ever checked the noseweight Frank?

Colin.

 

[Lutz]

I have an 11kg and a 5kg gas bottle plus the spare wheel, jack, and 50 metres of cable in the front locker but don't exceed the specified max. noseweight, so one cannot generalise.

 

[Rioja]

Frank... I'm all for easy caravanning, thats why I don't think I should have to drain the hot water tank or the loo flush water.Easily done but you have to fill them up again too !

Lutz.... How do you do it !? Twin axle ?

 

[Lutz]

No, single axle. Without all that stuff in the locker and the slightly rear of axle inboard tank about

 

[Rioja]

You know you shouldn't have any water in the inboard tank ! That's worse than having it in the hot water heater like I have !!!!

What sort of van are we talking about ? There must be a fair volume of water to counter the weight of the locker contents which must weigh a fair amount.

 

[Rioja]

P.S. I have never attempted to lift the van on to the tow ball even when I was a healthy 35 year old. Would give me an heart attack if I tried it now !

 

[Lutz]

You know you shouldn't have any water in the inboard tank ! That's worse than having it in the hot water heater like I have !!!!

What sort of van are we talking about ? There must be a fair volume of water to counter the weight of the locker contents which must weigh a fair amount.

The inboard water tank is a 40 litre one so when that's about a quarter full, that would be 10 litres or 10kg. As it's not far to the rear of the axle that amount probably only reduces the noseweight by 2 to 3 kg. When the gas bottles are full and the spare wheel in place in the locker I'm getting a noseweight between 50 and 75kg, depending how much other stuff is inside the caravan and where it happens to be stored.

 

[Rod_5041370]

I would hazard a guess that the caravan Lutz owns is not a UK built one but a Continental model which have longer "A" frames.

My single axle Hobby has two 6kg gas bottles and spare wheel in the front locker and has a nose-weight of 29kg which is too light.

To achieve a 70/75kg noseweight I need to carry toilet fluids, the waste water tank, two sacks of charcoal and either a 10 litre can of petrol for the generator or place a plastic box of food and drink on the floor in the front of the caravan.

I regularly check nose-weight and axle loading with a Reich Weight Control.

 

[Rioja]

I would hazard a guess that the caravan Lutz owns is not a UK built one but a Continental model which have longer "A" frames.

My single axle Hobby has two 6kg gas bottles and spare wheel in the front locker and has a nose-weight of 29kg which is too light.

To achieve a 70/75kg noseweight I need to carry toilet fluids, the waste water tank, two sacks of charcoal and either a 10 litre can of petrol for the generator or place a plastic box of food and drink on the floor in the front of the caravan.

I regularly check nose-weight and axle loading with a Reich Weight Control.

Wow ! I would have thought you have even more potential problems than with an overweight one.

 

[Lutz]

Yes, I have a Knaus.

 

[Graham_374228415]

We also like easy caravanning and don't carry much in the van, therefore I was shocked to discover that I was 100k overweight. Moved what we could into the car and went on holiday carefully. On our next trip we weighed everything that went into the van and back to the same weighbridge to find that we were 70k over.

Since then I have been in touch with Lowdams, we have a Hymer, and they are going to weigh it when it goes in in Oct. for its warranty check. I cannot believe that with an allowance of 300k we could possibly be overweight. Hymer include in the base weight 2 gas bottles at 90% 30k, spare wheel 20k, battery 25k, 1/4 tank of fresh water 10k, boiler and cassette water 25k = 110k in total . After allowing for the mover 30k and Omnistor wind out a wning 40k we should still have left over 100k for personal belongings. The nose weight has been okay and no stability problems.